Mair 6:1

[Brian]

Cutting both ways means dualist thinking, yes?

 

I find the issue is with non-value as if that is dual to value... in dualistic thinking.

 

How to characterize non-value to mean non-dual aspect of value ?

Yes, you understood me, I think. In the dual & relativistic context, everything matters and we make subjective judgement calls on relative values based on our histories and situations. In the absolute and non-dualistic context, though, distinctions disappear and there's nothing to judge.

 

"Nothing is real and nothing to get hung about"

[Marblehead]

Well, I told you, everything matters but nothing really matters.

[Stosh]

Cutting both ways means dualist thinking, yes?   

 

I find the issue is with non-value as if that is dual to value...  in dualistic thinking.

 

How to characterize non-value to mean non-dual aspect of value ?

 

That wasnt what I was angling at , The swing that says the tiniest mosquito has to be valued to me, reversed, says that my own mother should mean nothing to me. This is why one cherry-picks, and the example of Arjuna , I used elsewhere isnt appealing. Yes logically, the puzzle of what one could could value , can be made a blanket directive , and is thus resolved ..as an abstract outline, and explains how the perspective of Krishna would not necessarily be that of a sociopath.

Yes ,everything is linked into a non dualist Whole. But as Brian is saying , all people do have to consider things on a discretionary basis or shut themselves up in a cave.

[Starjumper]

Relative, personal ad hoc value judgements, rationalized after the fact?

 

Just trying to understand the belief system you are espousing here.

 

 

A martial artist is supposed to be judge, jury, and executioner all rolled up into one, and Taoism is a warrior's tradition.  People are straw dogs, straw dogs are made to be burnt.

[Stosh]

Warriors wanting to get in touch with their feminine side? 

[Stosh]

If being all sweet and passive came naturally, we wouldnt need to to so hard trying to make sense of these bewidering instructions , youre supposed to feel your way through.  Thats why Christianity is a warrior religion,it has ten clear rules,  judged by your father ,you go to heaven or hell .., end of story. 

[dawei]

That wasnt what I was angling at , The swing that says the tiniest mosquito has to be valued to me, reversed, says that my own mother should mean nothing to me. This is why one cherry-picks, and the example of Arjuna , I used elsewhere isnt appealing. Yes logically, the puzzle of what one could could value , can be made a blanket directive , and is thus resolved ..as an abstract outline, and explains how the perspective of Krishna would not necessarily be that of a sociopath.

Yes ,everything is linked into a non dualist Whole. But as Brian is saying , all people do have to consider things on a discretionary basis or shut themselves up in a cave.

 

The mosquito vs mother thing seems an attempt to place value arbitrarily in the end, or maybe it is placing value in such a way to diminish another's value.

 

I would of said, reversed, the mosquito is as valued as my mother.  They are not competing for value stamping from me (in a sense they might be on a emotional level) but that means value is what we want it to mean... maybe the 'ism' mentioned.

[Stosh]

The mosquito vs mother thing seems an attempt to place value arbitrarily in the end, or maybe it is placing value in such a way to diminish another's value.

 

I would of said, reversed, the mosquito is as valued as my mother.  They are not competing for value stamping from me (in a sense they might be on a emotional level) but that means value is what we want it to mean... maybe the 'ism' mentioned.

I'm a bit unclear but I think its valid to focus on what someone means by a thing having , meaning or value , or importance. 

So in my definition, while the mosquito is integral to the whole of the world, I am willing to smash it, which I would not be willing to do to my mom.

What you think of the mosquito's importance relative to your mom, I don't know , nor do I know what value stamping is.

The universe or abstract represented by Krishna , may not see the mosquito as being of secondary importance, nor does it bestow any importance on it preferentially at all. 

A god-like perspective of equal importance attributed to everything renders any action by the god as being interference, and not of universal good. Like if you went to a salad bar , you have to pick something for some reason or you are immobile. 

man has this bias,  this preference , and so Can be an active actor on the universal stage.

That's why Krishna is the chariot driver with power to steer the horses , yet Arjuna is in command of the chariot. Krishna being omnipresent , must therefore also be the chariot driver of all those arrayed against Arjuna as well , and despite his power , he is self neutralized.

The parable describes man as having free will while the gods do not. And while you might search for spiritual greatness in the neutrality of meditation or cave,, as soon as you move back into the real world, all that goes out the window. 

[dawei]

I'm a bit unclear but I think its valid to focus on what someone means by a thing having , meaning or value , or importance. 

So in my definition, while the mosquito is integral to the whole of the world, I am willing to smash it, which I would not be willing to do to my mom.

What you think of the mosquito's importance relative to your mom, I don't know , nor do I know what value stamping is.

The universe or abstract represented by Krishna , may not see the mosquito as being of secondary importance, nor does it bestow any importance on it preferentially at all. 

A god-like perspective of equal importance attributed to everything renders any action by the god as being interference, and not of universal good. Like if you went to a salad bar , you have to pick something for some reason or you are immobile. 

man has this bias,  this preference , and so Can be an active actor on the universal stage.

That's why Krishna is the chariot driver with power to steer the horses , yet Arjuna is in command of the chariot. Krishna being omnipresent , must therefore also be the chariot driver of all those arrayed against Arjuna as well , and despite his power , he is self neutralized.

The parable describes man as having free will while the gods do not. And while you might search for spiritual greatness in the neutrality of meditation or cave,, as soon as you move back into the real world, all that goes out the window. 

 

Ok, quickly, a great point.  I visited a friend this last weekend, while we were outside we were both eyeing a creature crawling around on the ground... he eyed it for some time and then just stepped on it and killed it.  I was eyeing it's ability to exist and then saw its destruction in the same moment.   We don't generally compare our family in such a way.

 

And that may be part of the point

 

Maybe our categorizations are not so separate. 

[Marblehead]

Ok, quickly, a great point.  I visited a friend this last weekend, while we were outside we were both eyeing a creature crawling around on the ground... he eyed it for some time and then just stepped on it and killed it.  I was eyeing it's ability to exist and then saw its destruction in the same moment.  

 

 

That's why I hope no Bigfoot is ever found.  It will immediately be killed by man.

[dawei]

That's why I hope no Bigfoot is ever found.  It will immediately be killed by man.

 

or Kill man