Defining the Left and Right

[Aetherous]

8 hours ago, CityHermit! said:

Again, it's just very odd that posters could be so detached from anything regarding China yet debate over a single US election passionately enough as to virtually be at each others throats over it, long time members who seem to know each other fairly well nonetheless. It just does not add up to me.

 

Do you live in China, or something? To me, it seems like American citizens discussing US politics is completely normal, and to have an interest in Chinese politics would be more of a fringe interest for them.

 

8 hours ago, CityHermit! said:

If there were no qualms about it and no risk to anyone, I would have a lot to say more about China. Maybe I could start a "talk Xi Jinping" thread.

I'm sure you could, I would be moderately interested.

[CityHermit!]

7 hours ago, windwalker said:

 

If you were Chinese or  live / lived there you would know. The answer would be obvious.

 

As to the Trump thread. 

 

An interesting thread that can be proven or disproven regarding the facts as presented by users with different ideologies,  worldview's.

 

One could look at it as a presentation of what is verses what is thought to be or wanted to be.

 

That's why I figured better not to add risk for them. Even if they're not posting anything that sounds seditious, if I or others did I am concerned it could come back to them or at least made it harder for them to access the site.

 

[CityHermit!]

9 minutes ago, Aetherous said:

 

Do you live in China, or something? To me, it seems like American citizens discussing US politics is completely normal, and to have an interest in Chinese politics would be more of a fringe interest for them.

 

I'm sure you could, I would be moderately interested.

No I don't. But again, nearly 500 pages of Trump, a thread added to every day. I don't see the same level of activity for Daoist topics on a Daoist forum. I wouldn't think it odd if this were a forum on US politics. To say that Chinese politics would be a fringe item to me suggests Westerners wanting the gifts of emigrating Daoists without appreciating their sacrifice. Obliviousness at best and ungratefulness/disrespect/thievery at worst. I think I will make that thread, though it will have to be a day when I have more free time.

[Aetherous]

1 hour ago, CityHermit! said:

To say that Chinese politics would be a fringe item to me suggests Westerners wanting the gifts of emigrating Daoists without appreciating their sacrifice. Obliviousness at best and ungratefulness/disrespect/thievery at worst.

 

I would understand your sentiment to some extent, probably on the obliviousness end of the spectrum, if it were Chinese historical context. But modern Chinese politics? We just don't see eye to eye at all in this judgment of yours.

[CityHermit!]

On ‎6‎/‎11‎/‎2018 at 11:01 AM, Aetherous said:

 

I would understand your sentiment to some extent, probably on the obliviousness end of the spectrum, if it were Chinese historical context. But modern Chinese politics? We just don't see eye to eye at all in this judgment of yours.

Who is we and why is that? It could be said that it's under modern Chinese politics that Taoists in China have suffered the worst, and not just them but all sorts of groups. It also could be said that the conditions of modern Chinese politics were fomented by Western sources as described earlier. So Westerners, not simply Western Taoists, do bear some responsibility that is difficult for anyone to escape from so long as Chinese made products are a crux of economic consumption.

 

I would go as far as to say there is a moral obligation here. My impression is that you would be detached from that notion, so I would ask if not in this case then under what circumstance would you consider there to be responsibility and moral obligation? Before considering any answer that suggests Taoism being detached from morality I want to point out that compassion is one of the three treasure as described in Laozi. Frugality is another, which can be mentioned in regards to earlier said economic consumption.

 

Now these same questions are open for anyone to answer or discuss, but since you Aetherous said "we" and there has been no further responses, I might venture to think you are representing the others here.

 

Another thing Aetherous, it seems that it was you who posted on another thread comments about glp, so you knew what it was yet remained silent about it in this thread after its mention. Perhaps you could explain to your friend joeblast about it, given he seems to be wholly unfamiliar. Would you disagree to my assessment that he might appreciate such a venue?

 

Again, anyone feel free to jump in and take your time as I have a lot of personal obligations that restricts my time here so it may often be the case that I can't respond right away, though I will in all due time.

 

 

[CityHermit!]

For reference:

 

 

[CityHermit!]

One more thing for now, to dispel the notion of modern Chinese politics being a fringe topic and in a manner independent from Taoism, since many posters seem to be so keen on current events then may I also venture to guess that you would have familiarity with the events surrounding the South China Sea as well? It's another thread worthy topic I think I will start. First I better get to that Xi Jinping one.

[Marblehead]

Good thing I have never claimed to be beyond dualities.  I would have been caught in a lie by now.

 

But it is an ideal worthy of reaching out to.

 

[CityHermit!]

2 minutes ago, Marblehead said:

Good thing I have never claimed to be beyond dualities.  I would have been caught in a lie by now.

 

But it is an ideal worthy of reaching out to.

 

I've always enjoyed your posts and can tell you are a very solid figure. I don't find inconsistencies to your approach to things. I myself can't claim any sort of loftiness but I think I've made more than enough mistakes and problems in my life for others besides myself that I feel I should make up for it. Not to mention that I feel that if I didn't have a sense of virtue that I'd get lost in nihilism, and I almost have at more than one point in my life. Without trying to project the same onto others, I feel that I owe Taoism and Taoists very much. It/they saved my life essentially.

[Aetherous]

1 hour ago, CityHermit! said:

Who is we and why is that?

 

We = you and I. I was ending the conversation. I'll try to take some more time reading your recent responses. I encourage you to start a new thread about modern Chinese politics impacting various groups...it seems that it deserves its own space, and at least to me it feels out of place here.

[CityHermit!]

15 minutes ago, Aetherous said:

 

We = you and I. I was ending the conversation. I'll try to take some more time reading your recent responses. I encourage you to start a new thread about modern Chinese politics impacting various groups...it seems that it deserves its own space, and at least to me it feels out of place here.

Must be another one of my honest mistakes, however it was a fair assumption given how quickly I was jumped before when being accused of bias against conservatives. I was half expecting there to be more responses from more people when I had returned after a long week.

 

That would be another thread worthy topic, perhaps multiple threads, and I would start those at some point. However, I have to disagree about these things being out of place in this thread. The thread after all is "Defining the Left and the Right" and I have been posting about this in an expanded and international sense. Discussing left and right in US politics is just too narrow. Discussing China, and regarding international relations at that, is on topic within the context of Hegelian Dialectics that I had mentioned earlier. I cordially asked for comments yet there weren't any. Is it something others are that unfamiliar with? It may be my opinion in saying this but I think that is the jewel that everyone here may be missing out on. 

[Marblehead]

Yes, the concept of "left and right" is a universal concept.  Traditionally, left = conservative and right = liberal.  Or, if you will, conservative = less government and liberal = more government.

 

China decreased its governmental control of the people (became more conservative) and their economy exploded.

 

Why would the American people want more government?  The result will be a further eroding of the economy.

 

[liminal_luke]

There´s an expression that describes someone who doesn`t stint when it comes to spooning sour cream onto her tacos during the annual Cinco de Mayo company picnic and always goes back for seconds on berry pie : we say that such a person eats liberally.   Obama, a consumate liberal, once dined on Vietnamese food with Anthony Bourdain.  Ex-president Bush won`t even eat broccoli -- definitely not a liberal.

 

A conservative is someone who favors the corporate practice of putting noxious chemicals into processed foods to presere or "conserve" them.  Such a person conserves something that really shouldn`t have been made in the first place.

 

So there you have it.  Liberals travel the globe eating delicious ethnic foods; Conservatives make Twinkies.  

Edited June 21, 2018 by liminal_luke

[Marblehead]

I like Twinkies.

 

[Aetherous]

I thought that was kind of funny...but definitely an ethnic food taster here.

[liminal_luke]

32 minutes ago, Aetherous said:

I thought that was kind of funny...but definitely an ethnic food taster here.

 

Yeah, and I`m with Bush about the broccoli.  Maybe my theory doesn`t hold after all.

[zerostao]

On 6/18/2018 at 6:22 PM, CityHermit! said:

One more thing for now, to dispel the notion of modern Chinese politics being a fringe topic and in a manner independent from Taoism, since many posters seem to be so keen on current events then may I also venture to guess that you would have familiarity with the events surrounding the South China Sea as well? It's another thread worthy topic I think I will start. First I better get to that Xi Jinping one.

When China supplants the USA as the lone world superpower sometime between next month and 2050 99% of liberal morality will have vanished, and the left will long for that old tweeting liberal orange dude with the wang haircut. But the economy (Chinese) will be booming, the remnants of the USA may be receiving foreign aid from Africa.

[CityHermit!]

On ‎6‎/‎21‎/‎2018 at 8:15 PM, zerostao said:

When China supplants the USA as the lone world superpower sometime between next month and 2050 99% of liberal morality will have vanished, and the left will long for that old tweeting liberal orange dude with the wang haircut. But the economy (Chinese) will be booming, the remnants of the USA may be receiving foreign aid from Africa.

"When", huh? I say if, a big if at that. The first matter is whether CCP will last that long. I'm not worried about the US' future.

[joeblast]

On 6/21/2018 at 7:27 PM, liminal_luke said:

 

A conservative is someone who favors the corporate practice of putting noxious chemicals into processed foods to presere or "conserve" them.  Such a person conserves something that really shouldn`t have been made in the first place.

 

It could be as easily asserted, and perhaps more robustly - that a conservative would want organic heirloom seeds, so as to stay as close to OG Mother Nature as possible - whereas a Progressive would want to improve upon the strain, genetically modify it to make it resistant to bugs and poisons and all those pesky things that want to eat our food....

[liminal_luke]

3 hours ago, joeblast said:

It could be as easily asserted, and perhaps more robustly - that a conservative would want organic heirloom seeds, so as to stay as close to OG Mother Nature as possible - whereas a Progressive would want to improve upon the strain, genetically modify it to make it resistant to bugs and poisons and all those pesky things that want to eat our food....

 

Yes, but....

 

Liberals are surprisingly conservative when it comes to genetic modification of veggies and pesticides.  The farmer`s market in Portland, Oregon, where I lived for many years, is crawling with organic carrot buying Democrats.

 

Conversely, conservatives are fairly liberal when it comes to shady business practices and putting people`s health at risk if it means bigger profit.

 

Or am I wrong?  If I come to believe that it`s really the conservatives who are championing the movement towards healthy traditional foods and the liberals who are destroying the environment and our wellbeing generally in the name of the dollar, I`ll gladly burn my blue hat.

[joeblast]

17 minutes ago, liminal_luke said:

 

Yes, but....

 

Liberals are surprisingly conservative when it comes to genetic modification of veggies and pesticides.  The farmer`s market in Portland, Oregon, where I lived for many years, is crawling with organic carrot buying Democrats.

 

Conversely, conservatives are fairly liberal when it comes to shady business practices and putting people`s health at risk if it means bigger profit.

 

Or am I wrong?  If I come to believe that it`s really the conservatives who are championing the movement towards healthy traditional foods and the liberals who are destroying the environment and our wellbeing generally in the name of the dollar, I`ll gladly burn my blue hat.

hehe....from my perspective, anyone who's done their homework on veggies...

farmers markets that I go to, well, I have no idea what their beliefs are, because I dont see anyone wearing it on their sleeve

I think the analogy fails here, and could show more distinction smart vs less intelligent, and super rich who make money off of it vs not super rich.  neoprogressivism doesnt really look much different than neoconservatism to me, honestly.  neo could mean new earth order there, and it fits the Cabal nicely enough.

[zerostao]

Not my promised post to this thread. I thought I'd craft it by the 4th, meaning I would have typed it all on the 4th. I do have the main thought and frame for it, so soon ya'll, soon.

meanwhile, just a thought to share

 

Edited July 5, 2018 by zerostao

[Marblehead]

Indeed.  Great Britain did not give America independence.  Our Founding Fathers had to fight for it and some died in the process.  Had they not been allowed to bear arms we would be the American States of Great Britain today.  And we would be worshiping a queen who plays no role in the governing of the people.

 

[Trunk]

@liminal_luke

 you have missed the point. Everything good is on the right. And everything bad is on the left. If you can’t agree to that basic premise then  you will get no agreement  from those on the right at this point.

[Trunk]

https://mobile.twitter.com/ananavarro/status/993545629073838081