Homosexuality in the tao

[Mudfoot]

Semen is used up jing, at least when it comes to the internal arts.

Can you revert that?

If so,.....

[Mandrake]

A lot of vague notions about "balance" and sexual morality here...

 

But technically-speaking, if men preserve their jing by retaining their semen...then shouldn't they also be able to gain jing by ingesting others' semen?  Should Daoist adepts be chugging espresso shots of cum to kickstart every morning?  And would, say, bull semen have more jing than human semen?

Do promiscuous women or gay men tend to have large reservoirs of jing?

 

Off-topic.

Semen retention is something else.

[Taojustis]

Interesting question. Personally, I don't interpret the TTC as anything to do with homosexuality, but definitely to gender and gender roles. Not to allow oneself to be too masculine, or too feminine, and to choose a partner who complements – not too similar, not too different.

 

Thoughts?

[Rocky Lionmouth]

I've had issues with those readings of yin yang, as i believe femininity and masculinity were common ways to illustrate the dynamic interrelationship between things, the big takeawY from there for me was always that if they stop moving, transforming and shifting this immobility will in itself cause a new cyclical shift further along.

All the metaphors of opposites and polarities make no sense without each other.

 

What was regarded as feminine and masculine back in the days when this stuff was written? Wojld be interesting to know. I think gender roles in the TTC are metaphorical.

 

Looking at true nature, wu wei and the grand ultimates then gender roles and societal situation that need to be taken in account start to take on a very confucian aspect of rules of "proper" position and decorum.

 

I still think heaven smiles upon those who follow their true nature, even through ordeals and hardship. Being gay sounds like following ones inner nature to me at least.

 

If i understand correctly jing is spent making semen. And skin. And phlegm and earwax. Semen is high priority production in a healthy male body (or at least thats what i hear but who knows) and that is one of many signs that jing is abundant. Of course frugality is good and not being exhausted is a good way to make ones pre-heaven stores less strained for longer so dont waste jing making more semen than you need and make sure to replenish post-heaven stores so you have energy to spend... 2 cents at least...

Edited April 3, 2017 by Rocky Lionmouth

[Taomeow]

I was not going to read through this thread, thinking that as a straight woman (not only in this life but in all lifetimes I have glimpses of memories of) I might have nothing to contribute.  But then I opened it somehow and got curious, and then  I discovered that apparently "lesbians don't exist" according to one poster, so I had to add my two Shang dynasty cents... you know, the ones with a hole in them... 

 

The great taoist goddess, Xi Wangmu, The Queen Mother of the West, one of the oldest deities in taoism, in whose garden peaches of immortality grow on a colossal Tree, only ripening once every 3000 years, has been a card-carrying lesbian for at least as long.  The Tree is a cosmic axis that connects heaven and earth, a ladder traveled by spirits and shamans.

 

Xi Wangmu controls the cosmic forces:  time and space and the pivotal Great Dipper constellation. With her powers of creation and destruction, she ordains life and death, disease and healing, and determines the life spans of all living beings. The energies of new growth surround her like a cloud.  She presides over the dead and afterlife, and confers divine realization and immortality on spiritual seekers.

 

Now then.  Patriarchal revisions, from the Han dynasty forward, have been attempted numerous times, because the wild shaman-goddess, tiger-woman, subordinate to no man, didn't sit well with the new paradigm.  She was becoming a lot more ladylike in her depictions, and then some authors tried to saddle her with a husband (something she originally never had) while others undertook portraying her as a slut who stole sexual powers of innumerable young boys to replenish her own.  None of it of course was true, but the times, they were a-changing.  And yet... 

 

Scholars may have bought into this revisionist crap (and some did), but two thousand years after the Shang inscription to the Eastern and Western Mothers, folk religion continued to pair Xi Wangmu with a goddess of the East.  Often it was Ma Gu or Ma Zi, goddess of the Eastern Sea, whose paradise island of Penglai was equivalent to Kunlun.  Ma Zi is another eternal being who oversees vast cycles of time, as the Eastern Sea gives way to mulberry fields, and then back to ocean again.  Xi Wangmu traveled to this blessed Eastern Isle when the goddesses had a rendezvous.  They also share a title: like Wangmu, the name Ma Zi means “maternal ancestor, grandmother.”

 

One reason I keep looking as far back as I can to figure out what's what is, if you don't look far enough back, it's always the same patriarchal story.  A story not to be trusted. 

Edited April 3, 2017 by Taomeow

[Rocky Lionmouth]

Oh snap, i had missed that post about lesbians not existing, it intrigued me because i spoke to one just the other day and thought "i must have been mistaken then."

But i did a search anyway and apparently, i've seen a source on TDB saying it's such a valid nonexistence based on traditional medicine that some people would agree with others on that.

Usually that is the outmost pinnacle of stringent argumentation: if someone agrees with someone, then it cant be anything other than truthful fact... *ahem*

I laughed.

I'm sorry, i know it's bad form to laugh when people say terrible things but i did laugh.

Edited April 14, 2017 by Rocky Lionmouth

[Rocky Lionmouth]

A lot of vague notions about "balance" and sexual morality here...

 

But technically-speaking, if men preserve their jing by retaining their semen...then shouldn't they also be able to gain jing by ingesting others' semen? Should Daoist adepts be chugging espresso shots of cum to kickstart every morning? And would, say, bull semen have more jing than human semen?

Do promiscuous women or gay men tend to have large reservoirs of jing?

Well, you're missing the point. If your reasoning doesnt turn back to the starting point where men should not orgasm, women have some sort of mysterious, exotic, obscure endless reserve and practice vampirism or succubic parasitism (while also being qualitatively inferior and impure) while people who are homosexual cant be taken into accord because they just mess up the logic and all the quick and easy answers go awry,

If the world doesnt fit a particular logic then the world is wrong, because reason and the logical unfoldings of living energy set the rules.

 

 

Btw, i'm adding a caveat just to play it safe: i found your post very funny and steeped in my favourite type of irony now that i read it again and i'm trying to banter with sarcasm about ideas that i hear variations of on weekly basis. It makes me sad and upset, so instead i joke, it's a mechanism to cope with the pain while reminding myself that the majority i'm part of (swm) has me collectively responsible for all our shortcomings even though theyre constantly pointed out by first and second hand witnesses. So much in fact there are whole fields of academic discipline and study. I mean no offense to anyone i'm not trolling.

Edited April 14, 2017 by Rocky Lionmouth

[Rocky Lionmouth]

Double post, pardon me. My wifi be buggin.

Edited April 14, 2017 by Rocky Lionmouth

[liminal_luke]

 It makes me sad and upset, so instead i joke, it's a mechanism to cope with the pain while reminding myself that the majority i'm part of (swm) has me collectively responsible for all our shortcomings even though theyre constantly pointed out by first and second hand witnesses. So much in fact there are whole fields of academic discipline and study. I mean no offense to anyone i'm not trolling.

 

You might imagine that here in Mexico, where I`m living now, racism against latinos would be at a minimum.  You`d be wrong.  Lighter skinned latinos often look down on their darker skinned compatriots as if they were so much dark brown trash.

 

You might think that gay men, having experienced their share of prejudice, would be especially compassionate towards other groups who`ve been similarly discriminated against.  Sadly, it ain`t always so.

 

Membership in a "protected class" does not confer angel status on anybody.  It`s a message I think straight white men need to hear.  Nobody should feel less than because of their color or their gender or their sexual preference -- and that includes the oft-vilified SWM.  

 

We`re all in this together. 

Edited April 14, 2017 by liminal_luke

[Taomeow]

This may be of interest:

Before European Christians Forced Gender Roles, Native Americans Acknowledged 5 Genders

http://bipartisanreport.com/2016/06/19/before-european-christians-forced-gender-roles-native-americans-acknowledged-5-genders/

[Earl Grey]

This may be of interest:

Before European Christians Forced Gender Roles, Native Americans Acknowledged 5 Genders

http://bipartisanreport.com/2016/06/19/before-european-christians-forced-gender-roles-native-americans-acknowledged-5-genders/

 

This too from Indonesia: http://www.insideindonesia.org/sulawesis-fifth-gender-2

Edited April 15, 2017 by Earl Grey

[Rocky Lionmouth]

Agreed Luke and again thank you for your post.

 

Yeah, one of the oldest and most common principles, to maintain ones rung-position it is important to remember how long the plunge is and the directions to kick, lick and block...

 

Few ever seem to realize that if you try to beat "them" at their own game you've lost.

 

As Busta Rhymes so concisely put forth his strategy for achieving greatness and coining a name for the overall tactic:

"Switch it on them. Flipmode. Flipmode is the greatest."

 

[Sublimation]

No, big dragon in women do not make them gay or lesbian because gay women or lesbians do not exists so how you can become a lesbian? From TCM lesbians do not exist and some other people would agree on that. (This condition is only affected in men)

 

Big dragon means that you are loud women, very sexual and penis carving person. Strong dragon makes actually great "vampire" of women and they are pretty dangerous for men.

 

There is a lot to say and clarify in this topic as most people from what I see do not have even basic knowledge on this one so I can not talk rocket sciences to kindergarten kids beside in terms on examples as funny toys and fun. If I would start explaining it the way you want it you would not comperhand it anyway so it's up to you to follow up my things and research if they are true or not. Unless I can play with your big dragon we can then think of putting things on plate for you.

 

Homosexuality is found in a lot of other species, not only humanity. So your theories don't proof anything in my opinion. To think that only hetero people are living healthy is quite dangerous in my eyes. It leads to fascism and a lot of buddhist/zen/daoist thinking is like that. fascists thoughts because of a view on the world thats purely biased by mysticism. A lot of this Yin/Yang talk is not really balanced like they want us to believe. You should give U.G. Krishnamurti a read if you have time. He confronts a lot of the holy men and sharlatans from the east and they are talking like you. It is not meant as an offense but your ideology is harming a lot of people.

[Nuralshamal]

On 17.2.2017 at 7:27 PM, Orgasmic19 said:

I am sure this has been discussed before, but I was wondering how does one balance the energies in a homosexual relationship?

 

As human beings we both have feminine and masculine energies within us.

 

The male is naturally going to have more yang energy and the female more yin energy.

The best explanation of sexuality and spirituality at different evolutionary stages I've ever come across is from the Danish Mystic Martinus.

I found a great description on it here: https://qr.ae/TZJHqN

[thelerner]

Also, what does it say about us,

if we spend our time worrying

and speculating about other peoples sex life?