Correct words of Patriarchs

[Marblehead]

 

 

 You are embarrassing yourself really.

I do that often to add humor to a discussion.

 

I'm sure that in maybe two thousand years you two will find agreement.

[Taoist Texts]

I do that often to add humor to a discussion.

Totally. i am here for the neidan jokes myself. They sell immortality, lol.

 

I'm sure that in maybe two thousand years you two will find agreement.

 

The fat lady is on her way hehe).

[damdao]

I do that often to add humor to a discussion.

 

I'm sure that in maybe two thousand years you two will find agreement.

 

The problem is when there is no a honest discussion.

Here we can see this when some people either does not look for the right context of a group of words, then quote of context like in buke duode, because the translation of buke in one context is not the same as in other context, so showing an example without this distinction is simply false. What in a context may be translated in one way does not means that always is this way or even that this is the general meaning. For instance: leg in "don't pull my leg" will be translated in spanish with "pelo" "hair", and this does not means that leg is hair, only that in this context the equivalence is very different.

The other serious problem is when someone uses modern chinese to give the meaning of classical chinese (it is like to say that "ye" at the end of a sentence means "too" because today we use it as "too"). To say that "impossible" is "bukeneng" is modern chinese, is not classical and is not poetry. I guess "bukeneng" is too large to be used as "impossible" in a poetry work.

In order to be fair here we have two links where you can see the different range of meanings and uses, different translations and expressions. But in most of cases buke has the sense of something that should not be done of that you can not do (=impossible ):

 

http://ctext.org/dictionary.pl?if=en&char=不可

http://humanum.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/Lindict/

 

In the second one type 不可 and it will display a page, it is of modern usage but has classical meanings and quotes.

Edited March 7, 2017 by damdao

[Kar3n]

[Arkady Shadursky]

 

不可多得

bù kě duō dé

hard to come by

https://chinese.yabla.com/chinese-english-pinyin-dictionary.php?define=%E4%B8%8D%E5%8F%AF%E5%A4%9A%E5%BE%97

 

Perfect!      After 2 months of intensive searches you finally managed to find a single link that looks like supportive for your mistranslation.

 

So let me provide fellow members a little "Chinese for dummies" explanation about this single-in-entire-internet example you are referring to.

 

不可多得

Literally: "Can not (be) much (of something)", meaning rare.

Figuratively:  probably, as an idiom  it can be used in sense of "you shouldn't pass by this, you wouldn't find more of it, etc."

 

And the corresponding usages:

不可多得的机会 rare opportunity

不可多得的人才 exceptional talent

不可多得的佳作 a rare specimen of good writing

 

However there is no idiom "不可晓" meaning "hard to understand".

 

So it means - literally - 不可 impossible 晓 to understand (please see 2nd message of this topic for the origin of what we are talking about, the text in red).

 

You probably should understand that continuing insisting on your mistranslation you are again and again showing anyone knowing Chinese on TheDaoBums the true reason you initially "translated" 不可 as "hard to".

 

BTW, if it took 2 months for you to find such a link - what dictionary were you originally basing on for your initial "translation"? Which dictionary says that 不可 is "hard to"? What textbook? Or were it only your personal thoughts?
---
Best Regards,
Arkady

Edited March 7, 2017 by Arkady Shadursky

[Taoist Texts]

Figuratively:  probably, as an idiom  it can be used in sense of "you shouldn't pass by this, 

 

I am sorry, I don't speak Gibberish.

 

You probably should understand that continuing insisting on your mistranslation you are again and again showing anyone knowing Chinese on TheDaoBums the true reason you initially "translated" 不可 as "hard to".

 

 

 

Look, first, nobody cares. Seriously, no one gives a flying snap, starting with myself.

Second, your attacks on me never made any sense, but by now they have deteriorated into a repetitive, boring gibberish. Could you may be, declare a victory on this one and switch to attacking any other of my 2000 posts? I promise to come up with new neidan jokes.

 

BTW, if it took 2 months for you to find such a link - what dictionary were you originally basing on for your initial "translation"? Which dictionary says that 不可 is "hard to"? What textbook? Or were it only your personal thoughts?

 

 

I keep six honest serving-men

 (They taught me all I knew);

Their names are What and Why and When 

 And How and Where and Who.

I send them over land and sea,

 I send them east and west;

But after they have worked for me,

 I give them all a rest.

[Mudfoot]

I promise to come up with new neidan jokes.[/size]

 

Like the classic:

 

Nei Dan is like a box of chocolate,you never know what you get.

 

Or;

 

A prenatal Ming exercise is like Fight Club (you don't talk about Fight Club).

 

Or did you intend to raise the bar a little on the jokes?

[Marblehead]

It will require a better joke than the one above to get a chuckle out of me.

 

And let us not forget, all books are written by men and men are naturally flawed because of their ego.  Only nature (Tao) is flawless.

[damdao]

 

 

And let us not forget, all books are written by men and men are naturally flawed because of their ego.  Only nature (Tao) is flawless.

 

Original sin in Daoism?

[Marblehead]

Original sin in Daoism?

 

Nope.  There is no original sin.  It's all learned.

[dawei]

The problem is when there is no a honest discussion.

Here we can see this when some people either does not look for the right context of a group of words, then quote of context like in buke duode, because the translation of buke in one context is not the same as in other context, so showing an example without this distinction is simply false. What in a context may be translated in one way does not means that always is this way or even that this is the general meaning. 

 

But nobody argued this point but you.     A honest discussion will provide examples.  And a honest evaluation will look at context.

 

My [chinese] wife agrees with TT... but let's forget about someone chinese explaining chinese texts.  

 

As an example... when I ask my wife to explain some phrase, I know it will take 1 hour... why?   She demand the entire text from beginning to end.  She demands to grasp the entire nuisance of meaning and then will only give some opinion.  In the end, it is still just her opinion.

 

She is not a practitioner of methods, she just follows the natural way of things.   So I will accept that practitioners want to impose their opinion as the true way for a tradition or teaching...  but it is within the confides of that tradition and teaching and not necessarily viewed from the perspective of the natural way of things. 

[damdao]

But nobody argued this point but you.     A honest discussion will provide examples.  And a honest evaluation will look at context.

 

???????

 

My [chinese] wife agrees with TT... but let's forget about someone chinese explaining chinese texts.  

 

You should provide the reasons, not the nationality.

 

As an example... when I ask my wife to explain some phrase, I know it will take 1 hour... why?   She demand the entire text from beginning to end.  She demands to grasp the entire nuisance of meaning and then will only give some opinion.  In the end, it is still just her opinion.

 

She is not a practitioner of methods, she just follows the natural way of things.   So I will accept that practitioners want to impose their opinion as the true way for a tradition or teaching...  but it is within the confides of that tradition and teaching and not necessarily viewed from the perspective of the natural way of things. 

 

What does "natural way of things" means?

[dawei]

What does "natural way of things" means?

 

 

Dao help me  

[Taoist Texts]

Dao help me  

“天不決人”

[Taoist Texts]

Or did you intend to raise the bar a little on the jokes?

“Knock knock.”

“Who’s there?”

“Neidan.”

“Neidan who?”

“Open the damn door! I am rushing!”

[Arkady Shadursky]

Well, as far as there is no more "proofs" for misleading concepts, Dao can finally take it's rights

 

Actually, I'm glad that we finally end this discussion.

I only hope that every member who provides translation here would keep in mind that there are other translators in the community. And any attempt of mistranslation wouldn't go unnoticed. This is also true for translators from DaoDe.

 

(and for sincere translators this is only for good - they are always greatfully accept corrections to their own mistakes)

---
Best Regards,
Arkady

[silent thunder]

 

Well, as far as there is no more "proofs" for misleading concepts, Dao can finally take it's rights

 

Actually, I'm glad that we finally end this discussion.

I only hope that every member who provides translation here would keep in mind that there are other translators in the community. And any attempt of mistranslation wouldn't go unnoticed. This is also true for translators from DaoDe.

 

(and for sincere translators this is only for good - they are always greatfully accept corrections to their own mistakes)

---

Best Regards,

Arkady

 

A fool despises the one who corrects him, but a Sage is grateful.

 

timing... my son just repeated this saying to me right before I read your post.

[Taoist Texts]

 

 And any attempt of mistranslation wouldn't go unnoticed. 

 

 

LOL)

Edited April 13, 2017 by Taoist Texts

[Taoist Texts]

(and for sincere translators this is only for good - they are always greatfully accept corrections to their own mistakes)

 

 

Of course. Particularly, if they have yet to master English spelling...

 

 

 

 they are always greatfully accept 

 

...and English grammar. What did go unnoticed here is called 'conjugation'. You may wanna look it up.

 

http://grammar.yourdictionary.com/parts-of-speech/verbs/what-is-a-conjugated-verb.html

 

 

LOL)

[opendao]

it seems foolish arguments are over, and stupid trolling confirms that...

 

thanks Arkady for a great lesson on careful and attentive translation of Daoist texts.

It shows again how every word is important, and when neglected such mistakes easily confuse people.

 

"Without texts one can't find a Teacher, without a Teacher one can't understand texts"

[Taoist Texts]

it seems foolish arguments are over, and stupid trolling confirms that...

 

 

Opendao, could you please clarify the above for me. Are your insults directed at somebody in particular or at everybody on this forum in general?

[opendao]

Opendao, could you please clarify the above for me. Are your insults directed at somebody in particular or at everybody on this forum in general?

 

they are directed to no-sense arguments and trolling.

It's obvious for all not-so-huge-ego people.

 

Just to help you:

 

ad·jec·tive

ˈajəktiv/

noun

GRAMMAR

 

1. a word or phrase naming an attribute, added to or grammatically related to a noun to modify or describe it.

[Taoist Texts]

 

they are directed to no-sense arguments and trolling.

 

 

Hmm, could  you kindly provide a link to such in this thread?

 

Also, 'no-sense' is not a word.)

Edited April 17, 2017 by Taoist Texts

[Taoist Texts]

"Without texts one can't find a Teacher, without a Teacher one can't understand texts"

(Otto von Bismarck)

[Spotless]

"Point - Counter Point"

 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=soL46TbBCaE#