Defining the Left and Right

[Marblehead]

And he came through on his promise.

And let us not forget that it was the peace-loving Democrats who took us to war in Vietnam.

[Marblehead]

Democrats are not peace loving. Obama nope Clinton nope etc...

 

That is the misconception and the great lie being sold to the US population Democrats are left Republicans are right. That is incorrect. Both are right.

 

I'm glad you recognize this.  There are a lot of lies being told.

 

There is a very small faction of left that really do want peace.

 

Well, I really want peace.  I want the world to get its stuff together so that the people have the opportunity be be all that they can be.  And this includes people of all nations.  It would be great if we didn't have to have borders.

 

I doubt our voices will be heard as Trump will increase the killing machine.

 

It's too early for me to make comment to this yet.  For me to be optimistic about this I would have to see Trump put an end to the carnage in the Middle East and get China to put the brakes on North Korea.  It will be a while before show and tell time arrives.

[Brian]

Democrats are not peace loving. Obama nope Clinton nope etc...

 

That is the misconception and the great lie being sold to the US population Democrats are left Republicans are right. That is incorrect. Both are right.

 

There is a very small faction of left that really do want peace. I doubt our voices will be heard as Trump will increase the killing machine.

In your opinion, what are the defining characteristics of the left and the right?

[blackstar212]

In your opinion, what are the defining characteristics of the left and the right?

Left is more tribal and understand that we are whole as a species not individualistic that is a characteristic of the right.

 

The right believes might makes right and individual rights out weigh the group. The right will use society as something to exploit to make themselves have more.

 

The first man who, having fenced in a piece of land, said 'This is mine', and found people naïve enough to believe him, that man was the true founder of civil society. From how many crimes, wars, and murders, from how many horrors and misfortunes might not any one have saved mankind, by pulling up the stakes, or filling up the ditch, and crying to his fellows: Beware of listening to this impostor; you are undone if you once forget that the fruits of the earth belong to us all, and the earth itself to nobody.

 

— Rousseau 1754

[Brian]

I would truly be interested in learning more about your perspective, blackstar212, regarding the distinction between left and right -- more about principles, ideals, objectives and manifestations, for instance. I'm not interested so much in quotes from dead guys as in your own thoughts and feelings. I'm interested in examples (I remember you've mentioned Gandhi) of successful "left" societies, failed "left" societies, successful "right" societies and failed "right" societies, for example. If you are willing/able to put in the time and effort, that is -- I have no right to expect such an endeavor and you have no obligation.

 

EDIT: Fixed a typo

Edited February 14, 2017 by Brian

[blackstar212]

I would truly be interested in learning more about your perspective, blackstar212, regarding the distinction between left and right -- more about principles, ideals, objectives and manifestations, for instance. I'm not interested so much in quotes from dead guys as in your own thoughts and feelings. I'm interested in examples (I remember you've mentioned Gandhi) of successful "left" societies, failed "left" societies, successful "right" societies and failed "right" societies, for example. If you are willing/able to put in the time and effort, that is -- I have no right to expect such an endeavor and you have no obligation.

 

EDIT: Fixed a typo

I do not think there is a left country. Some have implemented more left ideals and are half way successful. Denmark, Canada is ok. They have universal healthcare which IMO is a human right. Iceland is not too bad but all of them have work to do.

 

The societies of the entire left have been overrun by the individualists. There are some successful tribes left in the world. I wonder how long before they are ran off their land in the name of making a corporation more profit?

 

The world is vast right wing and that is why our current world has so many problems. We need harmony and compassion as a species and that should be our very first implementation.

[Marblehead]

Looking for harmony and compassion, are you?

 

They don't sell that here.

[blackstar212]

Looking for harmony and compassion, are you?

 

They don't sell that here.

 

Well that is a shame. That is where we need to start. IMO once that is established everything else will fall into place for the most part.

[MooNiNite]

Trump eased tensions with China, Russia, and Taiwan. 

 

The left wants people to think he is a war monger, racist, and horrible person. 

[MooNiNite]

There are some successful tribes left in the world. I wonder how long before they are ran off their land in the name of making a corporation more profit?

 

Show me anywhere in nature where weakness is not exploited.

 

Show me a weak or old animal that does not get preyed upon. Throughout all of history and throughout all of nature, if you are not worthy then you lose.

 

Your ideals about how the world "should be" are delusional because they do not see reality as it really is. Constant change and flux. 

 

If one does not advance technologically they will be taken advantage of. 

 

This is evolution. 

 

How else could anything evolve?

[MooNiNite]

The land that the 300 tribal people hold, could be used to feed 10,000 people. When this is realized, yes the tribe will be wiped out. 

 

Technology is simply more efficient. 

 

It is tribal belief that they do not own the land, so why would they disagree with a more efficient use of the land for a larger number of people? Especially if they have nothing else to give. 

Edited February 14, 2017 by MooNiNite

[blackstar212]

Show me anywhere in nature where weakness is not exploited.

 

Show me a weak or old animal that does not get preyed upon. Throughout all of history and throughout all of nature, if you are not worthy then you lose.

 

Your ideals about how the world "should be" are delusional because they do not see reality as it really is. Constant change and flux. 

 

If one does not advance technologically they will be taken advantage of. 

 

This is evolution. 

 

How else could anything evolve?

Humans. We are nature and yet we do not feed our elderly to the wild animals we care for them same as for our infants we care for them.

 

My world is factual and follows the true nature of humans a societal animal. It sounds as though you embrace a Spartan view of how the world should work?

 

If a baby shows any defect throw it over the cliff. The elderly the handicapped just send them to a death chamber we cannot have them "draining" the rest of society.

 

Your world is bleak and awful. There is some harmony and compassion already in the human animal, I want more. I also believe that one day this will come. Your ideas of might makes right will vanquish into oblivion. One day it will be true.

[Marblehead]

Well that is a shame. That is where we need to start. IMO once that is established everything else will fall into place for the most part.

 

Yep. 

 

Compassion

 

Frugality

 

Humility.

 

The concepts still exist even after 2500 years.

 

Seems few are listening.

[Brian]

Humans. We are nature and yet we do not feed our elderly to the wild animals we care for them same as for our infants we care for them.

 

My world is factual and follows the true nature of humans a societal animal. It sounds as though you embrace a Spartan view of how the world should work?

 

If a baby shows any defect throw it over the cliff. The elderly the handicapped just send them to a death chamber we cannot have them "draining" the rest of society.

 

Your world is bleak and awful. There is some harmony and compassion already in the human animal, I want more. I also believe that one day this will come. Your ideas of might makes right will vanquish into oblivion. One day it will be true.

How do you feel about abortion and physician-assisted suicide?

[blackstar212]

How do you feel about abortion and physician-assisted suicide?

Abortion God aborts about 10% to 20% of babies. I would personally not talk my daughter into having an abortion. I would try to talk her out of it. Though with her being in her 20's it would be ultimately her decision.

 

Physician-assisted suicide. I am not sure. I do not have a problem with someone wanting to commit suicide but I am not sure that another should become involved due to the possibility that a potential patient could be coerced when they are merely curious.

[Brian]

Abortion God aborts about 10% to 20% of babies. I would personally not talk my daughter into having an abortion. I would try to talk her out of it. Though with her being in her 20's it would be ultimately her decision.

 

Physician-assisted suicide. I am not sure. I do not have a problem with someone wanting to commit suicide but I am not sure that another should become involved due to the possibility that a potential patient could be coerced when they are merely curious.

You believe in God? You believe God aborts babies?

[blackstar212]

You believe in God? You believe God aborts babies?

I recognize the multiple manifestations of the one Infinite Source of all manifestation.

 

Miscarriage = abortion

[Brian]

I recognize the multiple manifestations of the one Infinite Source of all manifestation.

 

Miscarriage = abortion

That's an intentional non-answer.You brought God into this but now you tap-dance. OK, we'll leave God out of it

 

Do you think killing babies is one of the hallmarks of a loving and compassionate advanced society?

[blackstar212]

How do you feel about abortion and physician-assisted suicide?

Also to note, I am not sold government should be involved in either of these topics. /shrugs

[Marblehead]

Also to note, I am not sold government should be involved in either of these topics. /shrugs

 

Government should NOT be involved in either.

[blackstar212]

That's an intentional non-answer.You brought God into this but now you tap-dance. OK, we'll leave God out of it

 

Do you think killing babies is one of the hallmarks of a loving and compassionate advanced society?

Is this a rhetorical question? I think you know my answer.

[MooNiNite]

Humans. We are nature and yet we do not feed our elderly to the wild animals we care for them same as for our infants we care for them.

 

My world is factual and follows the true nature of humans a societal animal. It sounds as though you embrace a Spartan view of how the world should work?

 

If a baby shows any defect throw it over the cliff. The elderly the handicapped just send them to a death chamber we cannot have them "draining" the rest of society.

 

Your world is bleak and awful. There is some harmony and compassion already in the human animal, I want more. I also believe that one day this will come. Your ideas of might makes right will vanquish into oblivion. One day it will be true.

 

Well then you are completely ignoring how humans have completely dominated this planet. 

[MooNiNite]

Secondly you are destroying true freedom. Which is a free market where competition and spirit is able to create the best results and the lowest prices, and the conscious of the people promote the best products. Corruption and greed are destroyed in a free market, because someone else will exploit it. 

 

Your lack of faith in the people and fear is what causes you to choose universal health care, which are run by entities outside of the people's choice and are imposing on the people reducing their freedom and increasing costs dramatically.

 

Premiums raised 80%..... 

 

Nothing is free, not even health care, but if you let it have freedom in the open market, prices will be a whole lot cheaper and results a whole lot better, and technology a whole lot more advanced.

 

When multiple companies are able to do research to compete, more advancements are made. 

[MooNiNite]

Your world is bleak and awful. There is some harmony and compassion already in the human animal, I want more. I also believe that one day this will come. Your ideas of might makes right will vanquish into oblivion. One day it will be true.

 

I believe in compassion and the goodness inherent in man. That is why i choose freedom and the open market. You choose bondage. 

[blackstar212]

Secondly you are destroying true freedom. Which is a free market where competition and spirit is able to create the best results and the lowest prices, and the conscious of the people promote the best products. Corruption and greed are destroyed in a free market, because someone else will exploit it. 

 

Your lack of faith in the people and fear is what causes you to choose universal health care, which are run by entities outside of the people's choice and are imposing on the people reducing their freedom and increasing costs dramatically.

 

Premiums raised 80%..... 

 

Nothing is free, not even health care, but if you let it have freedom in the open market, prices will be a whole lot cheaper and results a whole lot better, and technology a whole lot more advanced.

 

When multiple companies are able to do research to compete, more advancements are made.

As soon as you say market it is no longer free.