Forsaking yourself day by day(Daoism ,and others way)

[taoteching99]

This is something ive been thinking ,

 

" How do you forsake yourself day by day , (or everytime this idea comes to conscious mind,how do you do it?) even moment to moment ? "

 

 

The idea comes from a recorded talk i listened some time ago,( dont recalled the specifics of the talk) the talk is abt the practice of selflessness.

 

1. How do you practice selflessness? Not just in some external ways (donating money to beggar,social service,humanitarian work etc...),that is how you ACT selfless,but how you BE selfless?

 

2. How to BE selfless as much as possible,so that over time it becomes natural ? Not just selfless in social situation,but in all,such as when you are walking alone in the park,driving, how do you (try to )be selfless?

 

DAOISM speak abt natural ,effortless living(action), is this the same thing?that is to say,the giving up of ego/self and live moment to moment from the point of view of 'reduced'self as much as possible. For a fully realized sage (or long time practitioner) this is natural, but for most of us, this may be 'effortful'?

Edited March 21, 2017 by taoteching99

[Brian]

Remember that thread about shortcuts?

 

 

[taoteching99]

Edited March 21, 2017 by taoteching99

[cold]

I would tell you but that would qualify as a shortcut.

[Brian]

 

Why do you always appear to me to be in a state of shock? (make some sound in my head to add to the hilarity ) ?

I would point you to it but there's really little use in that as you have edited your posts there (as you have done here). I'll give you a hint, though -- the title is "Shortcut to enlightenment". You seemed upset (and rude) about the idea that there really isn't one (and you emphatically stated your belief in reincarnation as other species).

 

You can imagine any sounds in your head you wish, mind you, if your find that helps somehow...

 

[thelerner]

Here is my strange way.

 

I imagine 2 record players in my head.  The first plays a loud clear voice.. 'words' in my head.. 'the narrator voice' that assumes is me.. I lift the needle from the record and get some silence for a while. 

 

There is a second one, more subtle, it plays a tune of emotion.  Too often the album is 'Poor Me'..  I need to be aware of it and lift the needle off that one too.  Which can be harder.

 

Lastly there are rules, like computer code that is running both of these record players.  A series of If, Then rules often irrational, that pick the music.  These are even harder to control, but the more I'm aware of them, the easier it is to overcome the old programming. 

[Brian]

Here is my strange way.

 

I imagine 2 record players in my head.  The first plays a loud clear voice.. 'words' in my head.. 'the narrator voice' that assumes is me.. I lift the needle from the record and get some silence for a while. 

 

There is a second one, more subtle, it plays a tune of emotion.  Too often the album is 'Poor Me'..  I need to be aware of it and lift the needle off that one too.  Which can be harder.

 

Lastly there are rules, like computer code that is running both of these record players.  A series of If, Then rules often irrational, that pick the music.  These are even harder to control, but the more I'm aware of them, the easier it is to overcome the old programming.

Bar in downtown Black Mountain, NC, called "The Town Pump" used to have a jukebox in it -- not one of the old ones with 45s but a CD model. It was a free spirit.

 

Sometimes you could put money in it and it would play your song. Sometimes it would play something completely different. Sometimes it wouldn't play anything. Sometimes it would just start playing all by itself.

 

Some said it was haunted.

[cold]

Gives new meaning to "Prop me up beside the jukebox when I'm gone" ...

[9th]

This is something ive been thinking ,

 

" How do you forsake yourself day by day , (or everytime this idea comes to conscious mind,how do you do it?) even moment to moment ? "

 

 

The idea comes from a recorded talk i listened some time ago,( dont recalled the specifics of the talk) the talk is abt the practice of selflessness.

 

1. How do you practice selflessness? Not just in some external ways (donating money to beggar,social service,humanitarian work etc...),that is how you ACT selfless,but how you BE selfless?

 

2. How to BE selfless as much as possible,so that over time it becomes natural ? Not just selfless in social situation,but in all,such as when you are walking alone in the park,driving, how do you (try to )be selfless?

 

DAOISM speak abt natural ,effortless living(action), is this the same thing?that is to say,the giving up of ego/self and live moment to moment from the point of view of 'reduced'self as much as possible. For a fully realized sage (or long time practitioner) this is natural, but for most of us, this may be 'effortful'?

 

 

When you speak of things such as "how to be self-less" you may have already put it into a somewhat strange category of abstraction without realizing the implications.  

 

In the strictest sense, Id say that what you are speaking of is less about being "self-less" (which is itself a bit of an existential debate and can lead to very complicated theoretical musings) and more about releasing the fixation upon your own personal welfare at the expense of that which is around you.  In other words, the idea is to navigate your life from a position of open awareness - rather than from a position which is fixated on the importance of your own self, in your own body, with your own mind, living your own life.  So, I would say it has much more to do with "not being selfish" rather than the more existential concept of "being selfless".

 

That is why the most common prescription to approach this kind of reality is to engage in a voluntary public service of some sort, feeding the homeless, donating your time and energy to help others, etc. and so forth.  In this case, a precept or prescription or recommendation which motivates a person to engage in such public service in this way is intended as a remedial activity for those who have not already truly understood the value of not being selfish - for if they already understood, they would already be serving everyone around them in the best capacity they could.  If you have not engaged in such service, then you obviously would not be familiar with the benefits involved - and these kinds of things are prescribed for that reason.  As you ACT in a way that is not selfish, you come to learn and understand the implications of doing so much more thoroughly than simply hearing descriptions about it, or reading stories about it.

 

So in this way, the ACT of not being selfish is used as a bridge to actually BEING a person who is not selfish.  People who are looking to skip over the activity and simply become that through some other means may not be prepared for the implications or consequences of such a path.  It is one thing to already be a person who is not selfish and somewhat inclined to harmonious integration with the world, and therefore be able to skip ahead by virtue of this - however it is quite another for someone who is fixated on their own self-importance to an extreme degree to skip through all of their own misunderstandings and unhealthy actions that they create for themselves.  

 

While it certainly is indeed possible to have your world "drop out from below you" in such a way that your very being itself is forced to change radically - I really dont think people appreciate the magnitude of such a scenario.  And even if something like that were to happen - such radical change does not even begin to denote any kind of maturity or integration in terms of higher functions and total understanding and so forth.  Thats a bit like asking how to make an oak grow from a seed into a 20 foot tall tree in one day.  Its going to take a huge fucking miracle, dude.  So - I wouldnt count on it.

[Brian]

Gives new meaning to "Prop me up beside the jukebox when I'm gone" ...

Gotta cigarette-smoking buffalo hanging on the wall, too...

[liminal_luke]

We`re all in such different places.  I think selflessness, when it`s genuine and authentic, sneaks up on people.  We`ve all internalized messages from various spiritual teachings about "destroying the ego" and such.  Seems to me most of this talk about letting go of ego is premature and misguided.  It`s not that there isn`t a stage of spiritual development where people rightly let go of ego, just that most of us aren`t at that stage.  I know I`m not.

 

From where I`m standing, the next step isn`t to become selfless -- it`s to become self-ful.  I want to more fully inhabit myself.  I want to move towards relaxed awareness of my entire body and being.  To get all the different parts of my psyche in one room (more challenging than it sounds) and talking to each other.  I want to negotiate an internal ceasefire.

 

I`m not being overly modest; the vast majority of people need more work integrating the self.  There are a few here who I believe are engaged in more advanced work where some aspects of the self are dismantled -- or, more accurately, merged with larger cosmic forces.  Those people are quietly going about their business with little fanfare, and good for them.

 

I`d urge the rest of us, myself included, not to get ahead of ourselves.

 

LL 

Edited March 21, 2017 by liminal_luke

[taoteching99]

I would tell you but that would qualify as a shortcut.

Shortcut or longcut, i would like to hear both :-)

[taoteching99]

" While it certainly is indeed possible to have your world "drop out from below you" in such a way that your very being itself is forced to change radically "

 

Curious as why such thing happened to Ramana Maharshi , past lives dedication and (past lives)hard practice?

 

Thanks for the insights, appreciate it

Edited March 22, 2017 by taoteching99

[9th]

Curious as why such thing happened to Ramana Maharshi , past lives dedication and (past lives)hard practice?

 

Thats basically it, yes.  Its definitely rare for a reason.  As Luke says above, plenty of people are on a different arc of the cycle altogether.  But it is a cycle.  Everything that goes around, comes around.  Eventually.  

 

Shakyamuni Guatama asked his disciples:

"How long is a Human life?"

None of them could offer the correct answer.

He told them:

"Life is but a breath"

[9th]

We`re all in such different places.  

 

From where I`m standing, the next step isn`t to become selfless -- it`s to become self-ful. 

 

I`m not being overly modest; the vast majority of people need more work integrating the self. 

 

I`d urge the rest of us, myself included, not to get ahead of ourselves.

 

LL 

 

Id (once again) urge the rest of us, you especially, to consider this message:

 

 

 

There was a farmer who grew excellent quality corn. Every year he won the award for the best grown corn. One year a newspaper reporter interviewed him and learned something interesting about how he grew it. The reporter discovered that the farmer shared his seed corn with his neighbors. “How can you afford to share your best seed corn with your neighbors when they are entering corn in competition with yours each year?” the reporter asked.

 

“Why sir,” said the farmer, “Didn’t you know? The wind picks up pollen from the ripening corn and swirls it from field to field. If my neighbors grow inferior corn, cross-pollination will steadily degrade the quality of my corn. If I am to grow good corn, I must help my neighbors grow good corn.”