The Goal

[Marblehead]

The boundary is something that has some value for us. Or at least we think so. But often we forget that each of us is the main boundary, at least in its potential. There is only one thing left - to realize it.

Rgrds, Ilya

This could actually be a good discussion if someone wants to start a thread on it.

[Daeluin]

Dao is like a mountain. There is a summit - the goal, and it's uphill. So it's already raised, just one needs to see it. 

 

And if one takes course up, then "defense" is necessary. Because without it one rolls down, loosing the direction.

 

Natural way is the way down. Great Dao is in the opposite. 

 

Mountains become volcanoes - they are like pimples that shoot things out. I understand the reason for your metaphor, and it is a good one.

 

I like to think of it as merging polarities. The more one progresses, the more strength and will power is required, as in climbing a mountain. However too the more openness and relaxation to contain that strength without causing damage is required, much as in residing deep within a valley of receptivity. Sometimes all together, sometimes each in their own time.

 

I believe that the deeper we go, the more our psychology will influence our path as it becomes more subtle. If we are only able to summon the effort necessary to travel the path by thinking we are climbing a mountain, we also become more easily apt to fall off a cliff as the mountainous path becomes more treacherous.

 

If you search for it with intention, you become attached to phenomenal appearances; if you guard it without intention, you become attached to emptiness.

 

This why, while indeed I see there is a goal, I think a missing teaching is the importance of building harmony into one's foundation. This development of virtue is so important, because it is this that will bear the fruit that help to lift one up as one's path winds those precipices.

 

Blessings to your way.

[Starjumper]

Inverse proportion is also natural way of Tao

 

 

The graph continues past five, it is infinite.

 

 

I'm not very good with infinites.  Or imaginary numbers.  However, a 1:1 ratio looks pretty good to me.

 

The graph applies to energy cultivation, with, for example, "A" being number of Bozos, and "B" can represent how much chi power the Bozos cultivate.

 

OR, you could say it applies to emotional maturity with, once again, "A" being number of Bozos and "B" how much maturity the Bozos have.

 

AND, since spiritual growth and emotional maturity have a one to one ratio then it stands to reason that A would be number of Bozos and B would be their level of spiritual growth.

 

ALSO ...  A would stand for number of seekers and B for how lucky they are at finding a teacher of a powerful/fast system.

 

A could stand for number of practitioners and B would be how hard they work on their practice.

 

And so on and so forth.

 

Lao Tzu knew this too, and it's the mother of his famous quote: "Forget Bozos!!!"

Edited May 7, 2017 by Starjumper

[Marblehead]

That might have clarified everything for me.

 

But then, maybe not.

[silent thunder]

I'd get all hung up on how to correctly identify bozos... probably end up becoming one without even meaning to....

 

I just let it go... but that's really my goal of late.

 

release it all

 

that which remains is...

[Marblehead]

Just don't be giving up the attachments to your vacuum cleaner, okay?

[Starjumper]

I'd get all hung up on how to correctly identify bozos... probably end up becoming one without even meaning to....

 

 

We're all Bozos on this bus.  At around 4:40

 

Edited May 8, 2017 by Starjumper

[silent thunder]

Just don't be giving up the attachments to your vacuum cleaner, okay?

release is great with these things... things of that nature stay just where I drop em

whether i remember or not... now... why did I walk in this room?

[opendao]

Mountains become volcanoes - they are like pimples that shoot things out. I understand the reason for your metaphor, and it is a good one.

 

I like to think of it as merging polarities. The more one progresses, the more strength and will power is required, as in climbing a mountain. However too the more openness and relaxation to contain that strength without causing damage is required, much as in residing deep within a valley of receptivity. Sometimes all together, sometimes each in their own time.

 

I believe that the deeper we go, the more our psychology will influence our path as it becomes more subtle. If we are only able to summon the effort necessary to travel the path by thinking we are climbing a mountain, we also become more easily apt to fall off a cliff as the mountainous path becomes more treacherous.

 

If you search for it with intention, you become attached to phenomenal appearances; if you guard it without intention, you become attached to emptiness.

 

This why, while indeed I see there is a goal, I think a missing teaching is the importance of building harmony into one's foundation. This development of virtue is so important, because it is this that will bear the fruit that help to lift one up as one's path winds those precipices.

 

In that classic map mountains are not volcanoes (suddenly), and "attaching to emptiness" has no more sense than "attaching to appearances"... What you describe happen usually when practice is based on thoughts, mind, imagination, while goals are limited by those related to Xing cultivation only - in this case no harmony can be.

[Brian]

My first thought reading your post was to defend what I said. But no, that's not needs be done. We are talking about human goals vs the natural processes of the universe. Only we make pies. It has never been reported that an alligator made an apple pie. Therefore when I said we have to help a little. If our goal is to have apple pie either we go out and buy one or we make one.

 

I'm not suggesting that humans operate outside the realm of the universe. Obviously we operate within the boundaries.

 

Thing is, we have goals, the universe does not as far as I can tell.

 

You should visit a honey farm.

Saw a cow make a pie but I didn't try it.

[Marblehead]

Saw a cow make a pie but I didn't try it.

 

Got me again, didn't you?   

[Brian]

Got me again, didn't you?

Naah, just being silly.

[Daeluin]

In that classic map mountains are not volcanoes (suddenly), and "attaching to emptiness" has no more sense than "attaching to appearances"... What you describe happen usually when practice is based on thoughts, mind, imagination, while goals are limited by those related to Xing cultivation only - in this case no harmony can be.

 

The ancient ones were simple hearted

    and blended with the common people

They did not shine forth

They did not rule with cleverness

    So the nation was blessed

 

Now the rulers are filled with clever ideas

    and the lives of people are filled with hardship

    So the nation is cursed

 

He who knows the play of Tao and Te

    knows the nature of the universe

Tao brings forth Te from its own being

Te expands in all directions

    filling every corner of the world

    becoming the splendor of all creation

Yet at every moment Te seeks Tao

This is the movement that guides the universe

This is the impulse

    that leads all things back home

 

65, Jonathan Star

 

 

 

 

 

For me, turning back has its trials,

yet the impulse to turn back is itself natural.

I simply do my best to follow this impulse.

Where the ego fades to virtuosity,

I am surrounded by harmony and synchronicity.

[opendao]

On 5/10/2017 at 4:49 AM, Daeluin said:

 

For me, turning back has its trials,

yet the impulse to turn back is itself natural.

I simply do my best to follow this impulse.

Where the ego fades to virtuosity,

I am surrounded by harmony and synchronicity.

 

It's a very common understanding of a spiritual cultivation... However, there are Hun and Po souls. That's what people follow naturally with all their efforts... and mountains become volcanoes )) Is there any other way?

[Daeluin]

17 hours ago, opendao said:

 

It's a very common understanding of a spiritual cultivation... However, there are Hun and Po souls. That's what people follow naturally with all their efforts... and mountains become volcanoes )) Is there any other way?

 

Thank you, I think this is well said, and is very worthy of deeper exploration.

 

For me, there are times when what I follow is the separation of hun and po that leads away from spiritual integration. This is the following of desires and is a dynamic carried well by hexagram 54, seeking the real within the false.

 

And then there are other times when what I follow is that which leads toward humility, peace, and harmony. These moments do not arise from desire, but from natural glimpses into deeper balance.

 

They will arise when I

• am in a crowd waiting for something and I have nothing better to, and I reach to impulsively massage a sore muscle.
• have done physical labor or exercise with sincerity and whole-hearted-ness to the point where my ego is dissolved.
• have managed to eat not too much, not too little.
• when I walk through the woods, let go of my thoughts and come into resonance with the trees.
• have any occasion to explore humility.

And so on.

 

This is the principle of hexagram 17, following: a path of summoning and absorbing the true yang. This is the principle of using lead to control mercury.

 

This is also the principle of cleanliness. When we only follow desire, the hun listens with the senses and engages in external activities, which create dirt the po absorbs, growing heavier. The hun continues to be stimulated by the senses and the po continues to do it's best to hold onto things. They separate, each growing more distant and less interested in or able to participate with the other.

 

In our every day lives, this is like eating food on plates, which become dirty. Then we leave and come back. Then we shed our dirty clothes and go to sleep, and repeat. If we take no time to clean these things, it is not long at all before our home is quite a mess and we don't want to be there. The hun dislikes dealing with responsibility, dislikes the unclean, wants to fly away to the next thing.

 

However, I assume that we all have some relationship with the importance of cleanliness. We know what it feels like to feel good after taking a shower or bath. We know the difference in feeling between wearing clean clothes and dirty clothes. We know the difference in feeling between spending time in a messy, dirty bedroom with dirty sheets, clothes scattered all over the floor with dirty dishes, etc, and a clean room with clean sheets on the bed and nothing on the floor.

 

It is when we make things dirty that we cause an increase in separation between hun and po. It is when we make things cleaner that we cause an increase in the integration between hun and po. This increase in integration is like a summoning. When everything is clean and in its place, and we have shed what we do not need, we are creating and openness to things that like cleanliness.

 

Earlier in my life, I started noticing a pattern, where before I would do my homework, I would want to clean myself and clean my bedroom first. Then I started noticing that lots of other people had the same pattern. Now I recognize that, when we finally turn back toward responsibility, we have a barrier to doing it until we first clean our space and take care of other responsibilities we've been neglecting - take care of things that push us away from doing integration work in our space. It is difficult to focus on sitting still and doing homework when the hun is being pushed away by our body odor and the disarray of our space. When we keep moving forward from distraction to distraction, it is easy to ignore what we leave in our wake. When we finally turn back, what needs to be done is clear. It is the same with spiritual integration work - before the true work can begin, time needs to be spent "cleaning and preparing the internal space."

 

Perhaps it should be said, that some will cultivate spiritual "bliss", but rather than facing the shadows within and cleaning them up, they will simply dump their bliss by the wayside and continue the forward momentum. This may lead to experience in cultivating some types of spirituality, but it also neglects integration.

 

These are basic principles that many people understand. They are not "neidan," yet they do follow the same principles, if only on more surface layers. And yet there is the well known saying cleanliness is next to godliness. The principle of cleanliness can indeed take one spiritually far, and yet we must not forget that an OCD person who is always searching for excuses to clean things is also not allowing the principle of openness to operate.

 

Just like most people have a balanced understanding of how to launder their clothing at the appropriate times, such that they are not always focusing their efforts at cleaning, but also not running out of clean clothes to wear, this principle of balance can be applied spiritually as well. There is time for the inner cleansing work, and there is the time to reap the benefits of the inner cleansing work. This can be in the direction of creation/separation, as many currently operate, but this can also be in the direction of internal cultivation - whereby after we work on cleansing, we maintain inwardly focused, let our mind rest and allow deeper spiritual integration to arise.

 

No, this is not neidan. This is merely stating that yes we do understand how to grasp the principle of doing integration work in our modern daily lives, that yes we do understand the importance of it and many of us feel good when we do it. By connecting this principle into the common person's budding awakening to things of a spiritual nature, we can begin to nudge the human collective more toward working on the operation of spiritual integration. This is the operation of hexagram 53, gradual progress: restoring the precelestial while in the postcelestial. If we sincerely practice the operation of gradual progress, and embrace this as an integral facet of modern society, I believe some may indeed naturally be drawn to touch upon the operations of neidan.

 

The operation of gradual progress hinges upon the middle two lines, where one first is able to resist the brigands (the urge to use up one's energy/resources), and second one is able to settle, even in an inappropriate place (the willingness to return inwardly and cultivate emptiness, even though one may not have the ideal conditions for doing so).

 

What is more important, our reputation or our shen?

What is more valuable, body or wealth?

Which is most worrying, gain or loss?

 

Excess frugality leads to squandering waste.

Hoarding leads to paranoia and theft.

 

To be content with what you have and what you are

Guards against confusion.

To cease with sufficiency avoids exhaustion.

Those who practice "contentment and sufficiency" long endure.

 

dao de jing 44, tl Liu Ming