Jed Mckenna on bliss

[Wun Yuen Gong]

That was my whole arguement Mickealz with you over BLISS its not enlightenment funny how some people have to understand that themselves!

 

You can attain Bliss from having a wank if you want bliss, but any good chi kung or meditation practice will and should give you bliss just relax and let go with any of it and it will come Kunlun is not the only art that leads to bliss! Great marketing there website has, i wish i could make a website that gets peoples attention like theres. Hmm all i need is to include the words like "SECRET, ENLIGHTENMENT, LEVITATION, TELEPORTATION" should get some followers.

 

WYG

[Trunk]

...

Sweeeeeet.

[Sunya]

That was my whole arguement Mickealz with you over BLISS its not enlightenment funny how some people have to understand that themselves!

 

You can attain Bliss from having a wank if you want bliss, but any good chi kung or meditation practice will and should give you bliss just relax and let go with any of it and it will come Kunlun is not the only art that leads to bliss! Great marketing there website has, i wish i could make a website that gets peoples attention like theres. Hmm all i need is to include the words like "SECRET, ENLIGHTENMENT, LEVITATION, TELEPORTATION" should get some followers.

 

WYG

 

 

you forgot an ancient lineage that can't be verified and a master who could leave any minute just kiddin.

 

winpro, reaidng your posts, if one replaces 'bliss' with heroine you would be a drug addict. nah mean? that is the point i'm trying to make. you're turning into a feel good addict and that i don't think has anything to do with enlightenment or truth.

 

Kun Lun, and Red Phoenix brought about a change

Enlightenment was discovery true self.

Heroine i love very much. Heroine is alive.

seeking heroine constantly. the Divine is Heroine

Finding solice in her. Heroine is experience of divinity.

At some point inevitable a small room is found. It is Heaven just to get in there.

This room begs to be filled... with, what..? (heroine)

 

[Wun Yuen Gong]

You left out BANKER, ELECTRICIAN, PAINTERS, PANEL BEATERS these guys are all and are ONE!

 

CHI is CHI....LOL Now take my bliss!

 

Winpro,

 

Im really happy you have found your method Kunlun are you also doing red phoenix or other stuff from Max?

 

Have you learnt his Tibetan Thunder Breathing yet, that is something im interested in understanding, unless anyone else does it?

 

WYG

[thelerner]

"if one replaces 'bliss' with heroine you would be a drug addict. nah meat"

 

In Zen if you replace sitting w/ sitting infront of a TV, you would be a couch potato.

In Yoga, if you replace asana w/ yawning you'd be a sleepy head.

 

You replace lightning bug w/ lighting bolt you get fried. I think heroine addiction usually leads to a bad place. The person who regularly and deeply experiences the Kunlun bliss might be closer to the sweet spot, perhaps enlightenment, then you might think.

 

It'll be interesting to see. A reality test for any system is 'how well are you functioning in society? How are you doing w/ your job, friends and family?'. Thats important, at least to me. A blissed out person can be spacy and narcisstic, but Mckenna's route can be dark, Goth and solitary. Can be, but are they??

 

 

Michael

[gendao]

i see on the board a lot of talk of bliss and equating it to enlightenment, especially with Kunlun. in my gut, i felt this was wrong and completely agree with Jed. nothing wrong with bliss, but it isn't enlightenment.

story I once heard a famous shaman tell of journeying astrally and coming upon somebody sitting in bliss in a higher dimension. Although this person seated in the lotus position had found his way to a higher dimension, much in the way so-called Ascended Masters are typically described, he definitely had not made it back "home" to Source. In other words, although he failed to realize the fact, he was still in the holograph, still caught in the Matrix--to borrow a cinematic analogy. This blissed-out individual was so oblivious in his partial enlightenment the shaman was literally able to sneak up and touch him on the shoulder without his noticing anything!

 

Enlightenment is about raising consciousness and letting the light of the soul in to the point that we become it. True enlightenment follows a path of conscious personal mastery that results in transformation and, by definition, involves the creation of a stable lightbody. The lightbody or soul body is a "trinitized" (balanced and harmonious) physical vehicle that has resolved duality, karma and disease at the cellular and atomic levels.

Bliss is great, but you don't have to be enlightened to feel it. And, I don't think Max or anyone else is claiming they are one and the same, either...

 

In-light-in-ment

In-form-ation

Edited December 18, 2007 by vortex

[Djshorty]

Well I finished reading Mckennas book, couldn't put it down. I think its great that someone is taking the opposite approach to enlightenment, maybe its not the path for all, but its still the path for some. What really resonates with me is the fact that he says go out and do the work yourself, figure it all out on your own, find out what is true. In essence you don't need to sit in an ashram for 10 years, you don't need to do Kunlun everyday, don't need to dish out 400$ on a workshop for enlightenment, unless of course 'you' feel the need to do all that. While I was reading his book, I was reminded of the talks and books I've read by Alan Watts. They both are pointing in the same direction.

 

Now, I'm struggling with the question of Who Am I? When I listen to sounds, they come from nothingness, when 'I' hear thoughts, they too come from nothingness. Who the hell am I?! Where do these words come from? I'll stick with it and continue digging, like someone told me in another thread.

 

Peace

 

"if one replaces 'bliss' with heroine you would be a drug addict. nah meat"

 

In Zen if you replace sitting w/ sitting infront of a TV, you would be a couch potato.

In Yoga, if you replace asana w/ yawning you'd be a sleepy head.

 

You replace lightning bug w/ lighting bolt you get fried. I think heroine addiction usually leads to a bad place. The person who regularly and deeply experiences the Kunlun bliss might be closer to the sweet spot, perhaps enlightenment, then you might think.

 

It'll be interesting to see. A reality test for any system is 'how well are you functioning in society? How are you doing w/ your job, friends and family?'. Thats important, at least to me. A blissed out person can be spacy and narcisstic, but Mckenna's route can be dark, Goth and solitary. Can be, but are they??

Michael

[gendao]

While I was reading his book, I was reminded of the talks and books I've read by Alan Watts. They both are pointing in the same direction.

Watts never achieved enlightenment, though. What about Jed?

 

Talk is always easy, but results speak for themselves...

 

Not saying they might not have great points, just wondering if Jed talks his walk?

Edited December 18, 2007 by vortex

[Sunya]

Watts never achieved enlightenment, though. What about Jed?

 

Talk is always easy, but results speak for themselves...

 

Not saying they might not have great points, just wondering if Jed talks his walk?

 

 

ah, so you know that Alan Watts never achieved enlightenment, you must've met him. tell me what was he like? actually, there's really no way to tell if someone is enlightened by meeting them.. so you must've lived through him,, you must've been Alan Watts in a past life. wow, it's great to meet you Mr. Watts, too bad you didn't get the big E, better luck next time I guess.

 

thanks for the heads up vortex.

 

 

 

lerner, your analogies don't make sense. one sits in zazen and infront of the TV for different reasons. but one does heroine and one wants to attain bliss for the same reasons. THAT is the point.

[Djshorty]

Funny, I thought we're all alreeady enlightened. Maybe Watts never realized he was enlightened, I can't say, but I don't even know if Buddha realized enlightenment, or even Jesus. Who 'realizes' enlightenment though? Who the heck does the realizing? If I don't even know who I am, how can 'I' know whether or not I'm enlightened?!

ah, so you know that Alan Watts never achieved enlightenment, you must've met him. tell me what was he like? actually, there's really no way to tell if someone is enlightened by meeting them.. so you must've lived through him,, you must've been Alan Watts in a past life. wow, it's great to meet you Mr. Watts, too bad you didn't get the big E, better luck next time I guess.

 

thanks for the heads up vortex.

lerner, your analogies don't make sense. one sits in zazen and infront of the TV for different reasons. but one does heroine and one wants to attain bliss for the same reasons. THAT is the point.

[thelerner]

'lerner, your analogies don't make sense. one sits in zazen and infront of the TV for different reasons. but one does heroine and one wants to attain bliss for the same reasons. THAT is the point.'

 

Thats not a point, its an angle, here's mine. Zazen or couch potato, both are sitting on their butts, quietly. One is taking conscious responsibility for their growth, the other is abdicating it to the tube. I see a Kunlun parallel. The heroine user abdicating responsibility for an artificial quick fix that's can quickly become a deadly addiction.

 

Kunlun isn't easy. Its harder then regular emptiness sitting cause your hands are up. They get tired and a little achy, particularly at first when its hard to focus past it. Not that I've experienced it, but the cause of the bliss is your own action (I don't understand the inner mechanics of it). YOU are doing something to yourself that (may) be lighting up your circuits and thats creating happiness.

 

If you get too anti-bliss, do you start telling people to wipe that smile off your face?

 

I don't do much Healing Tao practice these days, but the best of it was the acknowledgement of the power of the smile. (a problem being, how do you really smile). If a smile is good, then bliss, at least the kind caused when you open your own circuits, is probably better.

 

 

Michael

[Wun Yuen Gong]

There are many different hand and arm positions or mudras in emptyness meditation, Kunlun holding a ball is found in almost every Tao and Buddhist chi kung, martial art also. The only thing different that i have seen is the heels off the ground and to be honest ive tried it and its not that high level compared to my cultivation methods which all have attained bliss, visions, seeing auras etc. I might call myself a bodhisattva?

 

I think for the people that never felt bliss before i can see why they look at max as there saviour and follow him!!!

[MatthewQi]

That was my whole arguement Mickealz with you over BLISS its not enlightenment funny how some people have to understand that themselves!

 

You can attain Bliss from having a wank if you want bliss, but any good chi kung or meditation practice will and should give you bliss just relax and let go with any of it and it will come Kunlun is not the only art that leads to bliss! Great marketing there website has, i wish i could make a website that gets peoples attention like theres. Hmm all i need is to include the words like "SECRET, ENLIGHTENMENT, LEVITATION, TELEPORTATION" should get some followers.

 

WYG

 

Hi guys,

 

WYG, that isn't the type of bliss I equate to what is refered to as enlightenment, satori, nirvana, cloud of unkowing (which is christian btw), Tao, etc. This Bliss (with a captial B x 100,000,000,000 exponetial) is at the essence every spiritual tradition, yet it is not it totally either. I personally like the Hindu description becuase well I feel it describes it the best that it can be described (for me). It is not the description, but the experience. And when you have it and when it is integrated into your being, there isn't any question about it. OK, the intellect may still have questions but eventually they subside

 

So here is the Hindu description:

 

"This Supreme Cosmic Spirit or Absolute Reality called Brahman (not to be confused with the creator God Brahmā) is said to be eternal, genderless, omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent, and ultimately indescribable in the human language. It can be at best described as infinite Being, infinite Consciousness and infinite Bliss. Brahman is regarded as the source and essence of the material universe."

 

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brahman

 

Go look up other traditions if you don't believe me. But perhaps it is not recognizable what is being talked about until it is experienced directly. No tradition has a monopoly on it either only a context.

 

Om,

 

Matt

[Guest winpro07]

Edited February 13, 2008 by winpro07

[gendao]

Red Phoenix manifested this, so to speak 'enlightenment of the mind'. I have only been into those places like tiny-little-rooms -where perfect clarity happens a few times in the past 25 years. The degree of effort, and amount of labor to develop will/reason to get in there i am no longer capable of. One of these experiences lasted three days: 13hrs of meditation first day, then 8hrs, and 5 hrs the last. The result after such an effort was manifestation of certain phenomenal ability that lasted only a short time. I am supporting Kun Lun, and all that Max has in the biggest ways i can. I really believe. There have been amazing changes in me since the first seminar -too many to attempt to explain. I'll offer just one: I was not able to practice for several days after-was very overwhelmed at the implication of what had occurred at the seminar. At the end of my first practice a pillar happened( it is difficult to give validity to these things ) Its like your body transforms into a pillar of light. I had no consciousness of body -only of light...... There was not a strong sensation of bliss at this point -it was more of joy, and solitude partly in finding my ability within this practice, and transformation that lends a sense of great freedom -in this thought there was bliss. My very first experiences of bliss lasted only a very short time, and was more a sense of emotional well being, and physical pleasure. After a week of daily practice, even with my mind raging over the finer points of 'how to practice' some magic occurred. This 'Magic' lasted several days, and occurred in several stages. The first stage happened about three hours after practice:'my mind' separated form 'my self', and was able to view with great clarity the inner workings of both, and their relationship. After the next practice 'I' found my 'self' in what can only be described here as a "room". Max has explained this "square inch" in some detail -The elation, and amazing peace found in here!!! Next 'I' was shown the source of mind, and how it rises. Next was shown the reason, and mechanics of the rising of mind, or fractions of self. The next day there was 'no mind' -just 'self' as an infinitesimally small so to speak 'point of persception'(of light) -The Soul. There were of course further understandings, and changes after this point. It took a few weeks of daily practice after these events for the 'Bliss state to happen, and it did Enlightenment? I have been enlightened a thousand times, but never permanently. This is permanent. BLISS in the body is the result of opening to the Divine. This practice nurtures this connection -IN A BIG BIG BIG WAAAAAAAY. Get it? Now i live drunk on her love. A fool? unaware? I assure you not! She yields all we need in perfect measure at all times. This 'Enlightenment' we argue about is just a drop in the pond -however indispensable -Bliss is the result

DaYAM! You ROCK!!!

 

Which workshop did you go to, and I wonder if I met you? Also, it sounds like you've done a lot of training prior to Kunlun. What type of stuff did you do?

Edited December 19, 2007 by vortex

[Wun Yuen Gong]

Winpro / Cameron

 

Seems like a good experience you are having, the mind is a very powerful tool and can make you believe in anything.

 

I was just about to ask the same qustion, what else have you practiced before this?

 

You didnt answer my Thunder Breathing question, i gues you havent learnt this as of yet if so what differences is there between Thunder Breathing and Kunlun?

 

WYG

[Cameron]

WYG.

 

I haven't learned the practices from Max you speak of.

 

Your really quite a rude guy and if I was Max I wouldn't teach you anything after the non stop insults you have sprayed over this site.

 

The amazing thing is Max has such a big heart he will probably teach you anyway.

 

That anyone on Earth would go to you for qigong instruction is beyond my wildest dreams.

 

Cameron

[Wun Yuen Gong]

LOL Thanks BUDDY!

 

Yeah, i guess i must be ok to run a school and teach kung fu, fight competition for the last 17yrs or so. Im not after learning MAX's arts im after this thing called "Chi" and feeling these speical abilities from people that claim it even if i have to die from the chi strike. Why not go on Randys 1 mil challenge get the 1 million open up a huge KUNLUN academy and go around world teaching this? If he can levitate, become light, die 3 times or whatever.

 

You cant see why i question all your kunlun post?

 

WYG

[Cameron]

I am not your buddy.

[Wun Yuen Gong]

LOL REALLY!!!

[Cameron]

Yes, really.

[Wun Yuen Gong]

You did say you was leaving and we will never see another post untill a year wasnt that what you said?

 

See now i told the admin here that i would leave it all alone but now you starting on me?!

[Ben Koontz]

Winpro / Cameron

 

Seems like a good experience you are having, the mind is a very powerful tool and can make you believe in anything.

 

I was just about to ask the same qustion, what else have you practiced before this?

 

You didnt answer my Thunder Breathing question, i gues you havent learnt this as of yet if so what differences is there between Thunder Breathing and Kunlun?

 

WYG

 

I get the feeling you are the type who really needs to know the intellectual side of everything, but thats ok, I know quite a few people like that. Some people will learn by feel, and thats enough for them, to feel that what they are doing is beneficial to them, and to continue it while requiring less of the intellectual part. Others need order and an intelligent reason why they are doing each thing. I am doing xyz to get xyz result which will happen after xyz time and they need the full process laid out for them, which isn't a bad thing at all, but could take longer. Having a teacher around who can answer any question is probably going to be very necessary for people like this. I mean, people are different and different people are drawn to different paths, it doesn't mean that one path is better or worse then another path, as long as they are getting to the same ending.

 

I don't mind some of your open criticism about Kunlun, because there needs to be balance, whenever someone does criticism it allows yourself to look deeper into your own art, and see what is going on. At times though, there is a difference between criticism and direct attacks on individuals or a practice which are pretty much uncalled for. I'm not going to tell how to act, but sometimes it is a good idea to put yourself in the person's shoes that you are attacking, and see what you said is contstructive criticism or if its a direct attack on the person.

 

Well I wish you the best with everything,

 

Ben

[Wun Yuen Gong]

Ben,

 

Thankyou for being very honest with your post i like honest people and there is nothing wrong with critisizing as you said. I posted earlier that i wouldnt post anything negitive again but my buddy came back.

Oh and for the record i did post that if i was on drugs i would Gong Sau Max THAT is just a joke i wouldnt ever do that to anyone no matter how bad i thought of them. Just for the record that is a joke wasnt a real challenge!

 

Anyway i do enjoy reading these Kunlun threads they do sound like a fairytale and i see why its spreading cause people are after that stuff. I hope to see these abilties oneday!

 

be well

WYG

[Cameron]

Ben,

 

Thankyou for being very honest with your post i like honest people and there is nothing wrong with critisizing as you said. I posted earlier that i wouldnt post anything negitive again but my buddy came back.

Oh and for the record i did post that if i was on drugs i would Gong Sau Max THAT is just a joke i wouldnt ever do that to anyone no matter how bad i thought of them. Just for the record that is a joke wasnt a real challenge!

 

Anyway i do enjoy reading these Kunlun threads they do sound like a fairytale and i see why its spreading cause people are after that stuff. I hope to see these abilties oneday!

 

be well

WYG

 

 

Wow. You were able to express yourself in a mature and honest way and express your disbelief in Max calling it a "fairy tale" in a relatively balanced manner that wasn't too riduclously over the top disrespectful.

 

I am checking out just wanted to give any of my friends here who are coming to Phoenix a heads up.

 

But I have to say..that is a noticable improvement in the quality of your expression in this post WYG...buddy