Can Kunlun be lost?

[Yoda]

So, I've been doing Kunlun for about a month and I've been very much enjoying it.

 

The next question that comes to mind is that I'm wondering if the benefits of the practice can be torched by doing something stupid/bad karma/etc in this or another life.

 

Not that I'm planning on anything stupid, but I wouldn't put it past me!

 

I've heard it said that some practices the gains can be lost and in other practices, the gains are permanent.

 

The story Mantra told about the student of Max gaining siddhis and then losing them (and it seemed like he lost his will to practice too) makes me wonder about this. I'm not really worried about gaining and losing siddhis per se, but rather the underlying compassion/bliss/etc benefit.

[Sunya]

who is enjoying the kunlun? and who is caring about losing it?

Edited December 17, 2007 by mikaelz

[Yoda]

you know what I mean.

[hagar]

Yoda

 

From my limited experience and knowledge, yes some "powers" can be lost, and some are permanent.

 

But as I am sure you know, getting worried about "losing" a power, then you're allready down the wrong track.

 

I asked my master about if there are some in his system who were "worthy" of certain powers and skills, or if there was a way of telling who had the highest level of his advanced students.

He just said: Your question is allready proving you're not one of them. And no, you cannot see who has the highest level. The one in this room that is the most advanced is one who has nothing to lose. He pointed to a recently cleaned up drug addict who looked alot like Elvis just before he died.

 

If I have understood it correctly, there are different types and levels of effects and phases in practice that are based on transformation of chi, and these are all the same for any type of practice, and they cannot be lost, just like water that has been brought to the boilingpoint is never the same.

 

Then there are the qualitative transformations that may open up, almost like a pin code, a siddhi, or skill. These are transmission-based and can be lost, either through energetic "malpractice", unethical behavoir, or grasping at the siddhi instead of what the siddhi can do for you at certain times. Then again, they can be regained again. Or atleast in most schools, sects or traditions, if you "repent".

 

What losing a siddhi that is opened through transmission is all about is closing the middle and upper dan tian through wasting your shen.

Actually, you can lose alot just by thinking too much, or wathcing TV, or talking too much, or sitting too much on this discussion board.

 

Just my 2 kr.

 

h

[三江源]

.

Edited March 17, 2015 by 三江源

[Guest winpro07]

There is a lady here in the Bay area from vietnam, a healer of exceptional ability. She became so well know after healing cancers, terminal brain tumors, and an old man with tremors his whole life, that word got out in chinatown where the old man lived, and a mob of people showed up expecting to be healed. She sat for three days healing everyone who showed up, until the streets in downtown became totally blocked with cars, and people trying to get in...Her friends rushed her covered from view out a back door to a car, and sped away. She took a break after that, and healed ony people in dire need like my friend who had overdosed on alcohol, then drove to work walking into an air lock where they stored heavy metals. Is was only safe to enter the lock wearing a special suit with an external air supply, and only for five minutes at a time. He walked in ,in critical condition from alcohol poisoning, and passed out on the floor. A worker found him fifteen minutes later, and attemted to revive him. He came to in a near death terror, ran to his car, and drove to a hospital. If a nurse walking down the hall hadn't heard the sound of him falling behind an air conditioner unit out side the ER doors the rest of this story would not be matter. The doctors had him wired up to all the equipment they had, and on all the morphine his body could handel. His splean, and gall blader were were infected to the point of bursting, and said even though his body was in constant convulsion from the pain -stapped down, any more pain killer would kill him. I called the healer, and asked her to help. She was very reluctant, and stated that all the work she had done before healing so many, had burned her out, and she knew that one more time would be the end for her -no more ability. Consenting she arrived at the hospital where he was shaking on the tabled. The doctors already told the everyone that he had not more that four hours to live. She placed her hands on his abdomen where the spleen was swollen like a soft ball. Immediatley he stopped shaking, and smiled. The next day i checked on him - the ER had already set up a recovery room for him, and were preparing to move him there. A scanned was used when he was first brought into the ER, and showed very high levels of led, zinc, and gold in his body. Two days later the same scan was done, and found that all the metals were gone. I have had converstaion with her in the years since. She believs she burned her out. her ability is gone....

So, I've been doing Kunlun for about a month and I've been very much enjoying it.

 

The next question that comes to mind is that I'm wondering if the benefits of the practice can be torched by doing something stupid/bad karma/etc in this or another life.

 

Not that I'm planning on anything stupid, but I wouldn't put it past me!

 

I've heard it said that some practices the gains can be lost and in other practices, the gains are permanent.

 

The story Mantra told about the student of Max gaining siddhis and then losing them (and it seemed like he lost his will to practice too) makes me wonder about this. I'm not really worried about gaining and losing siddhis per se, but rather the underlying compassion/bliss/etc benefit.

[Yoda]

Thanks for everyone's thoughts, very interesting!

 

Speaking of siddhis, I've heard that no master can bring back more than three people back from the dead. After they hit three, they have to stop. Even the big guns like Jesus, Buddha, etc couldn't go past 3. No explanation given.

 

Mantra's story involved the loss of siddhi due to making a deal with someone who didn't have the best intent. He said that siddhis are gifts from the divine realms and can be revoked if you piss off the giver(s).

 

I got that part and that makes sense to me. The part I'm wondering about is that the guy seemed to lose heart, ambition, will to practice and went back to drug use, etc.

 

I want a practice where I can do wretchedly awful things to my fellow human beings and still keep my gains! Is that too much to ask?

 

I don't mean that I'm interested in avoiding picking up the negative karma from being a dickhead, things like that happen, but I don't want to lose the signal 1,000 lifetimes down the road.

 

As long as I stay out of the gunshop, I'm pretty confident that I won't do anything evil in this lifetime, but just looking out for my interests down the road.

 

Yoda

[Cameron]

Ummm...since we are on the topic.

 

What sort of powers are people even interested in?

 

All of this blah,blah,blah about abilities I haven't heard much about what people are interested in developing.

 

Like..do you want to be able to speak to others telapathically..or read peoples minds..or start fires with your qi..or throw people across the room without them wanting it..or basic Sith stuff like shooting lighting out of your fingertips?

 

For me..I am a martial artist..if I can get to the point where I can throw people like Max seems to do without touching them that would be cool.

 

But with the intent to have fun not to impress chics or anything of course..and not to hurt people..more like a game or something.

 

Yoda would give up one of his kids for the chance to ride with some aliens on a dimensional tour of the cosmos one day so I am hoping that happens for him(without any human sacrifices of course).

[hagar]

Yoda:

 

My answer was my no means an expression of disapproval of your very good question!

 

In due time I think it will all seem much clearer to me too, but talking from my own experience, this is not very complicated:

 

If I act like a horses ass, my practice suffers

 

h

[Ian]

So, I've been doing Kunlun for about a month and I've been very much enjoying it.

 

The next question that comes to mind is that I'm wondering if the benefits of the practice can be torched by doing something stupid/bad karma/etc in this or another life.

 

Not that I'm planning on anything stupid, but I wouldn't put it past me!

 

I've heard it said that some practices the gains can be lost and in other practices, the gains are permanent.

 

Not sure if this is totally relevant to your question, but...

 

(And... this is not from experience, but quoting from my favourite dead teacher and a conversation with my live one, who said the same exact thing!)

 

So, what I got told was, the only thing that accumulates, that you keep from one human life to another, is Presence. Meaning being in the reality in the body and needing no stimulus.

 

Everything else, be it bliss, bad karma, suffering, finally getting the girl/power/ car etc., gets burned off in the appropriate realm until you're clear enough to get back to somewhere like here and build more presence.

 

In short, what is significant can't be lost, but much less than we imagine is significant.

 

Hope helps,

Your pal too,

Ian

[三江源]

.

Edited March 17, 2015 by 三江源

[Mantra68]

With Kunlun you cannot lose anything in terms of opening up and understanding your relationship to the divine.

 

Understanding cannot be taken from you, only forgotten if you allow it. In order to have this human existence we have all allowed that in varying degrees.

 

You do create your own reality and when you open to the higher levels you become closer to the creator and much more effective as a co-creator.

 

Divine mind is the core of what you are.

 

When you are beginning and experiencing siddhas for the first time, you are still in a kind of testing phase. It is here that another's will can be imposed upon you and a pattern imprinted that you will follow unless you know how to counter it.

 

What this guy did was to open himself up to someone who did not have good intentions and also understood how to absorb his higher vibrational energy. She then dumped some of her accumulated crap energy onto him to carry as a burden.

 

Not a win-win situation.

 

If you understand anything about this sort of thing you realize that she didn't get away clean. There are repercussions for this kind of thing and she will pay in her own way.

 

Here is where we start getting into sorcery.

 

There are many groups who practice this form of energy accumulation. Most of them use virgins or children as their food source because they have a more pure essence.

 

We have had some girls in our classes whose children have been subjected to these vampiric sexual ceremonies and let me tell ya, you don't want to be there to hear the kind of screaming rage that comes out of them when the Kunlun opens it up. It is a different level of outrage than most of us can know and it makes your blood curdle. I still shudder when I think about it.

 

Evil sucks.

 

Just do Kunlun and you can tap into your own divine pure essence. No outside source necessary.

[voidisyinyang]

It sounds like Max is not teaching energy tranmission -- except through the eyes. That's how I currently practice energy transmission. Once the third eye energy channels are open then it is true that peoples' lower emotions due get sucked up through the full-lotus and then shot back out at the person as bliss-light transmission as guided by the consciousness or female formless awareness.

 

This source or female formless awareness is the only real HARMONY and it's beyond spacetime -- it's what enables power but the power has to be stored in the body in order for it to be built up.

 

From listening to the Max radio interview it's pretty clear he works to open up peoples' third eye as soon as he thinks they can handle it in conjunction with that person harmonizing their own energy, etc. Then he teaches people to work on storing their own energy, through celibacy, a minimal diet (to maintain an electromagnetic field rather than an electrochemical field), etc. This is called a "modified bigu" diet. Only by storing up the energy can the third eye be opened up FURTHER.

 

As the third eye opens up it is true that powers will naturally come with this. When I was doing my intensive training under qigong master Chunyi Lin I went 8 days on only half a glass of water yet I was never hungry and needed less sleep as I practiced. I had entered "bigu." At the end of that I could see dead spirits, and I healed my mom of a serious leg condition so she doesn't need surgical stockings. But the electromagnetic fields shooting out of my third eye were so strong that I also had telepathy, telekinesis and precognition and I accidently pulled this old lady's spirit out of her head. She was fine but she did bawl for at least 15 minutes straight. I had never touched her.

 

Anyway my energy was freaking people out and me as well -- I had gone too fast -- so I stopped practicing but then qigong master chunyi Lin touched his finger to my forehead and shot bliss-light into the center of my brain. Ever since it's been permanent and I can flex my pineal gland at will. I even stopped practicing for a couple months to see if the magnetic bliss in the center of my brain would go away and it didn't.

 

But my power has never been as strong as it was when I did my training although I do have more AWARENESS of how lower emotions of people around me are transformed in my own body and then shot out of my third eye as bliss-light. I've also read one book a day for the past 7 years (since my intensive training) just to be able to compare my experiences with whats out there.

 

This is just a natural process of the female formless awareness which is always already our true state of peace and the source of love -- based out of the heart.

[Mantra68]

It sounds like Max is not teaching energy tranmission -- except through the eyes. That's how I currently practice energy transmission. Once the third eye energy channels are open then it is true that peoples' lower emotions due get sucked up through the full-lotus and then shot back out at the person as bliss-light transmission as guided by the consciousness or female formless awareness.

He simply connects with your nervous system and transfers the knowledge and the ability that way. Not necessarily via the third eye, most of the time by touch.

 

Also, we don't do full lotus as a practice.

 

Sounds like you have had some pretty interesting experiences.

 

Cool.

 

Chris

[WhiteTiger]

Yoda

 

From my limited experience and knowledge, yes some "powers" can be lost, and some are permanent.

 

But as I am sure you know, getting worried about "losing" a power, then you're allready down the wrong track.

 

I asked my master about if there are some in his system who were "worthy" of certain powers and skills, or if there was a way of telling who had the highest level of his advanced students.

He just said: Your question is allready proving you're not one of them. And no, you cannot see who has the highest level. The one in this room that is the most advanced is one who has nothing to lose. He pointed to a recently cleaned up drug addict who looked alot like Elvis just before he died.

 

If I have understood it correctly, there are different types and levels of effects and phases in practice that are based on transformation of chi, and these are all the same for any type of practice, and they cannot be lost, just like water that has been brought to the boilingpoint is never the same.

 

Then there are the qualitative transformations that may open up, almost like a pin code, a siddhi, or skill. These are transmission-based and can be lost, either through energetic "malpractice", unethical behavoir, or grasping at the siddhi instead of what the siddhi can do for you at certain times. Then again, they can be regained again. Or atleast in most schools, sects or traditions, if you "repent".

 

What losing a siddhi that is opened through transmission is all about is closing the middle and upper dan tian through wasting your shen.

Actually, you can lose alot just by thinking too much, or wathcing TV, or talking too much, or sitting too much on this discussion board.

 

Just my 2 kr.

 

h

 

Well said! Yet i don't fully understand all of what you said. I agree with everything else. I would choose to say more directly if you have opened up certain channels, part way, It will be much easier to open them back again to the level you had them before beyond that it takes more effort for whatever reason you failed to put forth. If you have fully opened them fully you wouldn't be asking that question because you would have no worrying happening.

 

I want a practice where I can do wretchedly awful things to my fellow human beings and still keep my gains! Is that too much to ask?

 

 

If i understand what your asking then your talking about going against the Tao, not fully (can never be done fully) but yet still be in the Tao.

 

From my proper understanding you must find another to put up with all this pain and still be in a relationship with you. This is not the way that Lao Tzu spoke of. I believe this does waste the life spand of your physical body. (when i say going against the Tao i don't mean going in opposite direction of the tao, yet while in the tao, going against its principles.)

 

P.S. Honestly I don't believe i have a well enough understanding of hows the best way or the better way of explaining this without mis saying that is improper. My education in this area in weak in other words. Maybe if one is able to understand what i mean and reword it or maybe one is kind of get an idea for what I'm saying. I can and have seen this happen. I can conceptualize it, but lack the ability to fully verbally articulate it. Though i hope what I have said helps.

 

Not sure if this is totally relevant to your question, but...

 

(And... this is not from experience, but quoting from my favourite dead teacher and a conversation with my live one, who said the same exact thing!)

 

So, what I got told was, the only thing that accumulates, that you keep from one human life to another, is Presence. Meaning being in the reality in the body and needing no stimulus.

 

Everything else, be it bliss, bad karma, suffering, finally getting the girl/power/ car etc., gets burned off in the appropriate realm until you're clear enough to get back to somewhere like here and build more presence.

 

In short, what is significant can't be lost, but much less than we imagine is significant.

 

Hope helps,

Your pal too,

Ian

 

If you think about this very hard. Or rather have a little insight to what is truly significant. This is a genius remark. I really do like it. Thanks for sharing!!!

 

With Kunlun you cannot lose anything in terms of opening up and understanding your relationship to the divine.

 

Understanding cannot be taken from you, only forgotten if you allow it. In order to have this human existence we have all allowed that in varying degrees.

 

You do create your own reality and when you open to the higher levels you become closer to the creator and much more effective as a co-creator.

 

Divine mind is the core of what you are.

 

When you are beginning and experiencing siddhas for the first time, you are still in a kind of testing phase. It is here that another's will can be imposed upon you and a pattern imprinted that you will follow unless you know how to counter it.

 

What this guy did was to open himself up to someone who did not have good intentions and also understood how to absorb his higher vibrational energy. She then dumped some of her accumulated crap energy onto him to carry as a burden.

 

Not a win-win situation.

 

If you understand anything about this sort of thing you realize that she didn't get away clean. There are repercussions for this kind of thing and she will pay in her own way.

 

Here is where we start getting into sorcery.

 

There are many groups who practice this form of energy accumulation. Most of them use virgins or children as their food source because they have a more pure essence.

 

We have had some girls in our classes whose children have been subjected to these vampiric sexual ceremonies and let me tell ya, you don't want to be there to hear the kind of screaming rage that comes out of them when the Kunlun opens it up. It is a different level of outrage than most of us can know and it makes your blood curdle. I still shudder when I think about it.

 

Evil sucks.

 

Just do Kunlun and you can tap into your own divine pure essence. No outside source necessary.

 

Thank you for saying this! Truly thank you for saying it!

Edited December 21, 2007 by WhiteTiger

[Yoda]

fun thread, thanks!