Is Tai Chi quantum physics

[Wu Ming Jen]

After a mere few thousand years, modern science is beginning to catch up with Lao Tzu and you will find quotes from the Tao Te Ching in various modern scientific texts, especially those relating to quantum physics and quantum computing. 

 

The Tai Chi symbol shows the eternal motion and interplay of yin and yang around the central point of stillness. Each contains a little of its opposite (the “eyes” of the fishes) and as each reaches its extreme, its opposite arises again. The circle enclosing all of this represents the Tao.

 

(Interestingly, subatomic particles created in the depths of space always emerge as pairs of opposites.  It is this phenomenon which gives rise to Hawking radiation from black holes as one of the pair crosses the event horizon and is captured by the black hole while the other remains outside and becomes part of the radiated heat around it. Stephen Hawking has likened this to yin and yang at this fundamental level of the universe.)

 

Tai Chi Philosophy and Daily Life

Tai Chi teaches us the importance of balance and harmony in all things.

 

We gain a sense of equanimity, a kind of detachment from the ups and downs of life and an ability to remain on an even keel.

 

The interplay of yin and yang tells us that everything has its opposite, so however bad things get, the good times will come again, and when things go well, we don’t become complacent but appreciate what we have.

 

We begin to see unity in diversity – that everything in creation operates according to the same basic principles and is essentially the same.

 

We can see that all people and all living creatures are of equal value and we are all part of an integrated whole, like threads in a tapestry.

 

This leads to greater tolerance and respect for each other and for the planet as a whole. 

[Wayfarer]

Quantum Physicists are nowhere near understanding what Lao Tzu was saying.

[Miffymog]

Quantum Physicists are nowhere near understanding what Lao Tzu was saying.

 

 

Each are their own areas of study. I've had many friends who used to think that Christianity was a pile of rubbish and that science could answer all the questions.

 

Now, I'm not Christian, but I have a natural instinct to stand up to any opinion that is held strongly. It's not that I always disagree with that opinion, I just feel it's right to put forward the other argument.

 

So -

 

If I want to understand and calculate the trajectory of a projectile, I don't go to the bible to help me.

 

If I want help and advice in dealing with someone whom I feel has wronged me, I don't go to a Physics book.

 

 

There is actually a book called the 'Tao of Physics' by Fritjof Capra that does a good job of comparing modern Physics with ancient spirituality, and there is a large overlap.

Edited February 24, 2017 by Miffymog

[silent thunder]

To me, yes, and pretty definitively so.

 

I would express it that they are intrinsically expressing facets of each other, as all parts of a system reflect the other parts that support the whole.  Sort of the way a gem will reflect the other facets when light shines through it.

 

I cannot shake the indelible sense, the permeating and overriding sensation/thought... that I am always simultaneously part of something much larger than my self, while made entirely of smaller things and these layers reflect and relate.  None of them are independent of each other... all are indelibly linked to and through each other.

 

Pattern within patterns, all inter-related and co-mingled and co-arising.

 

In order to make a sandwich, I must first create a universe.

 

And while the sense of the separation of my body from others may be profoundly convincing and I may seem like a thing unto myself at times, as I inquire into the nature of reality, as I go within and as I study without... I steadily realize that I am intrinsically linked to all other parts of the system and all of it is unified.  My body is made not of human things, it is made entirely from the same elements as the 10,000... our differences exist in varying degrees, extremities and arrangements... our similarities are much more profoundly foundational.

 

That which is similar in each part of the system, far exceeds that which is derivational... to me... at this point.

 

One afternoon, as I was standing in the kitchen, watching my toddler son play in the living room while making tea.  As I reached for the honey, I had a flash of insight and realized that there was a chain of unbroken causation and co-arising conditions that lead directly from this moment of me reaching for the spoon, to the moment that my Mum and Dad came together to make me. 

 

And from that point where my folks came together, the unbroken line continued back, directly connecting the conditional events all the way back to the origins of what we call our universe...  at no point, was, or is there any line of demarcation that I could fathom or manufacture that could in any meaningful way, create a separation from any other thing, being, or condition. 

 

All events, all 'thing's, are one flowing oceanic, inter-related system.

 

The realization veritably rang in my awareness... in my being.  It was experienced as sensation and thought... that harkened back and built upon another realization I had while sitting and watching ants eating a lollipop...  that there is no time in my life that I am not simultaneously touching, something infinitely larger than myself and something unimaginably smaller. 

 

Connected. 

 

That I am part of something vast, while made of small things.

 

that

no thing is independent

all is inter-related and co-arising

all is one, with many seeming parts, yet all inter-related and co-arising...

all in all and all for all and through all and in and within all...

 

All paths stem from and return to source.  I expect the physicist's sincere inquiry into the nature of perception and reality will lead them inevitably to a merging and eventual full blown meeting with Lao at some juncture... and that, as inquiry leads to discovery of both false and true, Truth is revealed consistently and inevitably cannot long be hidden. 

 

Physics and the oddities described in the Quantum field and how they reflect many aspects of Taoism's mysteries, were a major initial draw for me to study Taoism in more depth.  Similarities expressed in what I had come across in both fields sparked the same curiosity to further study both.  Fritjoff Capra's book The Tao of Physics was a pivotal nudge for me and symbolizes nicely the very point you are asking in the OP. 

 

All roads, no matter where they meander, lead to source.  I've never been one much to walk the short cut anyway, I like to meander on my hike.  Meandering is not a waste, indeed nothing is wasted and truly, not all those who wander are lost. 

[silent thunder]

all is flowing, interconnected verbs... not nouns.

 

that'd be a much simpler way to put it...

[Wu Ming Jen]

Very nice post.

 

Tai Chi requires more than simple throws and absorbing or dealing hits to attain victory. Tai Chi art requires more than strength flexibility, or any combination of simple physical characteristics. It requires an understanding of geometry, space, and the physical laws that govern their physical interactions.

 

​Physics are a big part of Tai Chi practice. Tai Chi is applied science or advances physics.Quantum physics seems to get closer to the non physical aspects as well

 

Newer developments in physics, specifically in the field of quantum mechanics, demonstrate that objects exert influences even without directed physical contact. Through a phenomenon called Quantum Entanglement, one can measure a particle and instantaneously affect another particle in an equal and opposite manner no matter how far away they are, even faster than the speed of light.

[dwai]

Yes. Daoist metaphysics is absolutely applicable to Quantum Mechanics. Actually, it resolves both classical as well as quantum physics at the meta-level. It is applicable for thermodynamics, newtonian mechanics, quantum mechanics, etc etc.

 

More and more scientists today are stumbling onto the framework provided by Daoists - The "Dao <--> Taiji <--> 10,000 things" without background (or in many cases, ignoring the prior groundwork already laid down by the ancients). 

[silent thunder]

I'm reminded of a story of a Taoist Sage who responded to an inquiry from a Zen master about the nature of Tao, who stated... (and I'm paraphrasing)

 

"the only impossible thing, the only thing that can never be, is for one to be even a hair's breadth away from Tao, ever"

[dwai]

Watch this series if you can -- 

 

Curious Minds | The Chopra Foundation

 

Put aside any preconceptions you have about Deepak Chopra and just watch this series. 

[Wayfarer]

Each are their own areas of study. I've had many friends who used to think that Christianity was a pile of rubbish and that science could answer all the questions.

 

Now, I'm not Christian, but I have a natural instinct to stand up to any opinion that is held strongly. It's not that I always disagree with that opinion, I just feel it's right to put forward the other argument.

 

So -

 

If I want to understand and calculate the trajectory of a projectile, I don't go to the bible to help me.

 

If I want help and advice in dealing with someone whom I feel has wronged me, I don't go to a Physics book.

 

 

There is actually a book called the 'Tao of Physics' by Fritjof Capra that does a good job of comparing modern Physics with ancient spirituality, and there is a large overlap.

 

They are nowhere near understanding Lao Tzu because in a Taoist sense they are focussing on the "traces" while overlooking the "root".  Lao Tsu and the DDJ is describing the nameless mystery which he named Tao (the root) and that its energies are forming expressions which we take for "this and that" (traces).

 

For example Quantum Physics will show that a particle can be in two places at once.  Taoism explains there is not-two.  There is not even one, there is no-thingness.   Scientists are like hungry people who are busy eating the garnish while missing the main meal.  Doesn't mean they never have anything interesting to say but they won't find the answer to the beginning of the universe and the meaning of life because there was no beginning and there is no meaning

Edited February 26, 2017 by Wayfarer

[Miffymog]

 

1 - Sometimes what someone does in one room is different to what they do in another. Could I, for example, be a Physicist while in a laboratory, but a Daoist while performing Zhan Zhuang?

 

2 - The search for a theoretical / mathematical understanding of where the universe comes from is quite different to the search for where 'I' comes from. Doing one thing does not preclude the other.

 

However, Physicists need funding to do their job and put food on their tables. The press releases that make it into mainstream media can give quite a narrow and limited view of what they do and what their opinions are. They possibly don't always come across as all that humble in these circumstances 

Edited February 26, 2017 by Miffymog

[silent thunder]

I'd say, if you look long enough and with sincerity and the root will be uncovered...

[Brian]

 

1 - Sometimes what someone does in one room is different to what they do in another. Could I, for example, be a Physicist while in a laboratory, but a Daoist while performing Zhan Zhuang?

 

2 - The search for a theoretical / mathematical understanding of where the universe comes from is quite different to the search for where 'I' comes from. Doing one thing does not preclude the other.

 

However, Physicists need funding to do their job and put food on their tables. The press releases that make it into mainstream media can give quite a narrow and limited view of what they do and what their opinions are. They possibly don't always come across as all that humble in these circumstances 

If only clicking the "Thank you" button twice had the desired effect...

 

 

(Thank you)^2

[windwalker]

 

written long ago.

good read.

 

Would not a comparison mean that one was well versed in either one or the other to compare.

How many physicist posting here.  How many taiji practitioners here feel they are able to show how the art works according to the principles they write about.

 

 

 

"I had several discussions with Heisenberg. I lived in England then [circa 1972], and I visited him several times in Munich and showed him the whole manuscript chapter by chapter. He was very interested and very open, and he told me something that I think is not known publicly because he never published it.

 

He said that he was well aware of these parallels. While he was working on quantum theory he went to India to lecture and was a guest of Tagore. He talked a lot with Tagore about Indian philosophy. Heisenberg told me that these talks had helped him a lot with his work in physics, because they showed him that all these new ideas in quantum physics were in fact not all that crazy.

 

He realized there was, in fact, a whole culture that subscribed to very similar ideas. Heisenberg said that this was a great help for him. Niels Bohr had a similar experience when he went to China.^[1]"

 

The names of the "physicists"  giants in their field of study.   

 

"As a result of those influences, Bohr adopted the yin yang symbol as part of his family coat of arms when he was knighted in 1947."

 

nice   

Edited February 27, 2017 by windwalker

[Brian]

 

written long ago.

good read.

 

Would not a comparison mean that one was well versed in either one or the other to compare. [/size]

How many physicist posting here.  How many taiji practitioners here feel they are able to show how the art works according to the principles they write about.[/size]

 

 

 

"[/size]I had several discussions with Heisenberg. I lived in England then [circa 1972], and I visited him several times in Munich and showed him the whole manuscript chapter by chapter. He was very interested and very open, and he told me something that I think is not known publicly because he never published it.

 

He said that he was well aware of these parallels. While he was working on quantum theory he went to India to lecture and was a guest of Tagore. He talked a lot with Tagore about Indian philosophy. Heisenberg told me that these talks had helped him a lot with his work in physics, because they showed him that all these new ideas in quantum physics were in fact not all that crazy.

 

He realized there was, in fact, a whole culture that subscribed to very similar ideas. Heisenberg said that this was a great help for him. Niels Bohr had a similar experience when he went to China.^%5B1%5D"

 

The names of the "physicists"  giants in their field of study.   

 

"As a result of those influences, Bohr adopted the yin yang symbol as part of his family coat of arms when he was knighted in 1947."

 

nice   

 

 

We have a few physicists who post here.

 

OK, I give up! This post insists on including my reply within the quoted text...

Edited February 27, 2017 by Brian

[windwalker]

"We have a few physicists who post here. "

 

On this topic?

 

If so good, they should be able to explain or relate how they quantum physics relates and why

and explain the difference between that and Newtonian physics and why one would not use this 

way to explain things. 

 

They should be able to offer examples that people can try and do illustrating the approaches. 

[Brian]

Food for thought...

 

Organisms might be quantum machines

Discovery of quantum vibrations in 'microtubules' inside brain neurons supports controversial theory of consciousness

Quantum cognition: The possibility of processing with nuclear spins in the brain

 

The idea here being that the traditional view of "quantum physics" being an abstract concept divorced from "everyday experiences" is increasingly being shown to be a naïve viewpoint. "Quantum physics" happens all around us and we are only beginning to wrap our heads around that.

[windwalker]

"For example Quantum Physics will show that a particle can be in two places at once.  Taoism explains there is not-two.  There is not even one, there is no-thingness.   Scientists are like hungry people who are busy eating the garnish while missing the main meal.  Doesn't mean they never have anything interesting to say but they won't find the answer to the beginning of the universe and the meaning of life because there was no beginning and there is no meaning  :)"

 

But they can show and test their theories and understanding.

With this understanding they can and do, invent and make things that function based on this.

 

If your saying they won't find the answer would this mean that you have the answer and 

can show and test it? 

 

What does having the answer if you do, do for you?  

questions asked in the spirit of discussion  

 

I've met many taiji people in my time who know the many theories

of taiji but can not really put it to use... 

[windwalker]

Food for thought...

 

Organisms might be quantum machines

Discovery of quantum vibrations in 'microtubules' inside brain neurons supports controversial theory of consciousness

Quantum cognition: The possibility of processing with nuclear spins in the brain

 

The idea here being that the traditional view of "quantum physics" being an abstract concept divorced from "everyday experiences" is increasingly being shown to be a naïve viewpoint. "Quantum physics" happens all around us and we are only beginning to wrap our heads around that.

 

Agree very interesting stuff.  But to say "quantum physics happens all around us" is to my mind not really saying anything. 

its just a name, a view point applied to "something" observed that helps in understanding for those seeking it. What would one have to wrap their heads around?  

 

Used to work in the semiconductor industry.

 

"  As of 2016 the most advanced form of photolithography is immersion lithography, in which water is used as an immersion medium for the final lens. It is being applied to the 16 nm and 14 nm nodes, with the required use of multiple patterning."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Next-generation_lithography

 

In this work one has to wrap their heads around it because at this level of interaction things often behave in unexpected ways.

Edited February 27, 2017 by windwalker

[Brian]

People don't need to understand, contemplate or even be aware of classical physics to walk across the street and get a cup of coffee even though they are relying on concepts and principles described by classical mechanics every part of the way. Similarly, people don't need to understand, contemplate or even be aware of quantum physics to grow geraniums or to use a cellphone or to think or to simply exist as a corporeal being (define that however you wish ) even though they are relying on concepts and principles described by quantum mechanics every part of the way.

 

Until fairly recently, the extension of quantum principles into the macro world was theoretical at best and mainly the stuff of science fiction. Research in the last few decades, however, makes it increasingly clear that this extension is not only valid but necessary for many "mundane" processes -- like photosynthesis. What is more intriguing to me is the level at which we are actively and deliberately using macro-quantum effects without the beneficiaries of these technical applications of highly advanced modern physics having the foggiest notion what is happening. Personally, I think some rudimentary understanding of how something works better prepares that person to use it with intentionality -- whether that is a basic understanding of gravity or of Newton's laws of motion or of basic optics or of emectromagnetics or of entanglement or of superconductors or of quantum interference. One doesn't need to know how an MRI or a MagLev train works but curiosity about such things leads inevitably to an inquiry into quantum physics.

 

I'm just weird, of course, but I find things like the quantum entanglement of earring-sized diamonds or clouds of gasses quite significant, and the entry into the scientific lexicon of Carroll's "boojum" to be fascinating: http://www.economics.soton.ac.uk/staff/aldrich/boojum.pdf

Edited February 27, 2017 by Brian

[Deltrus]

I've actually figured out  a large proportion of the quantum physics aspect of the human body.

 

In my quest to solve diseases I started with western science and eventually made my own branch of science to do with the quantum mechanics of particles in our body. It is a comprehensive theory, going all the way from anti-oxidants to water to ion homeostasis to consciousness to the immune system to the true form of the fabric of reality. All of it is quantum mechanics and interaction of small particles. Our entire universe is probably a small particle as well.

 

I've literally went through like 30,000 ideas and trashed 29,900 before I found the true form of what I was looking for. The ability to criticize my ideas is why reality is slowly being filtered away from falsehood. Critical thinking, scrutinizing every idea against reality, constantly finding mistakes, is what makes a person move towards their goal.

 

Sadly I'm still recovering from illness, and my energy field keeps on getting depleted, which leads to constant crashing whenever I try to exert myself and try to share my ideas.

 

Luckily I think I'm past the hardest part. I should rapidly increase in health very soon. 

Edited February 27, 2017 by Deltrus

[Deltrus]

Man I'm having some crazy ideas today.

 

What if, when we think of ideas, we are actually becoming aware of other dimensions, and these dimensions exist as infinitely smaller particles in our brains, each particle contains a particle, contains a particle, and so on? And these infinite particles eventually give rise to the human? What if our biology doesn't just go down to the DNA level, or the cell level, but actually goes down infinitely deep into infinite dimensions of particles?

 

All we have to do is strive to become aware of a dimension which contains our desires, one that is extremely similar to our own dimension in terms of particle physics, and then we can use that dimension in order to manipulate our own?

 

That would certainly explain how we have an intuitive understanding of quantum mechanics even though we have no understanding. First evolution finds particles which can reliably duplicate themselves, then we find particles that can duplicate themselves and also are aware of themselves, then we find particles that can duplicate and become aware and have matching particle physics to  our reality. 

 

The key is awareness, the more aware you are, the more subdimensions you can enter. And the universal law of all cells in the human body, the one "awareness" that goes down infinitely deep, is the "breath". Breath permeates all life. 

Edited February 27, 2017 by Deltrus

[Brian]

I find that most people don't have an intuitive understanding of quantum mechanics. Heck! I find that most people don't have an intuitive understanding of classical (Newtonian) mechanics. Most people can't describe the path a ball takes when thrown even though they've been sending balls into the air (or watching balls sent into the air) for most of their lives, or describe in rough terms how they are able to ride a bicycle.

 

Like I said, "understanding" isn't necessary for "doing" (but I think it allows for a more robust experience once "thinking about it" isn't getting in the way anymore...)

Edited February 27, 2017 by Brian

[dwai]

Man I'm having some crazy ideas today.

 

What if, when we think of ideas, we are actually becoming aware of other dimensions, and these dimensions exist as infinitely smaller particles in our brains, each particle contains a particle, contains a particle, and so on? And these infinite particles eventually give rise to the human? What if our biology doesn't just go down to the DNA level, or the cell level, but actually goes down infinitely deep into infinite dimensions of particles?

 

All we have to do is strive to become aware of a dimension which contains our desires, one that is extremely similar to our own dimension in terms of particle physics, and then we can use that dimension in order to manipulate our own?

 

That would certainly explain how we have an intuitive understanding of quantum mechanics even though we have no understanding. First evolution finds particles which can reliably duplicate themselves, then we find particles that can duplicate themselves and also are aware of themselves, then we find particles that can duplicate and become aware and have matching particle physics to  our reality. 

 

all of us are nothing but pure consciousness. Matter, body, etc are mere projections

[Deltrus]

all of us are nothing but pure consciousness. Matter, body, etc are mere projections

 

I have a feeling this is the truth, although in order to share this truth, it must be taught to the populace through linking to ideas that they already know.  And if you told a person that they are pure consciousness, and the universe is pure consciousness, and everything is one, they wouldn't understand.

 

But if you had a goal of relating  everything you learn to basic science that everyone knows, it means everyone would understand. Education synchronizes the population such that everyone's awareness becomes in tune, all aware of the same thing or very similar things.

Edited February 27, 2017 by Deltrus