The Goal

[Marblehead]

Well, I'm still not so proud that I avoid walking in the mud.

[Stosh]

Mud is either there, or its not. One can make mud, but, then the pride would be in obscurity.

[allinone]

alchemy borns out of situations. If situation comes, training goes out of the roof. Can practice talking with girls, but if stunning female is front of you, then kek kek.

 

edit. stunning situation, stunning reaction. Practice something, is not real something. Accessing what is real is a skill on its own, if i practice it it is not real anymore..etc

 

edit2 there is also this if you know that its unreal, then its real, but if you know that too then its neither of the two first variants.

Edited April 25, 2017 by allinone

[Daeluin]

I like reading about stories of animals that achieve immortality.

 

Some good destiny they have, perhaps, but although rare, it happens.

 

Raise something up and it needs defending. Go ahead and defend it.

 

There will always be those able to find a natural way.

[opendao]

Dao is like a mountain. There is a summit - the goal, and it's uphill. So it's already raised, just one needs to see it. 

 

And if one takes course up, then "defense" is necessary. Because without it one rolls down, loosing the direction.

 

Natural way is the way down. Great Dao is in the opposite. 

Edited May 2, 2017 by opendao

[Marblehead]

Interesting perspective.  And it presents the question of:  Why set a goal that is counter to the Way of Dao?

[[email protected]]

The simplest way is to follow the flow, because no efforts needed. Going up requires our will, work and consistency.

[Taoist Texts]

   Why set a goal that is counter to the Way of Dao?

Bad karma. "Theirs not to reason why..."

[opendao]

Interesting perspective.  And it presents the question of:  Why set a goal that is counter to the Way of Dao?

 

main reason is misunderstanding of what the Way of Dao is.

[Starjumper]

Interesting perspective.  And it presents the question of:  Why set a goal that is counter to the Way of Dao?

 

 

Inverse proportion is also natural way of Tao

 

 

The graph continues past five, it is infinite.

Edited May 2, 2017 by Starjumper

[Marblehead]

I'm not very good with infinites.  Or imaginary numbers.  However, a 1:1 ratio looks pretty good to me.

[AussieTrees]

The apple pie,and if all goes well we get cream with our pie.

So we want to make an apple pie,mmm which apples?

 

Everyone knows when making an apple pie,to use the older tart varieties like granny smiths.

Yes you can use any apple you have,pink lady or golden delicious,and it will still be an apple pie and just as tasty.

 

If you want cream with your pie,you must first milk the cow.

 

PS: plastic apples are for show,a decoration,they are not for eating,even kids work that out.

[Stosh]

Doing-That which brings about the best apple pie - Is not running counter to the way of dao, because one would be working to some goal. .. If thats the suggestion. Any more than bees making honey is, unless they are trying to make honey from mud.

[Marblehead]

Well, I must confess, I have never seen Dao make apple pie but I have seen bees make honey.

 

Some things happen naturally, other things we need to help with a little bit.

[Stosh]

Well, I must confess, I have never seen Dao make apple pie but I have seen bees make honey.

 

Some things happen naturally, other things we need to help with a little bit.

Are you not an expression of dao? a component of the universe, and have said dao is a verb ? So I am at a loss to understand why you would imply that the nonhuman universe would make pies. To tell the fact, Ive never seen a bee make honey, I imagine they barf it up.

My point though is that while you can call your own shots as a human, unondominated by instinct, theres a limit to whats possible in this kitchen.

It seems sometimes like folks think they need to act like bees , fixed in either a rigid behavioral mode, or act without volition. That making such a confabulation as a pie , is counter to what dao ... wishes, but making pies is indeed possible and so its not running agaist the dao. Trying to do the impossible, or doing things that bring one farther away from their aims rather than toward the best situation for a human is cohnter to dao. Error brought on by illusion ,or wrongheadedness are examples.

Edited May 3, 2017 by Stosh

[Stosh]

If one takes the volition or determination of events out of the hands of gods, then one needs to find a new way to describe why water flows or wind blows. The daoists it seems instilled these characters in the materials and processes themselves. This opens a mental door to the alchemy , because one can the mix elements to get materials like gunpowder, and lays a foundation for real chemistry, physics animal behavior and so forth. Humans stand out as having very little instinct, but instead having knowlege and freedom to act . Because of this huge new capacity for flexible behavior, we have a big capacity to run against our own ultimate welfare. The training of daoists suggests where we tend to get things wrong, as in following impulse, and likes , as opposed to that which will enhance ourselfs and society the most.

[cold]

Are we not part of, or integral (part of the whole) dao?

And therefore our actions or inaction, our flexible behavior a part of dao?

When we make cherry* pie as well apple are they not an example of our flexible behavior and therefore part of dao?

 

I maintain yes!

We are natural, and our products are natural.

Not all natural things are healthy or desirable to all parts of the whole.

 

*My favorite pie is made with cherries, but apple is fine too.

[Stosh]

Basically agreed ,but lemon is way better than either of those substandard pie types;)

[Kar3n]

Mmm...

 

Lemon pie.

 

[Marblehead]

Are you not an expression of dao? a component of the universe, and have said dao is a verb ? So I am at a loss to understand why you would imply that the nonhuman universe would make pies. To tell the fact, Ive never seen a bee make honey, I imagine they barf it up.

My point though is that while you can call your own shots as a human, unondominated by instinct, theres a limit to whats possible in this kitchen.

It seems sometimes like folks think they need to act like bees , fixed in either a rigid behavioral mode, or act without volition. That making such a confabulation as a pie , is counter to what dao ... wishes, but making pies is indeed possible and so its not running agaist the dao. Trying to do the impossible, or doing things that bring one farther away from their aims rather than toward the best situation for a human is cohnter to dao. Error brought on by illusion ,or wrongheadedness are examples.

 

My first thought reading your post was to defend what I said.  But no, that's not needs be done.  We are talking about human goals vs the natural processes of the universe.  Only we make pies.  It has never been reported that an alligator made an apple pie.  Therefore when I said we have to help a little.  If our goal is to have apple pie either we go out and buy one or we make one.

 

I'm not suggesting that humans operate outside the realm of the universe.  Obviously we operate within the boundaries.

 

Thing is, we have goals, the universe does not as far as I can tell.

 

You should visit a honey farm.

[Marblehead]

How about cherry pie?

[cold]

I down for a peace!

[silent thunder]

I had two bites of a cherry tart last night around 10pm.

 

Its memory is still causing ripples of happy right now 12 and a half hours later...

 

even though I have no goal

and I currently have no pie

or tart

 

contentment remains.... hmm

curious

[[email protected]]

Obviously we operate within the boundaries.

The boundary is something that has some value for us. Or at least we think so. But often we forget that each of us is the main boundary, at least in its potential. There is only one thing left - to realize it.

Rgrds, Ilya

[cold]

I always wake up at 4th down and 40...