What happens after death?

[laughingblade]

...death can be simulated...

 

I stumble here, as I stumble when people tell me their NDEs tell them something about what happens after death. And an outdated belief that you're dead when the heart stops beating. It's like some other monkey-brain takes me over yelling "you weren't DEAD dude!"

 

I used to think the Buddhists knew a bit about it, but then when I finally read the Abidharma it weaselled out of the bits about how we come in and go out: shame really since it's so detailed on just about every aspect of experience.

 

Then I used to think the Tibetan Buddhists knew a bit about it: Book of the Dead, indestructible drops etc. Then I read (English philosopher) Juilan Baggini in The Ego Trick where he pins a well-respected Tulku on precisely this question and the Tulku admits he's just learned that stuff.

 

Maybe the Taoists know something?

 

(edit: monkey-fingers)

Edited March 15, 2017 by laughingblade

[Marblehead]

Maybe the Taoists know something?

 

 

 

We don't know much either.

[C T]

I stumble here, as I stumble when people tell me their NDEs tell them something about what happens after death. And an outdated belief that you're dead when the heart stops beating. It's like some other monkey-brain takes me over yelling "you weren't DEAD dude!"

 

I used to think the Buddhists knew a bit about it, but then when I finally read the Abidharma it weaselled out of the bits about how we come in and go out: shame really since it's so detailed on just about every aspect of experience.

 

Then I used to think the Tibetan Buddhists knew a bit about it: Book of the Dead, indestructible drops etc. Then I read (English philosopher) Juilan Baggini in The Ego Trick where he pins a well-respected Tulku on precisely this question and the Tulku admits he's just learned that stuff.

 

Maybe the Taoists know something?

 

(edit: monkey-fingers)

A well-respected Tulku is a very broad stroke, no? One tulku. one.. Moreover, these Tibetans are well-known for their self-effacing demeanour. 

 

Anyway, not to contend with you too much, but in order to really get the mind opened on this subject, its a good idea to travel and try to meet some of these hidden adepts - who knows, one might get lucky and get shown things that cannot be read from books. 

[laughingblade]

Contending with the monkey...

 

stumble and grumble, at the "those who know do not speak" implication. Isn't that just so tired by now? Anyway, I can't get everywhere, so I have to rely on others' experience to pre-filter (especially when it comes to brain surgery to investigate consciousness, or re-running the Stanford Prison Experiment). What should I do? Head East, or is it West? Maybe Kwai Chang Kane had the right approach?

 

Just one Tulku to be sure, but a Tulku is supposed to be a conscious reincarnation isn't he? And also trained in precisely the inner practices that elaborate on the mystery of death. And AFAIK he didn't just smile inscrutably, he actually admitted to not knowing.

 

But yeah! I'd LOVE to travel, and meet folks, and do long retreats, and all sorts. Just haven't got (and can't quite see how to, without causing a deal of suffering to others) the setup to do it right now. Sometimes I grumble about that as well.

[RiverSnake]

Its a waiting game.    

[silent thunder]

one thing seems certain... we'll all get our chance to find out.

 

I'm endlessly curious, yet in no hurry.

[Brian]

Well, let`s just say I`m not known for my rational mind.  Let me reframe the general idea so the timeline isn`t so twisted.  I believe there`s an inverse relationship between present-day life satisfaction and fear of death.  So, in general, the less satisfactory the life, the more fear of death.

 

Suppose we came up with a questionaire that validly and reliably measured how engaged people were with the things they wanted to do in life (using that as a proxy for "life satisfaction").  Let`s throw out the data at the very bottom, say the 5% unhappiest folks.  Some of those people are probably depressed in a way that makes them more open to death.  My contention is that the people in the happiness range of say the bottom 5 to 30 percent are more afraid of death than the happiest 10 percent at the top.  

 

It`s counterintuitive.  You`d think that the people leading subjectively crappy lifes would be less afraid to die, but I don`t think it works that way.  

 

Do you disagree?

I think I see this sort of pattern in people, yes. I would probably replace "happy" with "content" and I suspect it has to do with attachment -- seems that attachments underlie anxieties so it seems reasonable, I suppose, that attachment to life would map to anxiety about that attachment being threatened. Those with less attachment to the trappings of life (interesting term, "trappings") are both more likely to be content with their situation and less likely to feel anxious about a future discontinuation of or separation from those trappings.

 

Thank you.

[Marblehead]

one thing seems certain... we'll all get our chance to find out.

 

I'm endlessly curious, yet in no hurry.

 

Yeah, it's going to have to grab me by the ass because I'm not going willingly.

[cold]

Well that's certainly one option! Maybe not optimal ?

[Marblehead]

Well that's certainly one option! Maybe not optimal ?

 

Oh, let's not put value judgements on my reality, okay?

[Brian]

Okay, your reality has no determinable value.

Or one might say his reality is invaluable.

 

[Gerard]

Irrelevant..

 

Indeed. Focus on HERE NOW = 24/7

 

When the time comes you'll move on to the next stage/round. And so forth until the game is over.

 

[s1va]

Its like every single dream and nightmare in one's lifetime, all of it gets replayed, only this time there are no gross impediments to filter the vividness. For example, while alive, if a nightmare gets too extreme, survival instinct kicks in and usually jolts a person awake, accompanied by bewilderment for a brief moment. After the body disconnects with the breath for good, there won't be the luxury of accessing any such instinctual support, and what follows in the interim are usually unimaginable confusion and fear, then a period tinged with immense affection, warmth, love, light and so on, with both phases occurring randomly.

 

Every single dream and nightmare will get replayed vividly, no escape.  Really?  what would be the purpose or reason for something like this?  To repeat the nightmares a person already went through, one more time in detail, vividly without instinctual support???  (Does it happen in IMAX 3D?  Will the dead person get googles?  If so, do you know what kind of goggles also? Does the sound play on Dolby or DTS?  I personally prefer DTS, can I book ahead)

 

I am curious.  where are these things that you describe, stated? in what scripture or books? Whatever be the source, it sounds like crap to me.  Creator or no creator, no one would want to put some one through a process like that.  there should be a reason and rhyme for things, or there should be none.  I am sorry to state this, whichever way I look, whatever you have written sounds nonsense.  There may be some minor truths in it.

 

Edited to add:  Death is just a transition in the state of consciousness.  Just like from the dream state to the waking state.  Yes, this worldly life is a much more complicated and intricate dream.  When we wake up (die) from this dream, the transition can possibly be hard and shocking.  There could even be flashes like flashes of dream.  Still, it is nothing but getting out of one dream to another state.  But, playing "all nightmares back vividly" once again???  What is this, some kind of rewind back and play all the nightmare with added effects and no reprieve.  Sounds like a pre-planned torture scheme.   If this were to be true, whoever or whatever designed this playback of all vivid nightmares should be cruel with no heart.

Edited March 17, 2017 by kāvēri

[liminal_luke]

Two of lifes unanswerable mysteries: what happens after death, and the value of Marblehead`s reality.  

[Brian]

Two of lifes unanswerable mysteries: what happens after death, and the value of Marblehead`s reality.

$2.98

[taoteching99]

Indeed. Focus on HERE NOW = 24/7

 

When the time comes you'll move on to the next stage/round. And so forth until the game is over.

 

Thanks ☺ Edited March 17, 2017 by taoteching99

[Sudhamma]

The Bardo training of the TibetanBuddhists is an attempt to train the Mind for the "last thought moment" that determines the next birth. The Mind is weakest when it is deteriorating and dying, and the ardent Bardo training of the person dying during his life-time may tip the scale against bad karma (which influences a 'bad' rebirth). If successful, the fruition of bad karma in the next birth gets postponed. However, a Bardo 'instructor' has to be present to give verbal instruction to the dying person.

Edited March 17, 2017 by Sudhamma

[C T]

Every single dream and nightmare will get replayed vividly, no escape.  Really?  what would be the purpose or reason for something like this?  To repeat the nightmares a person already went through, one more time in detail, vividly without instinctual support???  (Does it happen in IMAX 3D?  Will the dead person get googles?  If so, do you know what kind of goggles also? Does the sound play on Dolby or DTS?  I personally prefer DTS, can I book ahead)

 

I am curious.  where are these things that you describe, stated? in what scripture or books? Whatever be the source, it sounds like crap to me.  Creator or no creator, no one would want to put some one through a process like that.  there should be a reason and rhyme for things, or there should be none.  I am sorry to state this, whichever way I look, whatever you have written sounds nonsense.  There may be some minor truths in it.

 

Edited to add:  Death is just a transition in the state of consciousness.  Just like from the dream state to the waking state.  Yes, this worldly life is a much more complicated and intricate dream.  When we wake up (die) from this dream, the transition can possibly be hard and shocking.  There could even be flashes like flashes of dream.  Still, it is nothing but getting out of one dream to another state.  But, playing "all nightmares back vividly" once again???  What is this, some kind of rewind back and play all the nightmare with added effects and no reprieve.  Sounds like a pre-planned torture scheme.   If this were to be true, whoever or whatever designed this playback of all vivid nightmares should be cruel with no heart.

You mean you have never heard or read comparisons between the dying process and falling asleep? How strange. 

[Marblehead]

From an alternative perspective:  What happens before death?

[taoteching99]

From an alternative perspective:  What happens before death?

 

what do u think?

[Marblehead]

what do u think?

 

We have the opportunity to live.

[cold]

And ponder death among other tings from time to time.

Is this real, or Memorex? For instance.

[s1va]

You mean you have never heard or read comparisons between the dying process and falling asleep? How strange. 

 

I wrote right there on the bottom about transitioning from dream to the waking state.  I think death is a similar transition.  We all die everyday.  So, there is nothing new in this.  No, vivid replay of all previous nightmares put together.

 

We have all lived, slept, dreamt, woke up, died, reincarnated in cycles before.  It's just a process.  We have done it so many times.  In some experiences I know what I was in some previous births.  I can state with confidence, there is no such thing as the process you described in detail.  This is completely different from one person to another.  It is different for the same person from one night to the night, one  death to the next...

[s1va]

I am not a great fan J. Krishnamurti these days.  But, to put away all these misconceptions about death his books or talks give such clarity.

 

 

Jiddu Krishnamurti talks on Death:   https://youtu.be/RK4UoJpkv_M

 

 

 

​(PS:  Not able to embed youtube video, not sure what is wrong)

[Fa Xin]

I'm not sure what happens but I'll find out someday. I have ideas about it that seem to constantly change.

 

An interesting thing about NDEs is most people feel they are "going home". That's significant as it implies we've done this before IMO.