Is America trending towards Fascism?

[ralis]

From my point of view you are just not looking at the big picture of politics and politicians as a whole. I have no control over what you choose to turn a blind eye to.

 

Both sides of the aisle display and have displayed all of the behaviors you list, and are not specific to the right.

 

 

Historical analysis of the traits of fascism are well documented and the real test is to how such traits are expressed on a national level and in this case, Trump. "Turning a blind eye"? Interesting choice of accusations which assumes that my analysis is one of a biased observer with very little intellectual curiosity. Your characterization of me on this point is way off.

[Brian]

There is within the Left a movement which seeks to define "Left" as equating to "all things good" and "right" as "all things bad." We have a poster child within our forum membership. Adherents to this ideology, which includes a fair number of publishing academics, therefore ignore and deny all the historical evidence of leftist fascism and leftist alignment with authoritarians/totalitarians/tyrants/dictators who clearly fit the "fascist" label and literally define fascism as a right-wing phenomenon. This is clearly propaganda and historical revisionism (or, as the oligarchical collectivists would call it, rectification). If instead of starting from a definition which presupposes fascism is a result of one particular political philosophy we examine specific historical examples of societal developments which fit the "fascist" fingerprint, the picture takes on a much more complex form which clearly doesn't adhere to the now-popular academic definition.

[Taomeow]

Mao Zedong's cultural revolution comes to mind... 

[Brian]

There is an historic pattern of American Progressives embracing leftist (collectivist, big-government, rule of man, etc.) foreign leaders and then either labeling them as "right-wing" once atrocities are revealed or postulating that the atrocities are/were disconnected from the political philosophies which led to them. I suppose the same thing happens in the other direction, too, but I can't think of any examples. (Modern Progressives like to point to Hitler or Mussolini as "right-wing dictators" but both of them were embraced by the American Progressives as shining examples of left-wing success prior to things turning ugly.)

[Taomeow]

 once atrocities are revealed (...) postulating that the atrocities are/were disconnected from the political philosophies which led to them.

 

 

I heard this argument so many times -- first regarding socialism in the Soviet Union, and then regarding capitalism in the US. To the effect that, the idea is great, the best of them all, the only sensible one...  it's just that the execution is all wrong.  Let's fix it and all will be well.

 

Well...

 

There's nothing about any grouping of people beyond 120-150 individuals with a leader or leaders who know each one of them personally and are known to each one of them personally that is, prehistorically speaking, human at all. 

 

That's why we the "civilized" are stuck with predatory systems no matter what we call them and how we tweak with them politically, economically or technologically.

[zerostao]

I go by historians and excellent scholarship. Not personal opinion.

i am happy to provide scholarly peer reviewed sources. it took less than 3 minutes to find these:

 

"More recent liberal academic theories of fascism have defined it as: authoritarian nationalism; reactionary mass movement; revolutionary ultra-nationalism; synthesis of right-wing and left-wing characteristics; mobilizing myth of national rebirth."

https://daily.jstor.org/do-you-know-fascism-when-you-see-it/

 

also please read (esp. p 25):

Griffin, Roger. “The Primacy of Culture: The Current Growth (Or Manufacture) of Consensus within Fascist Studies.” Journal of Contemporary History, vol. 37, no. 1, 2002, pp. 21–43., www.jstor.org/stable/3180744.

https://www.jstor.org/stable/3180744?mag=do-you-know-fascism-when-you-see-it&seq=5#page_scan_tab_contents

Edited March 12, 2017 by zerostao

[Spotless]

Actually Fascism has always been linked to corporate power and nationalism. I would say the current trend in America started with Bush and was carried on through the Obama administration. This isn't just a Republican agenda, but a Democrat one as well. The goal is to remove freedoms from American's and increase the power of the wealthy, plain and simple. Anyone not on board isn't patriotic, plain and simple. the wrinkle in this plan is that they didn't expect as many people as there are, to be opposed to their singling out Muslims and Hispanics. Gosh darn morality taught to us before it fell out of vogue.

 

In my opinion in the next few months we'll see a major terrorist attack that will be the cause of massive loss of life and that will be the reasoning for removing our civil rights. It most likely wont happen here, but the idea that it could happen here is all that matters. The current administration will blow it out of proportions so they can use it for their agenda. I hope I'm wrong, but I don't think I will be.

 

"If you have nothing to hide, what do you have to be afraid of?"

You might look at the roots with J. Edgar, Nixon, then an improved face from Reagan, the GoPac tapes started by Gingrich and the framing of Carl Rove and its subsequent adoption as the "Fox(New)!?" front.

Not to mention the timely and ever fearful fear mongering end of the world lunacy that come with "the pending glorious end times" of a 1000 year designation and the disgusting arm and arms partnership they have with everything guns and molestation.

Edited March 12, 2017 by Spotless

[Astral Monk]

Wheres Karl? Ppl have been saying this for a while now. I myself was fearing it in the 90s.

 

The Ominous Parallels

 

8)

Edited March 13, 2017 by Astral Monk

[Astral Monk]

 

Personally, imo the fascism thing is a red-herring. I mean look, its the reeeeeeeee of SJWs right beside 'natzee'. Sure there's something to be wary of, but its just another mode distracting us from what is really going on-- complete and utter destabilization of western culture, with the destabilization of America being the prime cherry.

 

Theyve been trying for sometime to spark a race war, but the masses havent been biting. Now going forward? Who knows? If that doesnt work, the liberals against libertarians and freemen--corporate guns against citizen guns.

 

Anybody see the movie version of 'V for Vendetta'? The vision they had there for America is the outcome they want--not a stronger, greater America, but a weaker, more divided, continually beseiged America. Thats why most of the predictions of the rise of antichrist figures have him coming out of Europe, not as the fascist leader of a strong independent republic of liberty. Basic American values are abhorrent to those trying to control humanity. The only benefit was that theyve been able to manipulate and use Americans to further their own ends with impunity.

 

Fascism is more likely to rise in England or France. PC out of control.

 

 

 

8)

[futuredaze]

The word "Fascist" is incredibly mis-used.

 

Good video explaining what Fascism actually is:

 

 

The U.S. government has gradually been expanding power and reducing liberties for decades now.  Maybe it will get worse under Trump, but I don't think so.  I think as a businessman he has a more skeptical approach to big government than a politician.  That is why some people like him.

 

Instead of just calling America "fascist" -- we should actually expression specific concerns and evernts.  Just throwing around political buzzwords to demonize people is not productive, it is not a real argument.

[thelerner]

As a business man he got  millions if not tens of millions from the government.  For most of his life he's been more liberal then conservative, though it does depend on the audience he's speaking to.  More then most politicians his trade mark is to demonize people and spread wild rumors.  Not just the other party, but against his own.  From childish name calling, to Insulting there wives and even insinuating there fathers were involved in assassinating Kennedy, Trump sets a new low.   

 

There is a paranoia to him and it will probably get worse as the years go by.  Everyone around him signs very strict, high penalty non-disclosure contracts.  He's cut off his wife's divorce payments when she breathed to a magazine things he didn't like.  He relishes power over others, particularly the ability to fire them.  It's his power move and makes him feel stronger, as does adulation from nearly any source.  We can expect he will continue to fire his top staff as he did those who ran his campaign.  He is a creature of the media (even pretending to be his own made up press secretary!) and lives for applause.   cough cough Mussolini..

 

 

On the other hand every new regime and there cabinet gets called fascist by the opposing party.  It's part of the political game.  But Trump is a different animal.  I'll give you that. 

 

Freedom and fascism runs on a pendulum.   Right now there are alot of cross currents fighting, particularly on the extremes.  Trump has stated he will be the law and order president.  It will interesting to see how he handles the next Ferguson and how it runs.

[Brian]

As a business man he got  millions if not tens of millions from the government.  For most of his life he's been more liberal then conservative, though it does depend on the audience he's speaking to.  More then most politicians his trade mark is to demonize people and spread wild rumors.  Not just the other party, but against his own.  From childish name calling, to Insulting there wives and even insinuating there fathers were involved in assassinating Kennedy, Trump sets a new low.   

 

There is a paranoia to him and it will probably get worse as the years go by.  Everyone around him signs very strict, high penalty non-disclosure contracts.  He's cut off his wife's divorce payments when she breathed to a magazine things he didn't like.  He relishes power over others, particularly the ability to fire them.  It's his power move and makes him feel stronger, as does adulation from nearly any source.  We can expect he will continue to fire his top staff as he did those who ran his campaign.  He is a creature of the media (even pretending to be his own made up press secretary!) and lives for applause.   cough cough Mussolini..

 

 

On the other hand every new regime and there cabinet gets called fascist by the opposing party.  It's part of the political game.  But Trump is a different animal.  I'll give you that. 

 

Freedom and fascism runs on a pendulum.   Right now there are alot of cross currents fighting, particularly on the extremes.  Trump has stated he will be the law and order president.  It will interesting to see how he handles the next Ferguson and how it runs.

I hope he handles the next Ferguson better than the last President handled the previous Ferguson...

[blackstar212]

Ahh the beauty of definitions.

 

Define something very strictly then deviate from one or two points then say " Oh no that's not me"

 

LOL

[Trunk]

Thank you for the opening post list, Aaron.

 

11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts -

 

Well, we have

- Jerry Fallwell Jr. tapped to head a committee to review the federal dept of education for regulations that should be cut.

- And the National Endowment for the Arts was just killed entirely.

[Brian]

Thank you for the opening post list, Aaron.

 

 

Well, we have

- Jerry Fallwell Jr. tapped to head a committee to review the federal dept of education for regulations that should be cut.

- And the National Endowment for the Arts was just killed entirely.

Ummm...

 

You do know the story circulating through social media and fanned by legacy media outlets about how Trump has completely killed the NEA (complete with faux obituaries) isn't true, right? It's what might be called "scare tactics" or "fake news" or "propaganda." The Ministry of Truth is working overtime on this one because the NEA is essentially a Progressive slush fund of about $150M/year.

[dust]

Well, your new healthcare plan certainly isn't fascist. Mussolini gave pretty good coverage as far as I know.

[ralis]

Perhaps some here remember freshman psychology classes in which the Milgram experiments were discussed. The experiment was conducted again in Poland and confirms what I have stated in that the humans species remains unevolved and willingly obedient to authority/authoritarianism.

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/milgram-poland-experiment-recreated-authority-obedience-research-social-psychology-a7628981.html?cmpid=facebook-post

 

 

Our objective was to examine how high a level of obedience we would encounter among residents of Poland,” write the authors. “It should be emphasized that tests in the Milgram paradigm have never been conducted in Central Europe. The unique history of the countries in the region made the issue of obedience towards authority seem exceptionally interesting to us.

 

 

Some 90 per cent of the people involved were wiling to go all the way up to the highest level of shock, the researchers found. That was limited somewhat when people thought they were shocking a woman, though the researchers caution that the sample size is too small to say definitively.

[Trunk]

Timothy David Snyder (born August 18, 1969) is an American historian, author, and academic specializing in the history of Central and Eastern Europe, and the Holocaust. He is a professor at Yale University and is affiliated with the Institute for Human Sciences in Vienna and the College of Europe in Natolin, Warsaw, Poland. Snyder is a member of the Council on Foreign Relations.

 

He is the author of On Tyranny: Twenty Lessons from the Twentieth Century. (digital $3.99, paperback $5.42)
 

 

Edited March 28, 2017 by Trunk

[MooNiNite]

Obama is more fascist than Trump.

 

Obama made serious strides towards " mobilization of society under a totalitarian one-party state as necessary to prepare a nation for armed conflict and to respond effectively to economic difficulties."

By controlling the media, controlling healthcare, and doing more drone bombings and military spending in probably us history. 

[MooNiNite]

Trump is taking power away from the federal government and giving it back to the states. And also doing everything he can to get the federal government out of health care.

 

Trump therefore is a champion of democracy and trying hard to lead the usa away from fascism that was built by Obama. 

[MooNiNite]

The word "Fascist" is incredibly mis-used.

 

Good video explaining what Fascism actually is:

 

It actually isn't possible to have a reasonable conversation with someone who thinks Trump, someone fighting to lower taxes and federal control, is more fascist than Obama who has done nothing but strengthen the federal government control, minimize healthcare options, and control the media. 

[silent thunder]

For me, the most accurate descriptive name for the current American political climate is one of Corporate Oligarchy.

[futuredaze]

Some interesting observations by the Dilbert guy, Scott Adams:

 

http://blog.dilbert.com/post/158812654486/trump-and-healthcare

 

Talks about the "Trump is Hitler" illusion.

[MooNiNite]

For me, the most accurate descriptive name for the current American political climate is one of Corporate Oligarchy.

 

It's especially obvious when our military spends 20 million on Firewood. 

[MooNiNite]

sounds like corruption to me:

 

http://www.businessinsider.com/pentagon-troop-numbers-2017-3