This what having no compassion looks like

[blackstar212]

http://www.alternet.org/immigration/brain-tumor-patient-detained-ice

 

 

 

Law vs compassion personally I will take compassion every single time. I would like to hear reasons why compassion should be forsaken over law?

[Spotless]

The orders come from the top, they are carried out by the bottom and if things go poorly the guys at the bottom are reprimanded.

 

This is dis-connect

Edited February 24, 2017 by Spotless

[Marblehead]

Well, if I invaded your house wouldn't you try to get rid of me by any means necessary?

[blackstar212]

Well, if I invaded your house wouldn't you try to get rid of me by any means necessary?

You consider that equivalent?

[Brian]

She is fortunate that she was in custody by ICE at the time so that her brain tumor could be diagnosed in a US hospital. The Salvadoran government will do the compassionate thing and quickly return her to her home country for treatment and long-term care, right?

 

Or are you saying the US taxpayer is obligated to provide whatever care is deemed appropriate and compassionate to anyone who sneaks across the border? If you come home from work and find a homeless guy has moved into your guest bedroom, are you obligated to not only let him stay there but feed and clothe him, too? If he turns out to have tuberculosis, are you then obligated to pay his medical bills out of your pocket? If you do and two more sick people move into your den while you are at the hospital with the first guy, does that obligation extend to them, too? Would your ability or lack thereof to afford those mounting expenses matter?

[blackstar212]

She is fortunate that she was in custody by ICE at the time so that her brain tumor could be diagnosed in a US hospital. The Salvadoran government will do the compassionate thing and quickly return her to her home country for treatment and long-term care, right?

 

Or are you saying the US taxpayer is obligated to provide whatever care is deemed appropriate and compassionate to anyone who sneaks across the border? If you come home from work and find a homeless guy has moved into your guest bedroom, are you obligated to not only let him stay there but feed and clothe him, too? If he turns out to have tuberculosis, are you then obligated to pay his medical bills out of your pocket? If you do and two more sick people move into your den while you are at the hospital with the first guy, does that obligation extend to them, too? Would your ability or lack thereof to afford those mounting expenses matter?

If you have the ability to help then yes you help. If you cannot help then that is understandable.

[Brian]

If you have the ability to help then yes you help. If you cannot help then that is understandable.

How many sick people who are not your family members currently live in your house?

 

Every US taxpayer should be familiar with this website: http://www.usdebtclock.org/

[blackstar212]

How many sick people who are not your family members currently live in your house?

 

Every US taxpayer should be familiar with this website: http://www.usdebtclock.org/

"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

[Brian]

"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

That's not answering the question. Is it safe to assume that you have no sick people living in your home?

[blackstar212]

That's not answering the question. Is it safe to assume that you have no sick people living in your home?

It is a rhetorical question with no need to answer. How often do homeless people enter into someones home and lay in their beds? Not often. So the question is not relevant.

[Brian]

It is a rhetorical question with no need to answer. How often do homeless people enter into someones home and lay in their beds? Not often. So the question is not relevant.

No, it is NOT a rhetorical question. How many people other than direct family members are you personally providing for voluntarily out of your own pocket?

 

Also, what makes you think people do not occupy other people's houses without permission? Just because it has never happened to you? What do you think happens when this does occur?

[blackstar212]

No, it is NOT a rhetorical question. How many people other than direct family members are you personally providing for voluntarily out of your own pocket?

 

Also, what makes you think people do not occupy other people's houses without permission? Just because it has never happened to you? What do you think happens when this does occur?

I would guess hundreds but I am not positive. How is it relative Brian?

[Brian]

I would guess hundreds but I am not positive. How is it relative Brian?

Wait, you guess that you are personally writing checks to cover the expenses of hundreds of specific individuals? That you have encountered hundreds people for whom you personally felt sorry and you decided, out of the goodness of your heart, to pay for their medical bills and their housing expenses and their food & clothing? That you are currently doing that right now, personally and voluntarily -- but you aren't really positive???

 

Ummm... Yeah. That sounds believable.

 

It is relevant because it goes to integrity.

 

Two scenarios:

I.

Person A sees Person B is in need of assistance and Person A volunteers his or her own resources (money, labor, etc.) to help Person B.

 

II.

Person A sees Person B is in need of assistance and Person A collaborates with Person C to use force to make Person D surrender his or her resources to help Person B.

 

 

See the difference?

[blackstar212]

Wait, you guess that you are personally writing checks to cover the expenses of hundreds of specific individuals? That you have encountered hundreds people for whom you personally felt sorry and you decided, out of the goodness of your heart, to pay for their medical bills and their housing expenses and their food & clothing? That you are currently doing that right now, personally and voluntarily -- but you aren't really positive???

 

Ummm... Yeah. That sounds believable.

 

It is relevant because it goes to integrity.

 

Two scenarios:

I.

Person A sees Person B is in need of assistance and Person A volunteers his or her own resources (money, labor, etc.) to help Person B.

 

II.

Person A sees Person B is in need of assistance and Person A collaborates with Person C to use force to make Person D surrender his or her resources to help Person B.

 

 

See the difference?

I do. And thank you for making my point in the original post. D has a lack of compassion. Which is ok I am merely point out the lack of compassion and this proves my point.

[Brian]

I do. And thank you for making my point in the original post. D has a lack of compassion. Which is ok I am merely point out the lack of compassion and this proves my point.

LMFAO

 

Uh-huh.

 

You make the false assumption that Person D is not compassionate and charitable elsewhere simply because he is being extorted.

 

Bleeding Heart Tightwads

Are Conservatives Really More Charitable? Or Just More Religious?

Who’s More Generous, Liberals or Conservatives?

Charitable Giving: Liberals vs. Conservatives

CHARITABLE GIVING: LIBERAL-LEFT VS. CONSERVATIVES

 

You'll notice that I included a HuffPo piece from a couple of years ago. The gist of that article is an attempt to say "if you ignore giving to anything with a religious affiliation, liberals are about as charitable as conservatives" but that is really the same as saying "conservatives give as freely to secular charities as liberals do and then they give even more." <shrug>

[blackstar212]

LMFAO

 

Uh-huh.

 

You make the false assumption that Person D is not compassionate and charitable elsewhere simply because he is being extorted.

 

Bleeding Heart Tightwads

Are Conservatives Really More Charitable? Or Just More Religious?

Who’s More Generous, Liberals or Conservatives?

Charitable Giving: Liberals vs. Conservatives

CHARITABLE GIVING: LIBERAL-LEFT VS. CONSERVATIVES

 

You'll notice that I included a HuffPo piece from a couple of years ago. The gist of that article is an attempt to say "if you ignore giving to anything with a religious affiliation, liberals are about as charitable as conservatives" but that is really the same as saying "conservatives give as freely to secular charities as liberals do and then they give even more." <shrug>

Well it appears that I am a conservable:) or a libervative

[Brian]

Well it appears that I am a conservable:) or a libervative

If you stopped chasing boogeymen and trying to paint everyone who doesn't agree with your proposed methodologies as an abhorrent and unnatural sociopathic, hate-filled bigot who wants to slaughter people, you might find that your values are largely aligned with classical liberalism -- and you might start to wonder why Progressivism almost always seems to result in just the opposite of its stated objective.

[Stosh]

http://www.alternet.org/immigration/brain-tumor-patient-detained-ice

 

 

 

Law vs compassion personally I will take compassion every single time. I would like to hear reasons why compassion should be forsaken over law?

You're making a false proposition with that statement, Law and compassion aren't opposites.

To rectify the idea you'd have to compare rule of law to rule of whim.

Rule of your whim would be screwed up. Failed states , where rule of law is gone , is the situation of being ruled by "compassion bestowed or withheld" and its a pretty ugly thing to have everyone's welfare hanging by the thread of else's whim. 

EX:

Can I drive my car? Well that depends on how compassionate I feel today , and IF I feel more compassionate about pedestrians or drivers.

Can I speak my Mind ? Well , lemme decide if what you have to say is compassionate enough , and If I like it , you can say it. If I don't like it , I'm going to compassionately throw you in jail until you decide to be more nice like me, for everyones benefit. 

[silent thunder]

Justified is to me, at the root of this and many horrific sufferings manufactured unecessarily by humans on the world, other beings and themselves.

 

Justified is to me, if not the most horrifying, then in the top three most horrifying concept/words that exists.

[Stosh]

Considering oneself 'Justified' is indeed a problematic attitude , it removes responsibility for harshness from the individual. Dropping justification or lack of it, and you basically end up with legal vs illegal. Blackstar wishes to consider himself justified in defying rule of law to abide in his own idea of compassion. 

[Marblehead]

You consider that equivalent?

 

Although at different levels, yes.

[Marblehead]

"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

 

You are Jesus now?

 

And BTW, all they got from him was sympathy because he had no assets with which to help them.

[dust]

Just from the article, assuming what it says is true... an immigrant with a brain tumour detained without access to medical care simply because she's an immigrant? This is not acceptable.

 

Countries like the USA, UK, France, Iceland, etc, are subject to higher expectations than others. We are supposed to be the better places. Yes, in a general way -- there might even be an element of nationalism in this -- certain countries are supposed to be culturally superior. Many pride themselves with the notion that America is the land of the free, that opportunity and freedom and equality and justice are the highest ideals, yet a woman with a brain tumour can be treated so? When Trump says "Make America great again!", what is that supposed to mean? Imprison everyone a shade darker than cream? Be cruel to and distrustful of anyone born outside of the states?

Edited February 25, 2017 by dust

[dust]

Well, if I invaded your house wouldn't you try to get rid of me by any means necessary?

 

Not if you had a brain tumour. If you were sick or dying I would try to help you.

 

Knowing you who are... I'd see about an in-person discussion of Zhuangzi and a couple of beers.. and then I'd try and get rid of you by any means necessary..

[Stosh]

Dust,youre capable of sound rationale, make a fair argument , dont spin up strawman accusations. It means you dont believe that your own point can hold its own.

Trump hasnt imprisoned people by color , nor muslims for being muslim. Muslims from other places can still visit. Mexicans can still apply for citizenship, black americans can still walk around freely as whites as the law can determine.

Your appeal to a claim of cultural superiority is in itself what you are arguing is the fault of americans.

You think its appropriate, to abandon law as soon as someone cant stomach the burden of the collective conclusion? You think we dont understand the potential dire circumstance she might be in?

Society cant ignore its own laws and at the same time honor the right of its people to determine those laws. Laws become meaningless without enforcement, and enforcement is inherently unpleasant. Your hands wont be any cleaner for falsely vilifying those around you.

Edited February 25, 2017 by Stosh