Mair 5:6

[Marblehead]

"Are there really men without emotions?" Master Hui asked Master Chuang.

"Yes," said Master Chuang.

"If a man has no emotions," asked Master Hui, "how can he be called a man?"

"The Way gives him an appearance," said Master Chuang, "and heaven gives him a form.  How can he not be called a man?"

"Since he is called a man;" said Master Hui, "how can it be that he has no emotions?"

"That is not what I mean by emotions," said Master Chuang.  "What I mean by having no emotions is to say that a man should not inwardly harm his person with 'good' and 'bad,' but rather should accord with the spontaneous and not add to life."

"If he does not add to life," said Master Hui, "how can his person exist?"

"The Way gives him an appearance," said Master Chuang, "and heaven gives him a form.  He does not inwardly harm his person with preferences and aversions.  Now you, sir, dissipate your spirit and expend your essence by leaning against a tree while you mutter or by dozing over your study table.  Heaven granted you a form, sir, but you go on babbling about 'hard' and 'white.'"

[Taoist Texts]

 
 

  Heaven granted you a form, sir, but you go on babbling about 'hard' and 'white.'"

 

Meaning you are a Heavens's equal but still split yrslef into petty distinctions

Edited February 27, 2017 by Taoist Texts

[dawei]

 

 

 

Meaning you are a Heavens's equal but still split yrslef into petty distinctions

 

or, you turned One into Two

[Stosh]

or he's confused about how the extent to which one can remove oneself of responsibility from affecting on goings on,  without just being entirely moot , and essentially a non-person. To which Chuang suggests that its a silly abstract to think one wouldn't exist if he wasn't making waves. ( theres another subtext about Confu too) 

And Im saying this despite it indicating a mild rebuke from Cz on myself. 

Edited March 1, 2017 by Stosh

[Marblehead]

Yeah, sometimes we miss the real argument in the sections.  I guess this is why we are studying it.  To find what we are missing.

[Stosh]

Im glad you can see this being discussed in there too. Any person has this desire to be recognized , to make a mark, have an effect. ,Not to be noticed or achieve or stand out or be understood ,, is like a sort of invalidation, like being a nobody. I picture the teenager lamenting, Its like I dont even exist.

We discussed this a long time ago with ChiDragon. To what extent should one leave no footprint.

Here we see the Duke sitting on his ass facing south ,filling the position with a stuffed shirt, Confucious encouraging that lazy impulse , and so the Question arises, can I call this a man? Doesnt he want to BE something ? how far is this emptiness supposed to go? He asks Chuang. And Chuang says that the man still exists though not so storm tossed by his own motivations and need for external validation via struggle and contention, like an Ahab.

anyway , Thats how I read it .

Edited March 2, 2017 by Stosh

[Stosh]

Yeah, sometimes we miss the real argument in the sections.  I guess this is why we are studying it.  To find what we are missing.

Yeah, its great writing, levels of meaning.

[Marblehead]

Im glad you can see this being discussed in there too.

You said  lot in that post.  Choices, I suppose.

 

It seems that Chuang Tzu was always going places.  He for sure wasn't a hermit.  He had friends.  He visited with them.  Did he leave footprints?  Of course he did.

[Rara]

I love how Chuang Tzu repeats himself "The Way gives him an appearance and heaven gives him form".

 

As in...

 

"This isn't sinking in, is it? I'll try again"

 

Hahahaha

[Marblehead]

Sometimes repetition is the best teacher.

[Rara]

Sometimes repetition is the best teacher.

It always is. Practice makes perfect...repetition is practice.

 

So yes, in this context, same rule only that it's being passed from one person to another, as opposed to solo practice

[Stosh]

Sometimes the best teacher repeats himself.

[Rara]

Sometimes the best teacher repeats himself.

And the bad student says "booooooriiiiing"