dawei Posted February 16, 2017 Yep. Before One gave birth to Two there was only One. and before ONE ? Thanks for the trick question. No, Tao didn't give birth to One. Tao is a verb, remember? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jeff Posted February 16, 2017 (edited) Doesn't the One emerge from Tao.... The Tao is not something that gives birth... Edited February 16, 2017 by Jeff 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted February 16, 2017 Yeah, I really not expecting anyone to accept my understanding of this concept but I still must hold to it. From my understanding of the scientific POV, Singularity gave birth to all things. What was Two? Well, hydrogen was one of them. Was gravity the other? It is said that hydrogen and gravity gave birth to helium. Can we call something a "thing" if it is undefinable? Tao is undefinable, right? Singularity is also undefinable. What caused Singularity to "Bang"? Tao did. (The processes of nature.) Tzujan? 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted February 16, 2017 Doesn't the One emerge from Tao.... Chapter 42, Henricks' translation, Line 1: The Way gave birth to the One. The "Way" here, in my mind, is Tzujan, which is a verb. The Tao is not something that gives birth... Agreed. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AussieTrees Posted February 16, 2017 Yeah, I really not expecting anyone to accept my understanding of this concept but I still must hold to it. From my understanding of the scientific POV, Singularity gave birth to all things. What was Two? Well, hydrogen was one of them. Was gravity the other? It is said that hydrogen and gravity gave birth to helium. Can we call something a "thing" if it is undefinable? Tao is undefinable, right? Singularity is also undefinable. What caused Singularity to "Bang"? Tao did. (The processes of nature.) Tzujan? Hi Marblehead, Nothing was sparked to one by Om. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted February 16, 2017 I don't know who Om is. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dawei Posted February 16, 2017 Doesn't the One emerge from Tao.... The Tao is not something that gives birth... I don't see anything emerges from Tao... I see Tao as the 'rule' by which things arise and go their way. and why I did this thread, The GREAT ONE is not Dao where MB said: But Dawei, Tao gave birth to One. It is so stated. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zhongyongdaoist Posted February 16, 2017 You can read about OM here, though he uses an older spelling, preferring "oom". On a more scholarly note, Livia Kohn has a very interesting essay in Taoist Meditation and Longevity Techniques, "Guarding the One: Concentrative Meditation in Taoism" in which she examines the many senses in which "one" is used in Daoist literature, through Laozi and Zhuangzi and into the early centuries C.E., which can be used to make an interesting and useful cross cultural comparisons with Plato's dialog, The Parmenides, assuming you can understand The Parmenides that is, which, since it is one of Plato's toughest dialogues is assuming a lot. In either case, the one is wonderful in its multiplicity, and while it doesn't speak with a fork-ed tongue, is not univocal either. 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AussieTrees Posted February 16, 2017 (edited) I don't know who Om is.Hi Marblehead, Ommmmm,is the sound of the universe. Sure,how would I know,I don't. Just sounds right. Edited February 16, 2017 by AussieTrees 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted February 16, 2017 (edited) I don't see anything emerges from Tao... I see Tao as the 'rule' by which things arise and go their way. and why I did this thread, The GREAT ONE is not Dao where MB said: Marblehead, on 19 Dec 2014 - 04:49 AM, said: But Dawei, Tao gave birth to One. It is so stated. Yeah, we will call what is happening to my understanding "evolution". How can a non-thing give birth to a thing? And please don't tell me about miracles. Edited February 16, 2017 by Marblehead 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted February 16, 2017 You can read about OM here, though he uses an older spelling, preferring "oom". Ah! A scam artist. I've got it. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted February 16, 2017 Hi Marblehead, Ommmmm,is the sound of the universe. Sure,how would I know,I don't. Just sounds right. Yeah, I think it was Arno Penzias and Robert Woodrow Wilson who first identified that sound. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jeff Posted February 16, 2017 I don't know who Om is. Om is the vibration of (between) the two polarities of the "two". It is before "three" and the "10,000 things". 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted February 16, 2017 Om is the vibration of (between) the two polarities of the "two". It is before "three" and the "10,000 things". I can accept that. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mig Posted February 18, 2017 Why do we need to find the origin, the source when we are the source, we are part of the source, it is a cyclical evolution. Beyond the universe we will never know it and don't think we can push that far, so far with new technologies we reach farther than we can imagine. Now is the return to our sources and continue the cycle. 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted February 18, 2017 Yep. There are cycles all over the place. We each are one: Birth - Life - Death. Ha! My recarnation friends will ping me on this but I have argued the concept before and am willing to do so again. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kara_mia Posted February 19, 2017 Oh, yes, an infamous opening verse from Chapter 42. Let me once again write it down here: Tao gave birth to One. One gave birth to Two. Two gave birth to Three. Three gave birth to all things. I would like to explain how I understand this, except for Tao itself I don't yet understand what is Tao. However, I believe that the rest is quite clear. One gave birth to Two - and Two here are Shen and Qi. In their turn, those two, namely Shen and Qi, gave birth to a third (three here is in fact singular - meaning a third), and this is Jing. 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted February 20, 2017 I don't yet understand what is Tao. However, I believe that the rest is quite clear. One gave birth to Two - and Two here are Shen and Qi. In their turn, those two, namely Shen and Qi, gave birth to a third (three here is in fact singular - meaning a third), and this is Jing. Yes, that is acceptable to my mind. We can easily talk about the Manifest because we have facts and proofs. To talk about the Mystery is more challenging. I mean, the mystery has not yet manifested itself. But then, I still suggest that we can experience the Mystery even though we cannot prove what we have experienced. So, yeah, One (Singularity) gave birth to Two (wu and yu) and these two gave birth to the Ten Thousand Things. Tao is all about why Singularity came to be in the first place and also why/how it gave birth to Two. And so far I have not been able to go there with my logical mind. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kara_mia Posted February 26, 2017 Yes, that is acceptable to my mind. We can easily talk about the Manifest because we have facts and proofs. To talk about the Mystery is more challenging. I mean, the mystery has not yet manifested itself. But then, I still suggest that we can experience the Mystery even though we cannot prove what we have experienced. So, yeah, One (Singularity) gave birth to Two (wu and yu) and these two gave birth to the Ten Thousand Things. Tao is all about why Singularity came to be in the first place and also why/how it gave birth to Two. And so far I have not been able to go there with my logical mind. Yes, me neither. May be the answer is hidden within the meaning of the ideogram Tao? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted February 26, 2017 Yes, me neither. May be the answer is hidden within the meaning of the ideogram Tao? Maybe. But I think that it isn't something hidden at all. It perhaps just requires a mind that is more open than mine is. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Miffymog Posted February 27, 2017 OP - Tao is a verb That's kind of what I'm trying out at the moment, which is similar to the 'I was never born and I will never die' malarkey. So, in terms of Taoism, Tao is ongoing/continuous and present. The whole 'Tao gave birth' aspect is just a made up story/fantasy that has no relevance or significance to me 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rene Posted March 3, 2017 ... Tao is all about why Singularity came to be in the first place and also why/how it gave birth to Two. ... . (-: It also feels like the 'why' in all things, motions, etc.; a reflection of the unboundaried aspect of the eternal moment, i.e., mystery. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted March 3, 2017 (-: It also feels like the 'why' in all things, motions, etc.; a reflection of the unboundaried aspect of the eternal moment, i.e., mystery. You just caused me to recall Wayne Wang's intro to his translation. We come out of the Mystery, enter into the Manifest, then, as you speak to, attain a balance between the two. This requires a "returning", of sorts. That is, a returning to wu (Mystery), not to Tao. Tao is the process of that returning. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rene Posted March 3, 2017 (edited) You just caused me to recall Wayne Wang's intro to his translation. We come out of the Mystery, enter into the Manifest, then, as you speak to, attain a balance between the two. This requires a "returning", of sorts. That is, a returning to wu (Mystery), not to Tao. Tao is the process of that returning. YES. AND, in your post, substitute "returning" (which implies 'either/or') with "continuing" and you've leaped into the realm of Both. Manifest & mystery. Same time. Unboundaried. Tao in every moment. (-: Well met. . edit typo Edited March 3, 2017 by rene 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thelerner Posted March 3, 2017 Yeah, I really not expecting anyone to accept my understanding of this concept but I still must hold to it. From my understanding of the scientific POV, Singularity gave birth to all things. What was Two? Well, hydrogen was one of them. Was gravity the other? It is said that hydrogen and gravity gave birth to helium. Can we call something a "thing" if it is undefinable? Tao is undefinable, right? Singularity is also undefinable. What caused Singularity to "Bang"? Tao did. (The processes of nature.) Tzujan? That's really putting the chemical into alchemical Taoism. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
