Anyone familiar with a Taiwanese cult called the Dao Cultivators?

[sillybearhappyhoneyeater]

Asking out of interest because a friend of mine has been part of their group for several years and I want to get a bit more information about them.

It seems like they are an offshoot of yi guan dao and that they have a master who recently passed away in Taiwan.   They are religious in their orientation, although they attempt to attract adherents by suggesting that they are a collection of the wisdom of all religions  rather than a specific substrate.

They use the major texts of Daoism and Confucianism as their base and as far as I know are concerned with the practice of ritual and operate many holy houses in Canada, as well as likely the united states.

They are a closed door group and do not initiate people from the general public without first having an eye opening ceremony for that person.

I haven't been to any of their things since I am always a little sceptical of unknown elements which could very well be cults, but I'd be totally interested to know if anyone else has experience with them and what they believe and are like.

 

Thanks a lot,

 

Rob

[Ormus]

Can you give exact name?

Yi Guan Dao is famous and they also practice Nei Dan.I call them neo Daoist groups.There are good works about such groups designated as Salvation society or Redemptive Society and their part are Spirit Writing cult.To me they are interesting because of their claims to have superior method then Nei Dan and for direct communication with Xians.

I have big list of such groups and some books about them,and even some details about their work.

Maybe I can say more if you provide real name on Chinese and English.

 

To add that in exploring such groups I find details which looks similar or the same as those of Xiao Yao Pai from Indonesia.This I am to post in another tread.

 

Ormus

[Gerard]

Hey Rob,

 

I came across something similar (or even it well might be that group) when I lived in Taipei. I was approached by two a Canadians in the subway and offered to attend a meeting at the 'master's' home who offered his large apartment for the group gatherings, mostly foreigners, 1-2 Taiwanese at most. The location is/was Xinyi Rd, Daan district.

 

He had an impressive library of old textbooks and photographs of many Tibetan Buddhist yogis living in the Himalayas, not monks. I think Taoism and Tibetan Buddhism were his main sources of practice, not so much Confucianism...but let's beat in mind he is/was Taiwanese and Confucianism is already stratified in their lives, which explains why he offered the meetings without asking anything in return (it's also a Buddhist and Taoist thing anyway).

 

I found them as being heavily focused on talking and reading books (the completely opposite way of doing things correctly). After 2 meetings I stopped going. This was in 2005.

 

Regards.

Edited February 28, 2017 by Gerard

[awaken]

My mother is a follower of yi guan dao, but I am not.

 

They study a lot but don't practice.

[sillybearhappyhoneyeater]

My mother is a follower of yi guan dao, but I am not.

 

They study a lot but don't practice.

 

Yes!  Exactly.

one of my close friends was visited by an old man from Yiguan Dao who had started one of their first temples in the Americas and that man said sadly that after 60 years of studying, he just wasted his time.   It is such a pity for people who believe in that religion.

[sillybearhappyhoneyeater]

Hey Rob,

 

I came across something similar (or even it well might be that group) when I lived in Taipei. I was approached by two a Canadians in the subway and offered to attend a meeting at the 'master's' home who offered his large apartment for the group gatherings, mostly foreigners, 1-2 Taiwanese at most. The location is/was Xinyi Rd, Daan district.

 

He had an impressive library of old textbooks and photographs of many Tibetan Buddhist yogis living in the Himalayas, not monks. I think Taoism and Tibetan Buddhism were his main sources of practice, not so much Confucianism...but let's beat in mind he is/was Taiwanese and Confucianism is already stratified in their lives, which explains why he offered the meetings without asking anything in return (it's also a Buddhist and Taoist thing anyway).

 

I found them as being heavily focused on talking and reading books (the completely opposite way of doing things correctly). After 2 meetings I stopped going. This was in 2005.

 

Regards.

This group is somewhat different.  They are mostly Taiwanese with only one or two Canadian members (although they have a religious discussion group with many Canadians, most of them do not go behind the closed door to do the initiation and ritual stuff).

It seems like they are a weird group.  Very secretive, very focused on ritual and practice of something they call "three treasures" which is a kind of meditation I guess, but it doesn't seem like anything I am personally familiar with.

I'm only going second hand from my friend who joined them, because I haven't had the occasion to visit them and see what they do.

[awaken]

They are just a religion.

 

And I don't believe any religion.

 

But people need religions.

 

Let them keep their religions.

 

Their original master misunderstood dao a lot.

 

So they use the names of dao.

But they don't know anything about dao.

 

Not only yi Guam dao, many schools have the same situation.

 

People only see what they can see.

 

If they only see one percent of the universe, how can you expect they tell you the whole truth?

 

If I tell you Wu Liu pai has the similar situation, you might be very angry and attack me.

 

So let them keep their religions.

Edited March 2, 2017 by awaken

[damdao]

Very secretive, very focused on ritual and practice of something they call "three treasures" which is a kind of meditation I guess, but it doesn't seem like anything I am personally familiar with.

 

 

Those are (possibly): a five syllable mantra, a mudra and a concentration in the right location of the heavenly eye. Their origin is Yi guan dao, as it is the study of the five religions. 

As Ormus said, they (yi guan dao) have spirit writing too.

[Arkady Shadursky]

If I tell you Wu Liu pai has the similar situation, you might be very angry and attack me.

 

If I tell you awaken'Pai has much worse situation you might be very angry and attack me.

So let her keep her religion.

---

Arkady

 

P.S. Sorry, I couldn't resist   

Edited March 2, 2017 by Arkady Shadursky

[Taoist Texts]

 

 

If I tell you Wu Liu pai has the similar situation, you might be very angry and attack me.

 

 

That was some uncanny prescience, right there man!

[sillybearhappyhoneyeater]

Dear Awaken:

Stop this silly business!

I don't know anything about the situation of modern Wuliu people, nothing.  I know about Wu Liu Zong as two people who left behind a practice method of Nei Dan,  I don't know anything about the people who practice any religious stuff within their school, so we are talking about two completely different things here.

 

Regarding Yi Guan Dao, again, I only know some people around it, it isn't my cup of tea so to speak, but because my friend is involved with this group and because I want to make sure he will be safe with them, then I am asking about it on this forum.

I think we can all learn a big lesson which is that we don't need to put other people down to lift ourselves up. That is why I became angry with you in the first place, it is a matter of basic politeness and decency.

[Mig]

Why do you call it "cult"?. The connotation doesn't match with Chinese reality as far as I understand.

[awaken]

I think wu Liu pai in Russia is a cult, too.

 

They like to attack people badly, but say nothing useful.

[damdao]

I think wu Liu pai in Russia is a cult, too.

 

They like to attack people badly, but say nothing useful.

 

Sorry, but that is not what a cult means.

And you could win an interesting label for yourself bringing out again and again this subject of the blue ... 

[rene]

Regarding Yi Guan Dao, again, I only know some people around it, it isn't my cup of tea so to speak, but because my friend is involved with this group and because I want to make sure he will be safe with them, then I am asking about it on this forum.

Hi SillyBear,

 

You might check with Derek Lin, at the TeaHouse forum (if it's still around), or the taoism.net website - they are (or were) affiliated with YiGuanDao chapter in southern California.

 

Good luck!

[exorcist_1699]

Yi Guan Dao was quite an influential ,religious sect  which claimed followers of  300,000 by 1949  yet later severely suppressed  by the CCP  after her takeover of power on the Mainland , and only few of its leaders left fleeing to Taiwan .The group is itself   problematic  and hardly does any decent Taoist compare it to righteous schools ('名門正派') like the Wu-Liu or West School .

 

Why ?  You simply by reading what Liu Huayang and his apostles (for example, Zhao Bichen's )  said , or  what Wang Dongting ('汪東亭') ,  West School's main figure in the last century said , then you can judge . For example  , hardly do they preach any sexual practice ( originally  good but later degenerated into tools abused by evil guys  )  ,  visualization ( too trivial or overuse of minds.. )  or  muddling with politics..

Edited March 4, 2017 by exorcist_1699

[Ormus]

Hi Exorcist,

 

I agree with you regarding Wu Liu Pai and and sexual practice dual cultivation,but their Russian members on their forum claim opposite.Mainly that Master Wu recived pair cultivation and Wai Dan laboratory Alchemy but didnt provide any clue for this claims.

 

Ormus

[exorcist_1699]

Hi Exorcist,

 

I agree with you regarding Wu Liu Pai and and sexual practice dual cultivation,but their Russian members on their forum claim opposite.Mainly that Master Wu recived pair cultivation and Wai Dan laboratory Alchemy but didnt provide any clue for this claims.

 

Ormus

 

I think sexual cultivation between married couple is okay , but beyond that range , it is inappropriate  because  it is too easy to be used by bad guys, in whatever excuses ,  to advocate their bad ideas, so I seldom mention it ;  in fact, I know little about Taoist sex dual practice...,whenever I mention  dual cultivation , I refer to the intercourse between qi and Shen , which similarly can give us bodily and spiritual pleasure..

Edited March 4, 2017 by exorcist_1699

[Walker]

I think sexual cultivation  in married couple is okay , but beyond that range , it is inappropriate  because  it is too easy to be used by bad guys to advocate their bad ideas, so I seldom mention it ;  in fact, I know little about Taoist sex dual practice... 

whenever I mention  dual cultivation , I refer to the intercourse between qi and Shen...

 

Exactly. One of the most traditional and 正 Daoists I know had only this to say about sexual cultivation: "I have transmission in these methods, but I will never teach them. They are far too easily abused; in the past, everybody I knew who gained some degree of proficiency became drunk with power." I discussed the issue once with a Buddhist monk from Tibet and he shared similar ideas, although he did not claim to himself have learned these methods.

 

Ormus: remember, "absence of evidence is not evidence of absence." Even today, in the post-sexual revolution modern world, responsible Daoists and Buddhists are extremely reticent to talk about these methods. Why would we expect Daoists to have written openly about these things in books they penned during the Ming and Qing dynasties? To conclude from any Daoist book to know the entirety of what the author knew, believed, practiced, and taught is both extremely presumptuous as well as naive--one doesn't need to spend much time around Daoists to learn that they are big on keeping secrets!

[Zhongyongdaoist]

There is actually a very detailed article on Yi Guan Dao on Wikipedia, which includes several aspects, such as the "Three Treasures", mentioned here.  It is apparently a salvationist school of the "Great Mother" variety, originating in the Nineteenth Century, with roots extending back several centuries in China.  They are a "cult" in the original non-pejorative sense, but not necessarily dangerous in themselves, though to me at least, it doesn't seem like they have much going for them in terms of profound belief or practice.

[Mig]

There is actually a very detailed article on Yi Guan Dao on Wikipedia, which includes several aspects, such as the "Three Treasures", mentioned here.  It is apparently a salvationist school of the "Great Mother" variety, originating in the Nineteenth Century, with roots extending back several centuries in China.  They are a "cult" in the original non-pejorative sense, but not necessarily dangerous in themselves, though to me at least, it doesn't seem like they have much going for them in terms of profound belief or practice.

In the title of this thread it was said "cult" which didn't clarify to define this type of cult. Maybe you were saying: sect, denomination, group, movement, church, persuasion, body, faction I wonder how people in Taiwan or China see yiguan dao as a group in their communities. What is interesting to see is how Daoism is including in their beliefs and still co-exist with other religious beliefs.

[dawei]

In the title of this thread it was said "cult" which didn't clarify to define this type of cult. Maybe you were saying: sect, denomination, group, movement, church, persuasion, body, faction I wonder how people in Taiwan or China see yiguan dao as a group in their communities. What is interesting to see is how Daoism is including in their beliefs and still co-exist with other religious beliefs.

 

The title includes "Cultivators"  , not cult.

 

I find them rather religious with a slightly cult like mentality but not sure I'd call them a cult... but they are exclusionary if you don't agree with their ideas.   But Derek Lin's translation and commentary on the DDJ is quite good.  I've talked to him a few times and find him quite approachable and open to talk.   I think they are more religious than not, but what does that matter.   Not sure the problem here. 

[awaken]

In the title of this thread it was said "cult" which didn't clarify to define this type of cult. Maybe you were saying: sect, denomination, group, movement, church, persuasion, body, faction I wonder how people in Taiwan or China see yiguan dao as a group in their communities. What is interesting to see is how Daoism is including in their beliefs and still co-exist with other religious beliefs.

There are many kinds of religions in Taiwan.

 

People get used to see so many different religions in one community or in one family.

 

The Daoism you know is very different from the people in Taiwan do.

 

Only Christian in Taiwan don't do manism.

 

Most people do manism.

 

No conflict at all.

 

In Taiwan, Daoism looks like a cult then yi guan dao.

 

Let's see some video.

 

This is a activity of Daoism.

 

https://zh.m.wikipedia.org/zh-tw/鹽水蜂炮

 

https://youtu.be/QevOoZpDKcs

 

Very crazy.

 

The gods of small temple are invited to other temple.

 

They walk on the road and make a lot of noise.

 

https://zh.m.wikipedia.org/zh-tw/大甲媽祖遶境進香活動

 

 

https://youtu.be/8aKS-J8yUgY

 

https://youtu.be/ENsM5gZAdFY

 

https://youtu.be/FdxHkpAMWxk

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mazu_(goddess)

 

This is the biggest religion in Taiwan , Daoism.

 

But this Daoism is very different from what you know in the forum.

 

 

The religions in Taiwan are very free.

 

No matter how 'cult' you are , no problem, unless you break the law.

 

Cult in Taiwan are everywhere.

 

Religions reflect people's mind and thought.

 

 

Good religions could have evil people. Cult religions could have good people.

 

If your mind is evil, people will treat your religion or school as a cult.

 

For example, some people think their religion are very good and like to attack other's people religion as a cult.

 

I think this kind of behavior will make people think your school are cult, very 'cult'.

Edited March 5, 2017 by awaken

[Mig]

The title includes "Cultivators"  , not cult.

 

I find them rather religious with a slightly cult like mentality but not sure I'd call them a cult... but they are exclusionary if you don't agree with their ideas.   But Derek Lin's translation and commentary on the DDJ is quite good.  I've talked to him a few times and find him quite approachable and open to talk.   I think they are more religious than not, but what does that matter.   Not sure the problem here. 

The title says Taiwanese cult. As I was curious about this cult thing, I just happened to read about this:

 

https://www.thechinastory.org/dossier/the-eleven-most-active-religious-cults-in-china/

 

Taking its cue from a report on People’s Daily Online, the Daily Mirror (晶报) newspaper from Guangdong yesterday reported on “evil cults” (邪教) in China, in the wake of the murder of a woman in a McDonald’s outlet in Zhaoyuan (招远), Shandong province, by six members of the “Almighty God” (全能神) cult on May 28. The report, based on findings released by the China Anti-Cult Association, lists the eleven most active religious cults in China currently. The report notes a warning from the Association, however, that in addition to the cults listed below, there are many other cults that are holding gatherings, proselytizing and causing trouble. Eight cults are named in this regard, such as the South China Church (华南教会) and the World Gospel Evangelical Church of Christ (世界以利亚福音宣教会).

The following are the eleven most active religious cults in China, and comments on some of the commentary on each as published in yesterday’s Daily Mirror:

1. Falun Gong (法轮功): Founded in the early 1990s, have committed many crimes. Leader Li Hongzhi (李洪志) exercises “extreme spiritual control” over followers.
2. Almighty God (全能神): Split off from The Shout (呼喊派, see below) in the 1990s, when it became a separate entity under the leadership of Zhao Weishan (赵维山). The cult believes that the one true God revealed himself as a second Christ in the form of an Asian woman to save the Chinese nation. Zhao fled China for the US in 2000; many members of the cult have committed crimes of homicide and public disorder, with the latest being the murder of the woman in a McDonald’s outlet in Shandong on May 28.
3. The Shout (呼喊派): Established by Li Changshou (李常受), a US citizen, in 1962 in the US, the cult has a presence all over the world and many links with other religious organizations, and tries to organize in mainland China as well.
4. The Disciple Society (门徒会): Established by Shaanxi peasant Li Sanbao (季三保, original name 季忠杰) in 1989, this cult considers itself a Christian sect; its illegal activities include what it calls “passing on the gospel”. The cult considers the present world a black-and-white, confused mass that will be destroyed in a great flood.
5. Unification Church (统一教): Established in Busan, South Korea in 1954, this cult seeks to exert extensive control over followers, and makes use of so-called “Ideal Households” (理想家庭) where inhabitants are paired for marriage by elder members of the cult.
6. Guanyin Method (观音法门): Established in Taiwan in 1988 by a woman named Shi Qinghai (释清海), who styles herself as “supreme teacher” equal to Siddharta Gautama, Jesus Christ, and Allah.
7. Bloody Holy Spirit (血水圣灵): With its current headquarters in Taiwan, this cult is at present under the leadership of a man named Zuo Kun (左坤), who fled Taiwan for the US after coming under suspicion as a cult leader. In recent years this cult has been actively recruiting new members and accumulating wealth in mainland China.
8. All Ranges Church (全范围教会): Established by Xu Yongze (徐永泽) in 1984; Xu subsequently fled to the US in 2000. The “all ranges” doctrine of the church is built on three key concepts, namely big (大), wide (广), and deep (深), by which all people should be brought to Christ and co-rule with Christ in a godly nation. Meetings of this cult are marked by loud wailing to confess sins.
9. Three Grades of Servants (三班仆人派): Established by Xu Wenku (徐文库) in 1986. Calling himself the servant of God (神的仆人), Xu went to preach the gospel in northeastern China, and made extensive use of the Gospel of Matthew. This cult is considered extremely dangerous, as it is responsible for 21 murders all over China.
10. True Buddha School (灵仙真佛宗): Established by the American Chinese Lu Shengyan (卢胜彦) in Taiwan 1979, the cult’s headquarters is located in Seattle. Lu calls himself a “living Buddha”, and advocates for his followers to reach true enlightenment by surpassing all earthly worries and fantasies.
11. Chinese Mainland Administrative Deacon Station (中华大陆行政执事站): Established by former Shout member Wang Yongmin (王永民) in 1994, Wang considers himself to be the one true deacon. The cult is aimed at expanding the kingdom of God, and inhibiting the kingdom of Satan, and adheres to a doctrine of an approaching end of the world.

[exorcist_1699]

Whether  it advocates a Righteous Mind ( '正念' ;  a mindless Mind ) or not should be used as the criterion to judge a religious cultivation or group , no matter  it claims itself Taoist , Buddhist or any hybrid one. This is an approach adopted by both Taoist and  Buddhist , although from Taoist perspective , advocating such a Mind is mainly ­due to its greatest  possibility of mobilizing  the  pre-heavenly qi .  Apart from it , there are other consideration :

 

1) If you are a mediocre guy , then likely you do not get the  insight and  buy such an idea of  a so-called great Mind , and you will  keep doing your paying-attention-to-the-dantian or visualizing-a-light-ball stuff , which is fine as it suits your aim of just living longer or curing a disease.

 

 

2) If you are a bad guy , then hardly do you get a patience of dealing with a boring 'mindless Mind'  for without  great aspiration you  likely drop it quickly and pursue other easier means for  attaining your goal .

 

 

3)If you are an evil guy, then hardly can you not be  swallowed by your own evil nature in the process of playing with this Mind.

 

So, whatever the case , using the Righteous Mind filters many groups of people and the purity  of Tao is maintained ,neither it vulgarized nor misused .

Edited March 6, 2017 by exorcist_1699