It`s sad to look at Westerners

[Brian]

True, sponging off Capitalism, is still taking part in it.  Matter of fact its making yourself even more reliant on the system.

That's how socialism works, my friend! It's all great until you run out of someone else's money. The concept of the commune is great but only works as long as everyone voluntarily works as hard as they can and no one minds that someone else's "hard as they can" isn't as hard as their own "hard as they can." Of course, there's still the question of who decides who does what -- I, for instance, am a sand-castle artist rather than a sewer-repair laborer. You?

[Brian]

Another option which requires planning and prior capitalistic success would be to buy a small farm, stock it with enough supplies to get started, and establish a small trust large enough to pay the property taxes for the foreseeable future. At that point, cut all ties with the outside world (it is all "capitalistic") and run your farm in a totally self-sufficient fashion. Wear what you make, eat what you grow, etc.

[Marblehead]

And don't forget your internet connection.

[C T]

That's how socialism works, my friend! It's all great until you run out of someone else's money. The concept of the commune is great but only works as long as everyone voluntarily works as hard as they can and no one minds that someone else's "hard as they can" isn't as hard as their own "hard as they can." Of course, there's still the question of who decides who does what -- I, for instance, am a sand-castle artist rather than a sewer-repair laborer. You?

Any vacancy for a wheel-barrow man by any chance? 

[Brian]

Of course, that's just doing away with "Capitalism" via complete self-sufficiency. Bonus points if you can get others to join you, either "going in on" a single, larger farm or establishing several separate small farms. Be careful, though, especially with the latter -- everyone has to put everything together in one big pile without any system of accounting, and then no one should be paying attention to who puts what in or who takes what out. Wouldn't want trade or merit to corrupt things, you know...

[Brian]

Any vacancy for a wheel-barrow man by any chance?

Oh, I think there HAS to be endless vacancy for everyone, regardless of their contribution or their perceived needs!

 

Do you make wheel-barrows or push them around?

[Brian]

I'm afraid my closed-mindedness suggests some problems already but I'll keep them to myself for now -- wouldn't want my cynicism to harsh the buzz...

[Apech]

Of course, that's just doing away with "Capitalism" via complete self-sufficiency. Bonus points if you can get others to join you, either "going in on" a single, larger farm or establishing several separate small farms. Be careful, though, especially with the latter -- everyone has to put everything together in one big pile without any system of accounting, and then no one should be paying attention to who puts what in or who takes what out. Wouldn't want trade or merit to corrupt things, you know...

 

 

Citizen Brian,

 

You are to report to Tractor Facility 777/23 the turnip production has fallen below acceptable quotas.

[Brian]

Citizen Brian,

 

You are to report to Tractor Facility 777/23 the turnip production has fallen below acceptable quotas.

What the...?!?

 

Where'd that loudspeaker come from???

 

We don't even have electricity yet!

[Apech]

What the...?!?

 

Where'd that loudspeaker come from???

 

We don't even have electricity yet!

 

 

You are being watched ... so relax

[Aetherous]

It's pleasant to look at Westerners.

[Brian]

You are being watched ... so relax

I don't even like turnips. Time to move further into the mountains.

[mvingon]

There's nothing wrong with working for a living. There's nothing wrong with selling ethically produced and sourced products and services, for a fair profit. Agree with Brian: most people want stuff. Not even saying there's anything wrong with scratching an itch, here and there.

 

But... Most stuff is made to break it wear out or go out of fashion within a very few years (planned obsolescence), isn't ethically sourced or produced, and most people don't care, as long as they have bigger, better, faster, shinier, more, more, more. It's sickening.

 

I live a very simple life, and let me tell you, it's more physical and mental labor than 8-5. I'm in a tin hut with no AC, and it's been 90F inside, since February.

 

Most people on disability ruined their bodies working like dogs, in red states, for the unappreciative, both producer and consumer side, and die before they get disability. The max in my state is like $800/mo. Rent in a slum is 50-70% of that, then there's utilities, fuel, auto insurance, no public transportation and food and goods desert. I can name exactly two people I know on disability.

 

I pity those who must live in moldy homes because they have to; I admire those who go off-grid and really rough it. I am blown away by awe, by people who do that, because of their ethics.

[Lois]

I think he is just upset because he isn't making money off his music. So he blames "western civilization."

 

Becoming a successful artist isn't a walk in the forest, it is a heavenly trial: privilege and time aren't enough. 

I have 2 great videos in Russian, where I explain this. The problem is that you will regret the money to translate the text. I am sure about that.

 

 

[C T]

Oh, I think there HAS to be endless vacancy for everyone, regardless of their contribution or their perceived needs!

 

Do you make wheel-barrows or push them around?

It wouldn't be fair to just sit and stare, so i guess i'll give it a push now and again *sighs in advance

[Brian]

It wouldn't be fair to just sit and stare, so i guess i'll give it a push now and again *sighs in advance

Well...

 

You could be a wheelbarrow painter...

[liminal_luke]

Citizen Brian,

 

You are to report to Tractor Facility 777/23 the turnip production has fallen below acceptable quotas.

 

Someone must have fallen off the truck.

[gendao]

Don't strain yourself into being amused.  Sometimes it's easier to just get the message intended to illustrate a point.  You did understand that it wasn't a literal invitation to herd the population of the earth into Texas, didn't you?..   C'mon, admit it.  You are a bright guy. 

Exactly, the point is that it's a (factually) bad example precisely used just to push a point.  THAT IS THE PROBLEM!  Sort of like tobacco "science," reefer madness, etc...determining public policy based on junk science.

 

Whereas, based on actual reality...

A recent Scientific American article claimed that, on average, Americans need 24 acres of supporting land per person.

The argument that the world isn't overpopulated merely because they could theoretically all be squeezed into one large land mass is an utterly fallacious argument

All told, the amount of land space required to support one human life is immensely larger than the amount of physical space occupied by one human body. This is classically called the "ecological footprint" of a human being.

We really do need a LOT of space to meet the demands of food, water, energy, resources, waste processing and so on.

there is a limited "carrying capacity" of the planet

Look, I'm not telling all WEIRDos to live like indigenous natives now...just to stop pretending like we aren't the root ecological problem on this planet.

Edited March 29, 2017 by gendao

[Protector]

I'm going to sound pretty awful but I freaking hate the "primitives"

cue to stop reading lol

 

I hate how a great project needs to be stopped somewhere because some schmucks were living "on the land" for generations. Move, damn it! A dam and an oil line are more important than culture or some crap.Look at this

The way the story is framed, I should be on their side and all. But I can't stop thinking about the future. The future can't happen if all the ancient culture people are taking up space. I hate thinking that a thousand years from now we might still have to deal with this crap just because we still think that the more old something is, more valuable it becomes. 

"Ohhh we lived on this land for generations, and we're going to sit here indefinitely."

or until everyone moves to the city

They want you to care about their culture but I freaking can't. I care way more about technology than this.

And it's such a cliche captain planet villain thinking that it's funny, but that's still how I am

Another funny thing is that back when I was still all spiritual and  stuff, I was still kinda thinking that way

The difference now is that I'm going to college to learn about engineering, and the odds are, I will be kicking them off their land someday myself.

If I'm lucky 

[C T]

Well...

 

You could be a wheelbarrow painter...

Thats quite doable, thanks! Do you think it'd be ok to start with a funky rainb0w-coloured theme or would that be a tad too attractive? 

[Brian]

Thats quite doable, thanks! Do you think it'd be ok to start with a funky rainb0w-coloured theme or would that be a tad too attractive?

Any Colour You Like

[Marblehead]

Yeah, there are about three million to choose from.

[Brian]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?V=W1oaXqBJRRQ

Edited March 29, 2017 by Brian

[gendao]

You know, I think those who believe overpopulation is a myth - mean to say that the planet could support more humans - without a lick of concern for any other lifeforms here.

 

Whereas, those who think it isn't a myth - mean that sure, it could technically support more humans - but not without ravaging and killing off all the rest of the planet in the process...which is entirely irrelevant to the former.

I'm going to sound pretty awful but I freaking hate the "primitives"
cue to stop reading lol
 
I hate how a great project needs to be stopped somewhere because some schmucks were living "on the land" for generations. Move, damn it! A dam and an oil line are more important than culture or some crap.Look at this
 
The way the story is framed, I should be on their side and all. But I can't stop thinking about the future. The future can't happen if all the ancient culture people are taking up space. I hate thinking that a thousand years from now we might still have to deal with this crap just because we still think that the more old something is, more valuable it becomes. 
"Ohhh we lived on this land for generations, and we're going to sit here indefinitely."
or until everyone moves to the city
They want you to care about their culture but I freaking can't. I care way more about technology than this.
And it's such a cliche captain planet villain thinking that it's funny, but that's still how I am
Another funny thing is that back when I was still all spiritual and  stuff, I was still kinda thinking that way
The difference now is that I'm going to college to learn about engineering, and the odds are, I will be kicking them off their land someday myself.
If I'm lucky 

these tribes give us the balance of culture, of knowledge of the world’s last natural environments, traditions, languages. The world can’t be all about progress and material wealth. It must also be about consolidation of what we already have, which is a natural, spiritual, mental, cultural wealth. We’ve kept ourselves busy for many, many generations, believing material wealth was the only way forward. We have to regain that balance. That’s all the book is about - it’s about putting these tribes on a pedestal, to start that discussion.

The majority of them know how significant the natural setting is that they live in, and how pure that is, because they’re the last of their groups. 99 percent of their people have already moved away to the cities, and live in boxes under bridges. Some of them have returned and told them what city life is like, so they are aware.

Then again, I think they still don’t truly understand how important it is. You know, 100 years ago, an American photographer called Edward Curtis photographed the Native Americans. You may know those sepia pictures, of Chief Sitting Bull.
 
He spent 30 years traveling around America, photographing the last Indians. Everybody laughed at him. Everybody said, “This is a waste of time. These people are dirty. They’re covered in leather, and they’ve got feathers in their hair, and they sing silly songs. It’s far more important we get rid of them, or they get rid of their cultures, and we move on.”

One hundred years later, look at America. In my opinion, it’s one of the most culturally impoverished and socially sick places on the planet. They all have the biggest cars, but also the biggest bellies and the biggest guns. That, I would argue, is because they’ve lost their cultural roots. Who am I? Where am I from?
I don’t want us to lose that cultural history on an international scale.

Regarding health, how do the tribes look after themselves? They don’t have access to medicine like we do.
It’s a survival of the fittest. If you’re not healthy when you’re born, you die; as harsh and simple as that. Those who are born healthy, functioning, they live, and they live a healthy life.
A lot of the illnesses we suffer from here are self-inflicted. They’re self-inflicted from food, sugars, salts, all the synthetic aspects. They’re self-inflicted through the lifestyle we lead. We believe we have to live for happiness. None of these people have the term “happiness”, because they don’t worry about the future, or when they’re going to be happy. They just are.

I’m particularly interested in their child rearing practices. Here, everybody talks about routine, about sleep training, about when to give solid foods. In the tribes, did you see any small infants being fed solid food?
No, they’re all fed by the breast. They feed them until they’re 4 or 5 years old.
Really, that old?
Why not? It’s 10 times healthier, coming out of your breast, because it’s clean. It builds their whole immune system. And there’s no structure to it. It’s just when they’re hungry, they eat. There’s none of this, “They should eat, they shouldn’t eat, it’s now bedtime, we’re going to have to wean them off.” All these communities, the best food comes out of your breasts.
So the babies are constantly on the mothers?
Yes, they’re never left alone. If the parents are working, the other brothers and sisters carry the babies. They’re always sleeping between the parents, or the brothers and sisters, and from when the day begins, they’re attached to another human being. Everywhere you go, that is a common denominator. Obviously, in the colder climates, they do that for warmth, but even in the warm climates.
Do the babies then still whine and cry?
Hardly at all, no. There’s always human contact. All their needs are being met. They’re constantly on the boob. They just need the warmth.
And during the night, do they wake a lot, nursing?
You never hear that they’re awake. They nurse all night, so they sleep like my children were brought up, next to their mother. If they’re hungry, they get something. There’s never any process of screaming or yelling.
Do you think this parenting style is possible in our society?
Our first one was attached to me, 24 hours of the day. I had this long wrap sling, and she grew up facing me, and then when she got older, she’d be facing out, and fall asleep. Everywhere I went on the bike, I had her in my sling. She lived in there, for about 3 years; so much so that when you took her out, she would scream, because she wanted the contact. She just came with us. If she fell asleep and we weren’t ready to go to bed, she would stay attached to me or my wife. Come bedtime, we would just put her down and we’d all sleep together.
It depends on how enthusiastic and committed you are as a parent. We live in this world of 1,001 opportunities and distractions. To keep the child away from that requires you to apply yourself as a parent, on a far greater level than most people ever do. Unfortunately, being acknowledged as a mother is not significant anymore. We believe it’s far more important to be somebody, and have a title.
I find women are really conflicted with the pressure to be everything - successful at their career and a great mother. We’re trying so hard to do everything right, which of course is impossible, and then we fail, we get tired, we shout at our kids, then we feel like bad mothers.
Yeah, we’ve made things so hard for ourselves. Also from a physical point of view - we’ve all decided to have kids in our late 20s, 30s, even 40s, 50s, which I think is a disaster. In the tribes, they all have children in their teens. I think there’s nothing better than having a child when your body is as strong, healthy, elastic... and when you are as fearless as you are when you’re in your late teens.
I had my eldest when I was 25. I would have done it 2 or 3 years earlier, if I could have. In fact, we’re encouraging our kids to have kids as young as they feel comfortable.
Really? That’s interesting.
I think physically, they’re going to be stronger. They’re more adaptable. They’re healthier. They need less. They’re happy to take care of the kid, they’re more mobile. They have less expectations, less structure. Come the age of 40, you’ve got kids who have left the house, and then you can go and do other things.
What else have you witnessed on your travels that influenced how you raised your kids?
Many, many things. Interestingly, my wife of 23 years now, she traveled extensively before we met. One thing we experienced, and what I still experience when I go off into the bush, is how everyone sleeps huddled together. Even if you’re a stranger, and especially if it’s cold, you put your hands and your feet in each other’s groins and armpits, to keep warm.

That’s incredible.
How my kids grew up is the polar opposite of how I grew up. I grew up not knowing my parents; at the age of 7, I was sent to a boarding school with Jesuit priests for 10 years. My concept of physicality and nudity and the opposite sex was seriously handicapped, from my youth. Nothing was ever discussed. If it was discussed, you’re going to go to hell, and you’re going to die.
Now here I am, I’ve grown with the kids, in our physicality. We walk around naked when we’re getting dressed in the morning. Nobody bats an eyelid. That all comes from growing up as a unit. I think that gives us a strength that many other families don’t have, so when the shit hits the fan - and it does - the children have a deep sense of self-security and confidence from that.

Seeing my teenagers now, how free they are and how happy they are - it’s harder work as a parent, because there’s more freedom. You’ve got to be on the ball. Each child is different. You have to trust them in their own adventures, have their own disasters, make their own mistakes, otherwise they won’t learn.
My mum understood that, too - that is how she raised me.
I think we dissociate ourselves too much from our children. In the tribes, there isn’t really a separation of child and adult, or old person, or teenager. The children are as important as the old people, but they have different strengths and weaknesses. Everybody works together as a community, as a unit, because you need each other to function and survive.

When I think about how many resources WEIRDos like us gobble up, it really inspires me to really make use of my life and have something to show for it.  Especially something to better not just us, but conditions for all other lifeforms here as well.  Which collectively all have no voice (speech, money, or votes) in human society.

Edited March 29, 2017 by gendao

[Marblehead]

I believe that human over-population of the planet is a serious problem and do state so whenever I get the opportunity.