Defining the Left and Right

[CityHermit!]

I'll take that as a sign of defeat on your part. Whenever you want to comment about Sutton and not me I'll be here.

[joeblast]

*chuckles* should someone quote a post of yours that's actually worthwhile to give my time to, I'll let you know. 

[CityHermit!]

Just now, joeblast said:

*chuckles* should someone quote a post of yours that's actually worthwhile to give my time to, I'll let you know. 

Oh back so soon, couldn't resist could you?

[ralis]

49 minutes ago, CityHermit! said:

You didn't say explicitly so to begin with let alone in some time. You seem to have gotten quite triggered by comments I made about conspiracy theorists and took it to heart. You responded with youtube videos and assumptions about my background when you know little to nothing about me. I apparently talk a lot but you comment day after day in the Talk Trump thread in long winded and meme ridden posts and antagonize your fellow forum members. You've been on this forum for years and probably doing much of the same whereas for so many years I stayed away from the internet almost completely. Nice try holmes but your techniques are as that of a dime a dozen and I've dealt with dozens as such already.

 

That is precisely why I have for the most part stopped participating in the Trump thread. Ad hominems, racism, misogyny, anti-Semitism and so forth tend to dominate over time. For so called Taoists/spiritual seekers to seek such a low road is preposterous.

[CityHermit!]

4 minutes ago, ralis said:

 

That is precisely why I have for the most part stopped participating in the Trump thread. Ad hominems, racism, misogyny, anti-Semitism and so forth tend to dominate over time. For so called Taoists/spiritual seekers to seek such a low road is preposterous.

I've been reading the thread and I'm well aware of that. It's a shame really. I've seen it much worse on other forums but they don't have any pretenses to avoiding the low road, and the difference between there and here is what would make me have higher expectations and in turn resulting disappointment regarding these topics. Beyond there, there's some unusual similarities and coincidences I've pointed out that others display, or feign, ignorance about and so if no one is going to own up to that so be it, but it's not going away anytime soon.

Edited July 9, 2018 by CityHermit!
grammar edit

[dawei]

Interesting points but missing a major point: Someone can seemingly follow Dao and not be a Daoist.

 

To say what people should or should not be doing is no longer Dao talking but a personal voice, maybe even Confucianism. 

 

This subtle point may be why folks can't accept Trump, suddenly as he has not changed in 50 years...  it is more what they think he should or should not do... this is a personal opinion and not really about Trump on some level.

 

I wonder, what should Dao own up to ?    Seems it is only the minions asking this about the minions...

 

 

[Marblehead]

2 hours ago, CityHermit! said:

Which is why preservation has been a guiding principle for me in all of this. I for one would not let China, or any other nation, have a moment's opening on here. That still doesn't absolve some others on this side. I've said what I have to say about that for now, but it's not over. I don't care whose toes I step on either. The whole point of me visiting those other places was for a potential dead man's switch on another matter, and I don't mind nor will have any difficulty expanding a dead man's switch to encompass all this as well. One last thing I would suggest for Trump to buy himself time, to tell Putin to go fuck himself at the summit.

Hehehe to the last statement.

 

Free trade agreements are good as long as both sides play fair.  Apparently Trump thinks China isn't playing fair.

 

AS long as you don't get personal with me I will stay with you while you gain knowledge to your perspective.

 

You know I am a conservative so that's where I'll be coming from unless I state that I am viewing something from an alternate perspective.

 

And I am a proud American who is not necessarily proud of many of my politicians right now.

 

[ralis]

Just now, dawei said:

Interesting points but missing a major point: Someone can seemingly follow Dao and not be a Daoist.

 

To say what people should or should not be doing is no longer Dao talking but a personal voice, maybe even Confucianism. 

 

This subtle point may be why folks can't accept Trump, suddenly as he has not changed in 50 years...  it is more what they think he should or should not do... this is a personal opinion and not really about Trump on some level.

 

I wonder, what should Dao own up to ?    Seems it is only the minions asking this about the minions...

 

 

 

The Tao is not in regards to an ancient political philosophy, but the natural world, including the cosmos. The mistaken idea that Taoism is an anthropocentric ideology is a belief from the Middle Ages. BTW, I included spiritual belief systems along with the Tao.  Further, the threads in question lack ethical values, in general, from most of the participants. 

 

Your point regarding Trump is not well taken in the least! However, to write a critical essay at this point is futile in that Trump supporters are blinded by propaganda and generally will not listen to well documented reason. History is replete with such examples. Words matter and have deep effects on the human psyche.

[Marblehead]

2 hours ago, joeblast said:

heh.....thats why security experts are still hasing over details of it...

 

security professionals wouldnt be wasting their time analyzing all this stuff if it was fake or entirely unsubstantiated.  my job wouldnt be in the middle of upgrading the BIOSes on 20,000 devices if this stuff was fake or unsubstantiated

Ad let us remember that the CIA is not supposed to be operating on USA soil.

 

I was surprised after installing Windows 10 at how many sub-routines include, likely links, FBI.

 

Spying on our own people because immigration vetting and background checks were apparently eliminated.

 

[ralis]

8 minutes ago, Marblehead said:

Hehehe to the last statement.

 

Free trade agreements are good as long as both sides play fair.  Apparently Trump thinks China isn't playing fair.

 

AS long as you don't get personal with me I will stay with you while you gain knowledge to your perspective.

 

You know I am a conservative so that's where I'll be coming from unless I state that I am viewing something from an alternate perspective.

 

And I am a proud American who is not necessarily proud of many of my politicians right now.

 

 

China is not playing fair? The U.S. corporations sold out the manufacturing base to China which has given China vast economic power. Coupled with the ruling CCP in combination with Capitalism, what do you expect? Capitalism is not about playing fair. Especially, U.S. Capitalism. 

Edited July 9, 2018 by ralis

[CityHermit!]

18 minutes ago, dawei said:

Interesting points but missing a major point: Someone can seemingly follow Dao and not be a Daoist.

 

To say what people should or should not be doing is no longer Dao talking but a personal voice, maybe even Confucianism. 

 

This subtle point may be why folks can't accept Trump, suddenly as he has not changed in 50 years...  it is more what they think he should or should not do... this is a personal opinion and not really about Trump on some level.

 

I wonder, what should Dao own up to ?    Seems it is only the minions asking this about the minions...

 

 

I agree, and this is something interesting to me as well. This also relates to a thought on my mind. Hypothetically, what of a Daoist or someone who claims to be who seems to say what is right for others to think or do. What of the same person doing so in a place or setting completely out of place for them? Can there be a question of concern over representation, proper or not, of Dao to those who have little to no experience or familiarity with it before, and therefore a potential risk of confusion or misrepresentation? What if it's towards political ends? What if it's towards destructive political ends at that? What if it's just a farce for those ends? If, having come across such and you were a Daoist would you feel any obligation to say or do anything, or at least be curious to examine?

[joeblast]

24 minutes ago, ralis said:

 

That is precisely why I have for the most part stopped participating in the Trump thread. Ad hominems, racism, misogyny, anti-Semitism and so forth tend to dominate over time. For so called Taoists/spiritual seekers to seek such a low road is preposterous.

intellectual dishonesty being called out, is ad hominem; pointing out the bullshit of the propagandized tends to get called racist, misogynist, anti "semitic," and any other bunch of non substantive deflections designed to keep the discussion off of the propaganda and those who invent it.  unfortunately, the unwitting propagandized are ever there to present to the world how thorough their stockholm syndrome is, and support the propagandists at every last turn.

 

it'd be much nicer if you could respond substantively, but all you appear to do is nitpick at words that you might complain about.

 

unfortunately, its rare to ever see a Progressive venture outside of their soft-shell area to debate things in the real world, where they might be disagreed with.  its like putting a 10 year old in the mosh pit at a slayer concert, they're just not ready for it.

 

 

2 minutes ago, Marblehead said:

Ad let us remember that the CIA is not supposed to be operating on USA soil.

 

I was surprised after installing Windows 10 at how many sub-routines include, likely links, FBI.

 

Spying on our own people because immigration vetting and background checks were apparently eliminated.

 

you spelled the entire world wrong

 

its all about control

 

control to maintain the fraud, at any, and all, costs

 

that's why there was no evidentiary standard whatsoever for the invention of the trump dossier - FISA approval happened on reputation alone.

[dawei]

11 minutes ago, ralis said:

 

The Tao is not in regards to an ancient political philosophy, but the natural world, including the cosmos. The mistaken idea that Taoism is an anthropocentric ideology is a belief from the Middle Ages. BTW, I included spiritual belief systems along with the Tao.  Further, the threads in question lack ethical values, in general, from most of the participants. 

 

Your point regarding Trump is not well taken in the least! However, to write a critical essay at this point is futile in that Trump supporters are blinded by propaganda and generally will not listen to well documented reason. History is replete with such examples. Words matter and have deep effects on the human psyche.

 

I never stated political philosophy but agree with how you end that sentence for the most part.  Sure, you included spiritual belief systems and I think that is good.   

 

Consider whether you sometimes mistake a 'trump supporter' with someone who just doesn't have an issue with Trump... there is propaganda on both sides, so that argument seems not well taken to me.   

 

Words matter when one takes them as needing to matter.  What if one doesn't need words to matter so much?    

[CityHermit!]

14 minutes ago, Marblehead said:

Hehehe to the last statement.

 

Free trade agreements are good as long as both sides play fair.  Apparently Trump thinks China isn't playing fair.

 

AS long as you don't get personal with me I will stay with you while you gain knowledge to your perspective.

 

You know I am a conservative so that's where I'll be coming from unless I state that I am viewing something from an alternate perspective.

 

And I am a proud American who is not necessarily proud of many of my politicians right now.

 

That's all fine and good. I've had family, family friends, friends, co-workers, bosses, classmates, general associates, etc. both conservative and liberal and I've never had political disputes with any one of them.

 

Here's the thing. Putin and Xi are very cozy with one another in a personal way, more so than Trump is or can be with either one of them. To check China without addressing Russia is not strategically sound. So if Trump gets tough with China but is soft with Russia then it's almost as if the tough stance on China is not of use.

[dawei]

8 minutes ago, ralis said:

 

China is not playing fair? The U.S. corporations sold out the manufacturing base to China which has given China vast economic power. Coupled with the ruling CCP in combination with Capitalism, what do you expect? Capitalism is not about playing fair. Especially, U.S. Capitalism. 

 

I think that is a fair point but I think MH may be talking more in regards to trade and tariffs.   Trump seems to want to balance that aspect but I would agree one cannot view that without also the trade surplus/deficit aspect. 

[dawei]

4 minutes ago, CityHermit! said:

I agree, and this is something interesting to me as well. This also relates to a thought on my mind. Hypothetically, what of a Daoist or someone who claims to be who seems to say what is right for others to think or do. What of the same person doing so in a place or setting completely out of place for them? Can there be a question of concern over representation, proper or not, of Dao to those who have little to no experience or familiarity with it before, and therefore a potential risk of confusion or misrepresentation? What if it's towards political ends? What if it's towards destructive political ends at that? What if it's just a farce for those ends? If, having come across such and you were a Daoist would you feel any obligation to say or do anything, or at least be curious to examine?

 

great points... and questions to be asked and some may not have an answer except from the person in question. 

[CityHermit!]

1 minute ago, dawei said:

 

great points... and questions to be asked and some may not have an answer except from the person in question. 

Exactly, hence speaking hypothetically In context of presenting these questions, especially when person in question in real scenario has no straight answers.

Edited July 9, 2018 by CityHermit!
grammar, sentence clarification

[dawei]

3 minutes ago, CityHermit! said:

Here's the thing. Putin and Xi are very cozy with one another in a personal way, more so than Trump is or can be with either one of them. To check China without addressing Russia is not strategically sound. So if Trump gets tough with China but is soft with Russia then it's almost as if the tough stance on China is not of use.

 

Sure... the communist connection exists... tie in NK.     Agreed. 

[Marblehead]

10 minutes ago, ralis said:

 

China is not playing fair? The U.S. corporations sold out the manufacturing base to China which has given China vast economic power. Coupled with the ruling CCP in combination with Capitalism, what do you expect? Capitalism is not about playing fair. Especially, U.S. Capitalism. 

All points valid Ralis.  I can't and wouldn't even want to argue them.

 

And that is some of the faults made in the past that Trump is trying to correct.

 

I mean, he even told Harley-Davidson to go ahead and produce their bikes in Europe.  He would simply subsidize the Indian and Japanese bike manufacturers building bikes in the USA.

 

[CityHermit!]

Just now, dawei said:

 

Sure... the communist connection exists... tie in NK.     Agreed. 

Right, and they don't care about the Korea populace either. It's meaningful in as far as it is a buffer.

[dawei]

1 minute ago, CityHermit! said:

Right, and they don't care about the Korea populace either. It's meaningful in as far as it is a buffer.

 

very true !

[Marblehead]

9 minutes ago, CityHermit! said:

 

Here's the thing. Putin and Xi are very cozy with one another in a personal way, more so than Trump is or can be with either one of them. To check China without addressing Russia is not strategically sound. So if Trump gets tough with China but is soft with Russia then it's almost as if the tough stance on China is not of use.

Agree.  Trump and Putin will be meeting soon.  We'll see what happens with that.

 

Sure, Putin wants his old Soviet Union back.  He will do most anything to make that happen.

 

China has great economic power right now all over the Western world and they are investing in other countries in order to gain even more control.

 

The USA isn't out of the picture because we have the military power.

 

Work in progress.

 

[CityHermit!]

2 minutes ago, Marblehead said:

Agree.  Trump and Putin will be meeting soon.  We'll see what happens with that.

 

Sure, Putin wants his old Soviet Union back.  He will do most anything to make that happen.

 

China has great economic power right now all over the Western world and they are investing in other countries in order to gain even more control.

 

The USA isn't out of the picture because we have the military power.

 

Work in progress.

 

Oh Putin is never getting that back. If anything partly because of same Chinese economic expansion, one belt one road and all. So the Putin and Xi friendship does have vulnerabilities.

Edited July 9, 2018 by CityHermit!
addition

[dawei]

Just now, CityHermit! said:

Oh Putin is never getting that back.

 

I agree... Putin is looking forward in a different way. 

[CityHermit!]

1 minute ago, dawei said:

 

I agree... Putin is looking forward in a different way. 

Well said and too fast for my edit.