Trumpcare

[Brian]

Brian?  "[...]  provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States. [...]"

 

What is this "general welfare" crap? Could that include Universal Heathcare?

Nope.

 

The idea that "general welfare" can include any good idea that might "help everyone" is a canard. If that had been the intent of the framers, they certainly wouldn't have bothered to identify specific authorizations. Instead, the Constitution would say something like "the Federal government is empowered to take any actions it deems appropriate."

 

Thomas Jefferson wrote: “[T]he laying of taxes is the power, and the general welfare the purpose for which the power is to be exercised. They [Congress] are not to lay taxes ad libitum for any purpose they please; but only to pay the debts or provide for the welfare of the Union. In like manner, they are not to do anything they please to provide for the general welfare, but only to lay taxes for that purpose.”

 

James Madison wrote: "Some, who have not denied the necessity of the power of taxation, have grounded a very fierce attack against the Constitution, on the language in which it is defined. It has been urged and echoed, that the power 'to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts, and excises, to pay the debts, and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States,’ amounts to an unlimited commission to exercise every power which may be alleged to be necessary for the common defense or general welfare. No stronger proof could be given of the distress under which these writers labor for objections, than their stooping to such a misconstruction. Had no other enumeration or definition of the powers of the Congress been found in the Constitution, than the general expressions just cited, the authors of the objection might have had some color for it; though it would have been difficult to find a reason for so awkward a form of describing an authority to legislate in all possible cases."

 

Until 1936 (think "FDR & "The New Deal"), this was the unambiguous view of the Supreme Court, too.

 

The Constitution is very specific, BTW, of referencing the general welfare of the United States rather than the public welfare or the welfare of the People. The intent was clearly to provide taxing authority for the execution of those duties and responsibilities laid upon the Federal government by the States.

 

Get an amendment passed authorizing the Federal government to provide "Universal Healthcare" and this becomes one of the enumerated powers.

[Brian]

I spent some time in the Mojave Desert during the winter and chose to drive through North Las Vegas. The poverty and homelessness was horrifying to me. Poverty and homelessness are not isolated events, but are social problems that effect all of us. Part of a broken system that rewards the very wealthy and leaves behind the less fortunate.

 

The radical right wing could care less if people are dying on the street for lack of housing, food and healthcare.

 

Both houses of the Nevada Legislature are controlled by Democrats, ralis, and the current Governor (who is a Republican) was reelected in a landslide victory despite the state selecting the Democrat presidential candidate in the last three elections. Blaming "the radical right-wing" for what's happening in Nevada is like blaming "the radical right-wing" for political decisions in Chicago or Baltimore or LA.

[ralis]

Both houses of the Nevada Legislature are controlled by Democrats, ralis, and the current Governor (who is a Republican) was reelected in a landslide victory despite the state selecting the Democrat presidential candidate in the last three elections. Blaming "the radical right-wing" for what's happening in Nevada is like blaming "the radical right-wing" for political decisions in Chicago or Baltimore or LA.

 

 

I stand by what I have always said regarding the radical right wing. It has been showing in Congress with the healthcare issue and women's health access rights. The Vegas problem that I posted is part of a larger problem and if you read my post you would have seen that. What you fail to understand is that we are all part of a system and not separate islands in a sea of nothingness.

Edited March 31, 2017 by ralis

[Spotless]

Both houses of the Nevada Legislature are controlled by Democrats, ralis, and the current Governor (who is a Republican) was reelected in a landslide victory despite the state selecting the Democrat presidential candidate in the last three elections. Blaming "the radical right-wing" for what's happening in Nevada is like blaming "the radical right-wing" for political decisions in Chicago or Baltimore or LA.

If you come to know Nevada - you come to understand that it is completely "owned" by business and kept from complete depravity by a nearly powerless political system - the democrats are simply a meek voice that fights like hell on behalf of the excessively underpaid 98% of those working there.

[Brian]

I stand by what I have always said regarding the radical right wing. It has been showing in Congress with the healthcare issue and women's health access rights. The Vegas problem that I posted is part of a larger problem and if you read my post you would have seen that. What you fail to understand is that we are all part of a system and not separate islands in a sea of nothingness.

I read your post, ralis. I always read your posts! "Congress" is not responsible for the citizens of Nevada choosing to allow the conditions you describe -- nor is the Federal government authorized (or able!) to "fix that problem."

 

Since LBJ began "The War on Poverty" in 1964, as part of "The Great Society," the Federal government has spent more than $22 Trillion (not including spending on Social Security or Medicare) to fix the poverty problem in America. This is more than all the money spent on all the actual, physical wars in US history. Over the last 50+ years, however, we are told the problem has gotten worse.

 

What does that tell you? OK, that's a rhetorical question because I know it tells you that we just need to give more power and more money to the central government.

 

The rich & powerful central government IS the problem; it cannot also be the solution.

[ralis]

If you come to know Nevada - you come to understand that it is completely "owned" by business and kept from complete depravity by a nearly powerless political system - the democrats are simply a meek voice that fights like hell on behalf of the excessively underpaid 98% of those working there.

 

 

The casinos have absolute control since the days of the mob. Also the casino industry has kept other forms of business from moving in, except construction.

[Gerry]

Jesus I turn my back to watch Fox News and the world explodes.   I think when mankind could barter with the next clan over we were a better species.

[ralis]

Jesus I turn my back to watch Fox News and the world explodes.   I think when mankind could barter with the next clan over we were a better species.

 

As I have said many times on this forum is that the humans species remains unevolved with great propensity to violence, with the  lower reptilian brain stem as the predominate force. Apply just the appropriate stressor and all hell breaks loose.

[Brian]

If you come to know Nevada - you come to understand that it is completely "owned" by business and kept from complete depravity by a nearly powerless political system - the democrats are simply a meek voice that fights like hell on behalf of the excessively underpaid 98% of those working there.

The "Democrats" can elect whoever they wish, including politicians who aren't corrupt. If you keep electing corrupt politicians, who is to blame for the politicians in power being corrupt?

 

As to Nevada being "owned" by business... It is interesting to look at "who" actually owns Nevada -- nearly 85% of the State of Nevada is actually owned by the Federal government. If anything, Nevadans should be trying to get the Federal government OUT of Nevada rather than demanding they play an even bigger role, don't you think?

[ralis]

The "Democrats" can elect whoever they wish, including politicians who aren't corrupt. If you keep electing corrupt politicians, who is to blame for the politicians in power being corrupt?

 

As to Nevada being "owned" by business... It is interesting to look at "who" actually owns Nevada -- nearly 85% of the State of Nevada is actually owned by the Federal government. If anything, Nevadans should be trying to get the Federal government OUT of Nevada rather than demanding they play an even bigger role, don't you think?

 

 

That is land and not business. There are only a few cities with sometimes hundreds of miles of desert land in between. I have driven through most of it.

Edited March 31, 2017 by ralis

[Brian]

Jesus I turn my back to watch Fox News and the world explodes.   I think when mankind could barter with the next clan over we were a better species.

I totally agree! We (the species) are family-oriented, including extended families (clans, tribes, etc.) The management of hundreds of millions of people as if they are a block is beyond silly, and is almost guaranteed to blow up.

[Brian]

That is land and not business. There are only a few cities with sometimes hundreds of miles of desert land in between. I have driven through most of it.

Exactly! Lots of government-owned land with a sparse population which is largely conservative, politically speaking, and dense concentrations of people in urban environments mainly run by "the radical left-wing." Which group is asking for Congress to solve their problems and which group is asking to be left alone?

[ralis]

Exactly! Lots of government-owned land with a sparse population which is largely conservative, politically speaking, and dense concentrations of people in urban environments mainly run by "the radical left-wing." Which group is asking for Congress to solve their problems and which group is asking to be left alone?

 

 

The casino owners are hardly 'left wing'. Just ask Sheldon Adelson what his political views are. He pushed against the Cannabis legislation vote and he lost. Soon there will be public venues where anyone can vape in public. The casino bosses are not in favor of that, but will eventually come around.

Edited March 31, 2017 by ralis

[ralis]

I totally agree! We (the species) are family-oriented, including extended families (clans, tribes, etc.) The management of hundreds of millions of people as if they are a block is beyond silly, and is almost guaranteed to blow up.

 

 

I agree with the bold part, but the social dynamics of population has changed and become more complex.

[Gerry]

If Congress were to pass a law, and get the President to sign it, establishing a program to ensure poor kids get free milkshakes (or, in a "universal right" rather than "redistribution" framework, to ensure "all Americans have equal access to chocolate milkshakes regardless of ability to pay"), this would be fundamentally unconstitutional. Using the enforcement capacity of the IRS to extract money from taxpayers for the purposes of providing "free milkshakes for everyone" might be popular in some quarters but it would be theft.

 

How about equal access to school vouchers?  School nutritional support programs?

 

The IRS is always extracting our money under the penalties of jail or hell.  One man's milkshake is another man's B1, or tax loophole.  There are some I like and other I do not.  Their moral superiority is also relevant to your personal politics.  What did Steven King say in "It",  'They all float down here!"

[Brian]

Casino owners are in favor of using government to benefit their organizations. The bigger and more intrusive, the better -- as long as that intrusion is for their benefit.

 

As to Adelson himself:

I didn't leave the Democrat Party; Party left me

[Gerry]

I totally agree! We (the species) are family-oriented, including extended families (clans, tribes, etc.) The management of hundreds of millions of people as if they are a block is beyond silly, and is almost guaranteed to blow up.

See!

 

As an ecology minded fellow I believe the best thing for Gaia would be the elimination of 7 Billion of us.  That would leave just 500M of us to  start the F-up all over. 

[Brian]

How about equal access to school vouchers?  School nutritional support programs?

 

The IRS is always extracting our money under the penalties of jail or hell.  One man's milkshake is another man's B1, or tax loophole.  There are some I like and other I do not.  Their moral superiority is also relevant to your personal politics.  What did Steven King say in "It",  'They all float down here!"

"The IRS is always extracting our money under the penalties of jail or hell."

 

Exactly! This is a big part of the problem, not justification for compounding it!

 

The Constitution provides no authority for the Federal government to be taking taxpayer money for the purpose of education. Quibbling about how to divide & distribute the stolen loot is missing the point of the crime itself.

 

Since the Federal government began inserting itself with gusto into education (remember that the US Department of Education was created under Jimmy Carter) the US "war on ignorance" (or whatever we're calling it) has steadily grown in scale while the results have gotten steadily worse. The Federal government now employs more than 4,000 people (including its own SWAT team) and spends nearly $100 billion a year -- and it has regulatory control over any school which accepts any of that money back.

Edited March 31, 2017 by Brian

[Brian]

See!

 

As an ecology minded fellow I believe the best thing for Gaia would be the elimination of 7 Billion of us.  That would leave just 500M of us to  start the F-up all over.

That seems reasonable but I wouldn't go so far as to say anyone has the authority to take such an action.

 

Perhaps something like a modern-day Carrington Event will restore balance.

 

Fifty million years from now, Gaia will hardly remember our current tempest.

[Gerry]

That seems reasonable but I wouldn't go so far as to say anyone has the authority to take such an action.

 

Perhaps something like a modern-day Carrington Event will restore balance.

 

Fifty million years from now, Gaia will hardly remember our current tempest.

George Carlin line was some thing like:  Planet Earth is going to be just fine, it humans that are fucked.

 

Take action?  Hell CRISPR is such an easy technology we will do it to ourselves.  That is something to worry about not mini black hole from a  Hadron Collider.

 

Did you hear that there is thought that the Clovis extinction could have been comet/meteor air burst event?  The dates in this post are 10 years old, but I read a recent, less than a month, article on the topic.

[ralis]

George Carlin line was some thing like:  Planet Earth is going to be just fine, it humans that are fucked.

 

Take action?  Hell CRISPR is such an easy technology we will do it to ourselves.  That is something to worry about not mini black hole from a  Hadron Collider.

 

Did you hear that there is thought that the Clovis extinction could have been comet/meteor air burst event?  The dates in this post are 10 years old, but I read a recent, less than a month, article on the topic.

 

 

Nature will have the last say. We are already in the 6th mass extinction and when keystone species are extinct, whole ecosystems will collapse. The honeybee is one example of a threatened keystone species.

[Brian]

George Carlin line was some thing like:  Planet Earth is going to be just fine, it humans that are fucked.

 

Take action?  Hell CRISPR is such an easy technology we will do it to ourselves.  That is something to worry about not mini black hole from a  Hadron Collider.

 

Did you hear that there is thought that the Clovis extinction could have been comet/meteor air burst event?  The dates in this post are 10 years old, but I read a recent, less than a month, article on the topic.

Yeah, CRISPR is disturbing, especially since we already have people trying to use it on humans. We had some discussion last summer about genetic research being done in the name of "mosquito control" which looks quite suspicious...

 

The Clovis extinction is very interesting -- the scope and probable sequence of events we've pieced together suggest it wasn't a pleasant time to be in North America.

[ralis]

Yeah, CRISPR is disturbing, especially since we already have people trying to use it on humans. We had some discussion last summer about genetic research being done in the name of "mosquito control" which looks quite suspicious...

 

The Clovis extinction is very interesting -- the scope and probable sequence of events we've pieced together suggest it wasn't a pleasant time to be in North America.

 

To add, the Yellowstone calderas of which there are three are very active and forming a dome beneath Yellowstone lake. Lest we forget the Valles Caldera which sits just above Los Alamos National Labs is dormant and not extinct as was previously thought. Yellowstone would emit around 750 cubic miles of ash and pyroclastic debris/flow. The Valles Caldera is around 250 cubic miles. Both are capable of extinction and nuclear winter events.

[Brian]

To add, the Yellowstone calderas of which there are three are very active and forming a dome beneath Yellowstone lake. Lest we forget the Valles Caldera which sits just above Los Alamos National Labs is dormant and not extinct as was previously thought. Yellowstone would emit around 750 cubic miles of ash and pyroclastic debris/flow. The Valles Caldera is around 250 cubic miles. Both are capable of extinction and nuclear winter events.

I knew about Yellowstone but not the Valles Caldera!

[Gerry]

Nature will have the last say. We are already in the 6th mass extinction and when keystone species are extinct, whole ecosystems will collapse. The honeybee is one example of a threatened keystone species.

We are nature.  This extinction is mostly our goblin, but I think it is more complicated than that.

 

As to the honeybees, I think that is an easy fix.  Nanotechnology bees.  Drone bees. Easy peasy in less than 10 years.