Celestial Buddhas and Bodhisattvas

[Kongming]

Traditionally have the various Celestial Buddhas and Bodhisattvas (such as Vairocana, Avalokitesvara, Manjushri, etc.) and other beings such as Vidyarajas and Dharmapalas been understood as objective beings? Obviously in Buddhism you hear of everything being either of One Mind or being Pure Mind or perhaps all being empty, but do these various beings in the Buddhist pantheon have some form of objective existence as well?

 

In other words, how and do these beings assist devotees on the path enlightenment or perhaps intercede to rescue beings in danger? Historically from my understanding they were certainly prayed to. What does prayer to these beings do in the context of Buddhist cultivation or general religiosity?

 

I am not too familiar with the topic, but how does all of this relate to the notion of "other power" one often hears about in Japanese Buddhism? How do these beings figure in relation to tantric/esoteric (whether Shingon/East Asian mikkyo or Himalayan/Tibetan Buddhism)?

 

In short, please discuss any information or viewpoints on the topic of the celestial Buddhas and Bodhisattvas.

[C T]

http://www.khandro.net/deities.htm

 

 

Vajrayana practitioners work with different deities depending on affinity and types of obstacles encountered. 

[rex]

The mind applying the dharma is seen as protection though there is also the view that there are actual beings who are dharma protectors too. It's all very well banging on about emptiness but the protectors as seen as real as you or I or the dharma teacher giving the teachings.

[Kongming]

I came across this explanation of things in John Blofeld's book on Guanyin. These are the words of some Chinese Buddhist he was talking with on the topic (I could only take a screenshot of the text couldn't copy so here it is as an image):

 

 

Is this an accurate way of viewing the matter?

 

I've also heard that during mantra practice, particularly that related to a specific Buddha or Bodhisattva, that one of the aims besides increasing concentration is to make a connection with an enlightened being. Does this thus mean they have some sort of objective existence?

 

Personally I don't care for Madhyamika and am more interested in Yogacara, Tathagatagarhbha, East Asian systems (Tiantai, Huayan, Chan, etc.) and East Asian esoteric views on this topic. Anyone have any insights in this regard?

[Vajra Fist]

As a Pure Land buddhist I would absolutely say that Amitabha has an objective existence. My understanding, from where I am in cultivation, is that the system is merely a process of letting go. Through an actual felt connection with Amitabha, you have a sense of yourself being accepted with loving kindness, just as you are. You understand that you are a limited being, and you slowly develop faith that by following this path, putting your trust in this higher power wholeheartedly, you will end up in the right place. Of course it's challenging and a gradual process to learn humility and faith. That's my understanding of 'other power".

Edited February 22, 2017 by Vajra Fist

[rex]

Is this an accurate way of viewing the matter?

It's a nice passage though there will be varying explanations and interpretations of Void, Mind and Bodhi and different terminologies. One explanation is that void or emptiness is only half the story and that there are also infinite qualities that manifest through interdependence and karma. Deities, or to borrow the term from the passage, 'particular streams of liberating energy' manifest from emptiness in response to the needs of sentient beings.

[C T]

I came across this explanation of things in John Blofeld's book on Guanyin. These are the words of some Chinese Buddhist he was talking with on the topic (I could only take a screenshot of the text couldn't copy so here it is as an image):

 

 

Is this an accurate way of viewing the matter?

 

I've also heard that during mantra practice, particularly that related to a specific Buddha or Bodhisattva, that one of the aims besides increasing concentration is to make a connection with an enlightened being. Does this thus mean they have some sort of objective existence?

 

Personally I don't care for Madhyamika and am more interested in Yogacara, Tathagatagarhbha, East Asian systems (Tiantai, Huayan, Chan, etc.) and East Asian esoteric views on this topic. Anyone have any insights in this regard?

It might be of interest to read up on the Tibetan practice of Tulpa. 

[Jeff]

I came across this explanation of things in John Blofeld's book on Guanyin. These are the words of some Chinese Buddhist he was talking with on the topic (I could only take a screenshot of the text couldn't copy so here it is as an image):

 

 

Is this an accurate way of viewing the matter?

 

I've also heard that during mantra practice, particularly that related to a specific Buddha or Bodhisattva, that one of the aims besides increasing concentration is to make a connection with an enlightened being. Does this thus mean they have some sort of objective existence?

 

Personally I don't care for Madhyamika and am more interested in Yogacara, Tathagatagarhbha, East Asian systems (Tiantai, Huayan, Chan, etc.) and East Asian esoteric views on this topic. Anyone have any insights in this regard?

I would agree that your quoted text makes a lot sense. Maybe think about it like your "local mind" is a subset of universal mind and universal mind is the same as "ultimate reality". A divine being "exists" as a being in universal mind that you can "map to" as a form based in your local mind. Connecting or merging with that divine being helps to breakdown the bubble of local mind so that you can realize that you were always really also universal mind/ultimate reality.

 

Such practices work much better with the support of a guru/master as the master already has access to aspects of universal mind. Hence the "knowing" of the master shared in your local mind space helps to form a bridge across the local bubble space.