Trumpcare

[ralis]

Costs are really hard to compare because it isn't apples to apples, because it isn't a level playing field, and because of government involvement (almost across the board but in different ways). Here's an interesting comparison, though:

 

http://www.shanghairanking.com/FieldMED2012.html

 

 

Government involvement? I guess there should be no standards for a medical education?

[Brian]

I bet USA has the most expensive schooling costs when it comes to being a doctor

As another point of reference, here are some (dated) Canadian med school tuition costs (primarily to show​ the variation):

 

http://www.macleans.ca/news/canada/how-much-they-pay-for-it

[Brian]

Government involvement? I guess there should be no standards for a medical education?

Not talking about "standards" -- hell, Harvard is top-ranked in the world and they refuse to accept Federal funds specifically so they don't have to comply with Federal and "regional accreditation" standards.

 

Just something to chew on...

[Brian]

As an example of the sort of Federal involvement US schools are subjected to, did you know it is illegal for any college or university receiving any Federal funding to penalize a pregnant woman for being absent from class even if she doesn't tell the school she is pregnant?

Edited March 20, 2017 by Brian

[MooNiNite]

Costs are really hard to compare because it isn't apples to apples, because it isn't a level playing field, and because of government involvement (almost across the board but in different ways). Here's an interesting comparison, though:

 

http://www.shanghairanking.com/FieldMED2012.html

 

Its not hard to compare currencies. Its also not hard to estimate education costs. Every school has a base charge for their education. We can ignore all the government aspects, because not all students apply for federal aid. Sure we wont get the most accurate figures, but they will still be somewhat accurate when doing a cross-country comparison.

[Brian]

Its not hard to compare currencies. Its also not hard to estimate education costs. Every school has a base charge for their education. We can ignore all the government aspects, because not all students apply for federal aid. Sure we wont get the most accurate figures, but they will still be somewhat accurate when doing a cross-country comparison.

As a starting point for you, I can tell you that one year of tuition at US medical schools range between about $12k and about $55k (list price).

 

I'll be interested to see how your comparison shapes up!

 

I should warn you, though, that at least one of your assumptions is very wrong -- about 90% of US college students currently receive some form of Federal aid...

[MooNiNite]

As a starting point for you, I can tell you that one year of tuition at US medical schools range between about $12k and about $55k (list price).

 

I'll be interested to see how your comparison shapes up!

 

I should warn you, though, that at least one of your assumptions is very wrong -- about 90% of US college students currently receive some form of Federal aid...

 

Well it is pretty easy to apply for. im thinking about applying for it myself, even though there are members in my family that would gladly pay it. There is a more do-it-yourself feeling to using federal aid. 

[MooNiNite]

Americans arn't forced to pay for obamacare anymore

 

http://trump.news/2017-02-18-irs-wont-enforce-obamacare-penalty-for-uninsured.html

[ralis]

Trumpcare went down in flames today!

[MooNiNite]

thats a bad thing. 

 

#dalaiTrump

Edited March 24, 2017 by MooNiNite

[MooNiNite]

hopefully obama and comey and all the government dems go down in flames too, considering they undoubtedly spied on Trump. 

Edited March 24, 2017 by MooNiNite

[MooNiNite]

Trump might just redirect his energy towards putting Obama in prison. 

[Brian]

The promise was full repeal to allow for a fresh start and a different approach. Tweaking a bad plan would result in transfer of ownership and set the stage for "Trumpcare is crashing, guess we should have kept Obamacare."

[Kar3n]

Insurance companies have been pulling out of the exchange since the slush fund ran out last year. With no additional funding or bailouts on the horizon the ACA will die on its own and can then be replaced, hopefully with better results.

[MooNiNite]

Directly from Trump :

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1U5ek7FbnXkdirectly from trump:

[idquest]

Insurance companies have been pulling out of the exchange since the slush fund ran out last year. With no additional funding or bailouts on the horizon the ACA will die on its own and can then be replaced, hopefully with better results.

 

Isn't ACA supposed to be funded by Feds? Why would it collapse unless modified?

 

I'm also wondering how Trump is hoping to get a tax overhaul if he can't deal with much easier task (comparatively only) such as ACA. 

[Kar3n]

Isn't ACA supposed to be funded by Feds? Why would it collapse unless modified?

 

I'm also wondering how Trump is hoping to get a tax overhaul if he can't deal with much easier task (comparatively only) such as ACA. 

The idea was that it is supposed to be self sustaining. This has not been the case.

 

The hope for the ACA was that young, healthy people would buy insurance to allow the insurance companies to use their premiums for newly-insured sick patients. However, the sick patients got insurance while the healthy patients opted not to. The penalty for young, heathy individuals not choosing coverage was also intended to off-set costs, however, that has now been repealed.

 

The tax overhaul is up next, I am optimistic that there will be changes that favor all income brackets. Time will tell...

[dawei]

hopefully obama and comey and all the government dems go down in flames too, considering they undoubtedly spied on Trump. 

 

 

Trump might just redirect his energy towards putting Obama in prison. 

 

Let's at least stay on topic...    Your posting quite a bit today... just an observation

[dawei]

The idea was that it is supposed to be self sustaining. This has not been the case.

 

The hope for the ACA was that young, healthy people would buy insurance to allow the insurance companies to use their premiums for newly-insured sick patients. However, the sick patients got insurance while the healthy patients opted not to. The penalty for young, heathy individuals not choosing coverage was also intended to off-set costs, however, that has now been repealed.

 

The tax overhaul is up next, I am optimistic that there will be changes that favor all income brackets. Time will tell...

 

I wonder what were the forecasts on how many would get health care provided by the Fed $$... and how much did they actually spend.

 

The reason I ask is, there is also a group of folks who went after free (or generally free) care...  so curious how much was spend on them or at least those subsidized. 

[MooNiNite]

Let's at least stay on topic...    Your posting quite a bit today... just an observation

Cool observation!!!!!!

 

First of all, I couldn't care less what you think. You are taking bits and pieces pieces out of context. 

 

Second of all, the dems going up in flames is a response to Trumps health bill going up in flames. 

 

Third of all, Trump redirecting his energy towards putting Obama in prison, is an assumption that his energy has been put into TrumpCare.

[Kar3n]

I wonder what were the forecasts on how many would get health care provided by the Fed $$... and how much did they actually spend.

 

The reason I ask is, there is also a group of folks who went after free (or generally free) care...  so curious how much was spend on them or at least those subsidized. 

A quick search yielded the following fro October of last year...

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/10/25/obamacare-fallout-as-premiums-rise-so-does-cost-to-taxpayers.html

 

I am perusing the Congressional Budget Office's website for more definitive figures.

https://www.cbo.gov/topics/health-care/affordable-care-act

https://www.cbo.gov/publication/51385

[MooNiNite]

It's actually not so simple to find the deficit impact of ACA.

 

Iv seen figures from 1.7 trillion to 5 trillion. 

[dawei]

Cool observation!!!!!!

 

First of all, I couldn't care less what you think. You are taking bits and pieces pieces out of context. 

 

that's fine... but the staff still pays attention to the 'spammer' side of things.  These are not just a dumping ground of anything.  The goals were stated in the pinned topic and of course its loosely enforced but it is not to be a platform for any one person's desire to post so much it turns off others from talking anymore.

[dawei]

A quick search yielded the following fro October of last year...

 

It is a difficult number as I see CBO numbers vary by article.

 

I think the main problems are that there are groups of folks who are either helped or not helped but there is no view towards understanding the problem.  Those who get subsidies are not going to complain.   The problem is, lots of folks are getting subsides that should not. 

 

But it seems about 10,000,000 people received subsidies.    The CBO said that the AHCA would cause 14,000,000 to lose insurance by 2018...   So why would the AHCA cause that if it is supposedly based on competition, etc ?   The studies just don't add up no matter which side makes claims.

 

 

The current administration is stuck inbetween groups on this:

1. Dems - don't want any change so one should not of expected any votes from them

2. Moderate Reps - They lean toward some Dem ideas and want to avoid too much repeal

3. House Caucus - I think these guys might of caused most of the problem by not accepting the RyanCare plan.  My understanding is that they want to go much further in 'repeal' and don't like Phase 2 and 3 yet, and didn't see the proof that costs will go down.

4. Conservative Reps - Seemed to generally get in line behind Ryan but it was not enough.

 

I personally do think it was rushed a little too much.  While I think it is natural to try and secure more votes with compromise, the direction they take now will be very telling:  Move more towards the Dems (and pickup the Moderate Reps) or join more with the HC and go further towards repeal.   The irony will be if they do the latter, then some will realize that Ryancare wasn't so bad.

 

I think they should also evaluate other plans that are being pushed.  Time to find out what makes sense to the widest group. 

[Kar3n]

I agree on all counts. I have seen so many different figures for both dollars spent and individuals who have received subsidies that not much of it make sense.

 

I am still reading, and still nothing definitive...