Obama's attempts at undermining American democracy

[blackstar212]

Ummm...

 

Obama literally sent a representative to Moscow prior to becoming President.

 

<shrug>

Well you know my opinion on Obama. If it was illegal then he should be punished for his actions. He should not be above the law.

[dawei]

Well you know my opinion on Obama. If it was illegal then he should be punished for his actions. He should not be above the law.

 

But you called such actions of talking to Russia as 'dirty' and 'crooked'... the point is, it is actually commonplace.  Senators and the speaker backed Flynn's ability to talk to Russia.    The call nor a meeting is out of line.

[blackstar212]

But you called such actions of talking to Russia as 'dirty' and 'crooked'... the point is, it is actually commonplace.  Senators and the speaker backed Flynn's ability to talk to Russia.    The call nor a meeting is out of line.

Understandable.

 

However we have a little different situation with Team Trump, He actually called on Russia to hack Hillary. There could be a nefarious situation brewing and we will get to the bottom of this. The intelligence community has evidence Russia has messed with our election and a full scale investigation (much to the chagrin of Trump supporters and the Republicans) will be enacted.

 

We will see if Trump is dirty time will tell.

[dawei]

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/comey-asks-justice-dept-to-reject-trump%e2%80%99s-wiretapping-claim/ar-AAnOQko

 

WASHINGTON — The F.B.I. director, James B. Comey, asked the Justice Department this weekend to publicly reject President Trump’s assertion that President Barack Obama ordered the tapping of Mr. Trump’s phones, senior American officials said on Sunday. Mr. Comey has argued that the highly charged claim is false and must be corrected, they said, but the department has not released any such statement.

 

 

Oh now Comey must be in on this conspiracy to get President Trump ROFLMAO

 

senior American officials said

 

I'm beginning to wonder why folks are only talking anonymously when this is so simple:  Comey can come out and make a statement from the FBI.  And publicly call on the DOJ to join with a statement...

 

In fact, that would be better for Comey to say it as it was the NYTimes that reported they got a FISA order.

 

There is no response from DOJ to date... and I'm not surprised.    

 

Spicer said he was approached by the FBI to say a news report was false and he could quote them on it... and Spicer did the common sense thing to ask them to just make the statement...  and then we're told by Spicer the FBI didn't want to get involved... although they supposedly raised it. 

 

But now the FBI wants the DOJ to make a statement ?

 

Some of these stories just don't add up...  my common sense radar is flipping like crazy. 

 

It all sounds like a shell game as no one wants to talk from an official capacity but are willing to run their mouth as an anonymous source... 

[dawei]

Understandable.

 

However we have a little different situation with Team Trump, He actually called on Russia to hack Hillary. There could be a nefarious situation brewing and we will get to the bottom of this. The intelligence community has evidence Russia has messed with our election and a full scale investigation (much to the chagrin of Trump supporters and the Republicans) will be enacted.

 

We will see if Trump is dirty time will tell.

 

That's why you don't understand Trump... he was not calling on Russia to do it... it was a pulpit moment he relishes.  He does that kind of thing over and over.  It is meant more as a joke.  

 

Not to their chagrin... they just requested a full scale investigation by probing both sides of it. 

 

And the investigation has been going on since like July or at least Oct due to the Trump servers in question... and again, several people (not anonymous) within the WH or committees said 'no ties were found'. 

 

I'm not sure they are really be any clearer than some of the current issues as they may mean no ties between the server issue they were concerned about. 

 

If this were Japan or an ally, it would all be moot... so there is a Russia bias to some degree as we love to make them out as the bad guys.    Like we're afraid to actually get along with Russia...

[dawei]

But you called such actions of talking to Russia as 'dirty' and 'crooked'... the point is, it is actually commonplace.  Senators and the speaker backed Flynn's ability to talk to Russia.    The call nor a meeting is out of line.

 

For the record... I'm actually glad Flynn is out and McMaster is in...   Flynn brought this on himself and there is no excuse for lying.

 

What this does raise is a curious issue... 

 

IMO, he must of believed that there was no way in the world that anyone could know about this call.  

 

The fact is, the call was intercepted by intelligence and the rest is history...

[blackstar212]

For the record... I'm actually glad Flynn is out and McMaster is in...   Flynn brought this on himself and there is no excuse for lying.

 

What this does raise is a curious issue... 

 

IMO, he must of believed that there was no way in the world that anyone could know about this call.  

 

The fact is, the call was intercepted by intelligence and the rest is history...

I agree. I think McMaster is a great selection for the position. At least from what I have read about him.

[Brian]

BTW, the Senate requested a confidential briefing last year on the purported evidence of Russian "hacking" or involvement in the election process and the Obama Administration refused. Similarly, the FBI requested access to the DNC servers they claimed the Russians had hacked and the DNC refused.

 

Curious behavior.

[blackstar212]

BTW, the Senate requested a confidential briefing last year on the purported evidence of Russian "hacking" or involvement in the election process and the Obama Administration refused. Similarly, the FBI requested access to the DNC servers they claimed the Russians had hacked and the DNC refused.

 

Curious behavior.

Yeah now this.

 

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/russian-hackers-said-to-seek-hush-money-from-liberal-us-groups/ar-AAnSbAZ

[dawei]

Curious behavior.

 

Here's a curious thought... play out the situation that Flynn actually tells Pence the truth... and then Pence needs to spin it in interviews... and if he is not really forthright, then who does the FBI call in to have a sit-down with ?

 

In a very strange way, the WH dodged a major bullet that might of been aimed at the VP.

 

Ergo, the WH should thank Flynn for keeping to some secretive way he preferred to behave like, and let him 'out' himself.

[Brian]

Yeah now this.

 

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/russian-hackers-said-to-seek-hush-money-from-liberal-us-groups/ar-AAnSbAZ

Guess that makes you happy? I mean, if justice is being done and all...

 

Personally, I hope the FBI conducts a thorough investigation and that the DoJ applies & follows rule of law.

 

Oh, and evidence of funding the protesters? Color me surprised.

 

What's that saying about a tangled web?

[blackstar212]

Guess that makes you happy? I mean, if justice is being done and all...

 

Personally, I hope the FBI conducts a thorough investigation and that the DoJ applies & follows rule of law.

 

Oh, and evidence of funding the protesters? Color me surprised.

 

What's that saying about a tangled web?

I am not surprised by any of it that is why I posted it. Russian hacking is real the big question is what conservative is pulling the trigger on this? It seems the Russians are targeting the dems only hmmmm

[Brian]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2017/03/05/trumps-evidence-for-obama-wiretap-claims-relies-on-sketchy-anonymously-sourced-reports/?utm_term=.47d2e91201e8

 

 

The Pinocchio Test

 

While the Trump White House cited five news reports to justify its request for a congressional investigation, only two actually are relevant.

 

It’s certainly ironic that the Trump White House — which has heavily criticized articles relying on anonymous sources — now relies on articles based on anonymous sources that cite information that has not been confirmed by any U.S. news organization. It would be amusing if it were not so sad.

 

After all, Clapper, who presumably would be aware of a FISA court order, has issued an on-the-record denial.

 

Even if these media reports are accepted as accurate, neither back up Trump’s claims that Obama ordered the tapping of his phone calls. Moreover, they also do not back up the administration’s revised claim of politically motivated investigations.

 

We’re still waiting for the evidence. In the meantime, Trump earns Four Pinocchios.

BTW, Clapper's statement means one of two things -- either he is lying (a distinct possibility since he's already admitted to lying to Congress) or the Progressives and the sycophantic media have been lying about the nature of the alleged "Russian scandal" all along. Remember that the claimed severity of the situation given a complete lack of evidence of wrong-doing has been based on the reported FISA warrant which in turn was supposedly proof of probable cause (FISA surveillance isn't law-enforcement but we'll ignore that for the moment...)

 

Further, if Clapper is telling the truth now then perhaps it is reasonable to assume he was also telling the truth when he stated that there was no evidence of a connection between Trump and the Russians or between the Russians and the election.

 

Still leaves unanswered the source and authorization for the "continuing counterintelligence investigation" from which numerous (felonious) leaks have emerged though...

 

As I've said, this stinks to high heaven and Team Obama has found itself between a rock and a hard place.

[dawei]

I am not surprised by any of it that is why I posted it. Russian hacking is real the big question is what conservative is pulling the trigger on this? It seems the Russians are targeting the dems only hmmmm

 

Fair point...   but I tend to think regardless of the republican who won the top spot, the Russians held a grudge against Hillary and likely wanted to harm her reputation. 

 

Hillary Confesses To Causing Putin To Hack The U.S. Presidential Election

 

Why Putin Hates Hillary

 

When was the first Russian hacking ?    June 14, 2016... prior to Trump's formally announcement to run.

 

So, what we can say for sure is: Putin was anti-Hillary...

[dawei]

BTW, Clapper's statement means one of two things -- either he is lying (a distinct possibility since he's already admitted to lying to Congress) or the Progressives and the sycophantic media have been lying about the nature of the alleged "Russian scandal" all along. Remember that the claimed severity of the situation given a complete lack of evidence of wrong-doing has been based on the reported FISA warrant which in turn was supposedly proof of probable cause (FISA surveillance isn't law-enforcement but we'll ignore that for the moment...)

 

Clapper lied under oath... and later apologized.   that is a felony with up to five years...   NO ACTION.

 

BTW: Snowden, the awful traitor revealed it.

 

There is a remote option that he simply was not in the loop on this but I can't see this as realistic.

 

Either there was a warrant (which requires criminal intent) or FISA which requires probably cause in relation to a foreign entity. 

 

I think I've seen there is some wide-ranging leeway to intercept any foreign communication and this would explain some things but would be most troubling as it could of been used in a focused way against the other political party.

 

In the end, the thing that bothers me the most is, the initial claims there is something between the Trump team and Russia and all media ran with that and has resulted in many comments that 'nothing was found'...  but Trump's tweet is now meet with cries of 'unsupported', 'unsubstantiated', etc. 

 

It's a whole different universe the press panders between.

[Brian]

Fair point... but I tend to think regardless of the republican who won the top spot, the Russians held a grudge against Hillary and likely wanted to harm her reputation.

 

Hillary Confesses To Causing Putin To Hack The U.S. Presidential Election

 

Why Putin Hates Hillary

 

When was the first Russian hacking ? June 14, 2016... prior to Trump's formally announcement to run.

 

So, what we can say for sure is: Putin was anti-Hillary...

She also extorted over $40M out of the Russians while she was SoS in that Uranium One deal.

[dawei]

She also extorted over $40M out of the Russians while she was SoS in that Uranium One deal.

 

Yes... that seems almost surreal... but now past stuff... a grand pass given without investigation or oversight.   I've almost forgotten it as I don't like to look to the past too much except for context of 'what makes sense', 'what is in context of past admins', and 'lets keep common sense on this'.

 

We could explore a topic on HC but I'd rather not for a few reasons...  she had her day, a few times.   She should be remembered for a lifetime contribution to government.  I truly believe Trump likes the Clintons and predicted he would not take any action on her.

 

Until she creates a personal presence again in politics, I'm giving her a personal pass...

[dawei]

So, what we can say for sure is: Putin was anti-Hillary...

 

Interesting.... just saw an interview with Clapper about when he briefed Trump on the 'dossier' of Russian ties.

 

In the interview, Clapper said the only think they could substantiate in the entire dossier was Putin's strong dislike of Hillary... 

[blackstar212]

Interesting.... just saw an interview with Clapper about when he briefed Trump on the 'dossier' of Russian ties.

 

In the interview, Clapper said the only think they could substantiate in the entire dossier was Putin's strong dislike of Hillary...

Which is why they hacked the election to favor a political idiot.

[MooNiNite]

Trump claims he was wire-tapped... and all the major news sites suddenly want sources ... it doesn't get any better now

 

Wire taps happen on every american all the time. We constantly data mined. Plenty of engineers are talking about it on the radio. There is no doubt that Trump's calls were recorded. Same with our calls and online interactions. 

[MooNiNite]

The idea is that if you have nothing to hide then you are ok.

 

 

 

 

This guy wants to deny the progression of the investigation.. 

 

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/politics/ct-trump-wiretaps-20170305-story.html

 

which is no surprise.

Edited March 7, 2017 by MooNiNite

[MooNiNite]

http://libertynews.com/2017/03/mr-president-your-predecessor-actually-wire-tapped-all-of-our-phones-what-are-you-going-to-do-about-it/

 

pretty sure government agencies own facebook too. 

 

That's pretty much what Obama's presidency was, the continuation of the degradation of US citizen's rights. 

 

People waive american flags at trump rallies for a reason.. 

 

But as populations grow in size, people need to be organized more efficiently, so it is in a way natural that we are losing rights.

 

Trump's claims are true, but they are much less meaningful than they were in the Watergate era. 

Edited March 7, 2017 by MooNiNite

[Brian]

Which is why they hacked the election to favor a political idiot.

Oh, please, Mr. Completely Open-Minded -- share with us one shred of evidence to back up any aspect of this scurrilous statement, other than Trump is literally Big Brother and anyone who values individual liberty is a murderous sociopath.

 

Please, share your wisdom. I'll wait...

[dawei]

Which is why they hacked the election to favor a political idiot.

 

please...

 

1. They hacked the DNC before Trump formally announced running

2. They would favor anyone over Hillary

[Aetherous]

https://newsnuke.com/2017/03/14/wiretapped-president-obama-donald-trump/

 

Sneaky.