It`s sad to look at Westerners

[Nungali]

Its sad to look at Russians - check this guy out ;

 

 

 

 

get a shave and haircut - fer gawds sakes ! 

[Apech]

I believe that human over-population of the planet is a serious problem and do state so whenever I get the opportunity.

 

 

 

I guess there's not enough people to listen to such a thing.

[Taomeow]

Just today read a superb article about artificial complexity of solutions we have trained our problem solvers to choose in tackling problems that would be solved much more efficiently by a simple intervention.  We don't train our thinking minds to seek simple solutions, our education is geared toward eliminating the very ability to see them.  One example given was the whole hoopla with the Golden Rice project, genetically modified frankenrice that was supposed to help with worldwide food shortages.  What would really help instead would be a revision of our food production, storage and transportation methods.  85% of food farmed for sale on planet earth is lost due to universally atrocious practices concerning what happens to it next, after it's been harvested.  A simple solution would tackle that.  A "complex" one involves crying "overpopulation" and then depopulating with artificially created famines and GMonsantrocities.

 

Way to go, Malthusian cannibal freaks. 

[gendao]

A simple solution would tackle that.  A "complex" one involves crying "overpopulation" and then depopulating with artificially created famines and GMonsantrocities.

There are no corporate WEIRDos crying overpopulation.  Not even when addressing endemic poverty and strife in domestic ghettos and Africa, with the highest birth rates in the world.  Big litters are the elephant in the room that can never be fingered as a cause.  Because egotistically - humans ourselves can never be the problem.

Despite the fact that population growth reduction in China has been one of the only policies to actually lift the country out of destitute Marxist poverty.

 

Instead, the only problem with population ever officially proclaimed is declining WEIRD birth rates - which stops funding all their financial pyramid schemes that they still sit on top of.

 

Or some might speculate our alien overlords WANT humans to overpopulate and completely terraform this whole planet for them.

 

I am not suggesting any kind of artificial birth control or policies (and certainly not false "fixes" like GMOs) - just to acknowledge the reality that our ecological footprints have on the world.  And to quit pretending that the complete opposite - like dropping birth rates or natural deaths - are a bad thing for the planet.

 

I mean, this kind of fear-mongering is just sooooo ridiculous!  Even if some super apocalypse killed off HALF of all humans tomorrow - that would only knock the global population back to what it was in the 1970s!!!

Edited March 30, 2017 by gendao

[windwalker]

" Big litters are the elephant in the room that can never be fingered as a cause.  Because egotistically - humans ourselves can never be the problem."

 

 

By those who need and use the most resources to continue to have big "litters"

As if it's their right which some might say it is forgetting the rest that have to support it.

 

How can "humans" be the problem when we are part of the earth.  The idea of "problem" is a construct that only "humans" can apply to themselves as some perceive themselves apart from a planet that they live on.. 

 

For those wanting to live in a natural way would not this mean allowing what would naturally happen with organisms that 

can not be sustained by the environments they live in. 

 

Its one thing to say that a certain population uses x or y amount of resources, discounting the fact that much of the "resources" could not be used by those not having the technology to use them, nor develop such technology because of their living conditions.  They don't need it....

 

What they need is for those having the technology to help them sustain a life style that is unsustainable instead of allowing 

what some have said is a natural process to balance itself out. 

[Taomeow]

.

Edited March 30, 2017 by Taomeow

[mvingon]

Its sad to look at Russians - check this guy out ;

 

 

 

 

get a shave and haircut - fer gawds sakes !

 

WTF? Just... No. That was low. You know why the Rasta grew long hair and twisted it? So the imperialist whites would leave them alone. The imperialists dreaded talking to the natty (nasty) locked men. Hence, natty natty dreads.

 

Beyond that, no one died and left you in charge. If you don't like someone's looks, don't look. Personal attacks like that are b.... moves.

 

/rant

[mvingon]

Windwalker, you go from natural to modern technology. Ever lived on a farm? Here's what's natural: rape, bisexuality, multiple births, infanticide by mothers of sick, abnormal, weak offspring, and of the healthy by other males and females. It's the selfish gene. You may read it.

 

You want natural, stop taking synthesized analgesics, antibiotics, BP meds, anything else like that. Breed in your hut or in the bush, birth there, too. No modern, store bought soap, shampoo, razors, bread and slaughter your own meat. I could go on... In the natural world, sickness and disease run their courses.

[Apech]

There are no corporate WEIRDos crying overpopulation.  Not even when addressing endemic poverty and strife in domestic ghettos and Africa, with the highest birth rates in the world.  Big litters are the elephant in the room that can never be fingered as a cause.  Because egotistically - humans ourselves can never be the problem.

 

 

....

 

 

Essentially what we are looking at is high birth rates in areas of high poverty and low income and low birth rates in more prosperous countries.  This has a way of concentrating the problem in that local resources cannot meet demand and the result is starvation, poor health and living conditions.  But this is a chicken and egg effect.  The way to reduce resource stress in those areas where it is critical is to a ) provide good quality education especially to women, b ) provide high standard health care c ) ensure basic public health measures such as clean water and sewage.

 

It has been shown in India that where this is done the birth rate drops naturally without any need for overt population control - people naturally take the option of having fewer children later in life once life expectancy increases and opportunities broaden.  This is after all exactly what has happened in the 'developed' world.  As this happens the average wealth also increases naturally and stable population numbers emerge.

[windwalker]

Windwalker, you go from natural to modern technology. Ever lived on a farm? Here's what's natural: rape, bisexuality, multiple births, infanticide by mothers of sick, abnormal, weak offspring, and of the healthy by other males and females. It's the selfish gene. You may read it.

 

You want natural, stop taking synthesized analgesics, antibiotics, BP meds, anything else like that. Breed in your hut or in the bush, birth there, too. No modern, store bought soap, shampoo, razors, bread and slaughter your own meat. I could go on... In the natural world, sickness and disease run their courses.

 

I think there may be some confusion. My point was what you've pointed out. 

Those talking about natural, like watching it on TV but never seem to understand what living the life means.

 

Modern Tech, undermines the "natural" processes that many seem to embrace in talking about

the "good ol days"   For those who like living with or in what they call "nature"  I would invite them to 

do so.

 

Having been in US military for 20ys I am well aware of what

living on the land means and how to do it.  

Edited March 30, 2017 by windwalker

[windwalker]

"Essentially what we are looking at is high birth rates in areas of high poverty and low income and low birth rates in more prosperous countries.  This has a way of concentrating the problem in that local resources cannot meet demand and the result is starvation, poor health and living conditions.  But this is a chicken and egg effect."

 

 

Would you not say that this effect is "natural"  as a means of insuring the survival of at least some or one of the offspring.

 

In developed countries the time it takes one to acquire the skill sets to survive in them is quite long, much longer then in low tech areas. Hence the birth rate is reduced as more resources "education ect" are made available to the one or few offspring that a family feels it can support.  

 

One might look at the cultures of those countries that are prosperous vs those that are not. 

What is needed is a cultural change, within the cultures themselves.  Not an enabling giving by other cultures that are shown to be successful insuring their own survival.  

Edited March 30, 2017 by windwalker

[AussieTrees]

It is sad to look at?

 

To start with universal health cover and totally free services for every one.

The planets yes us earthlings need to stop all the bullshit rhetoric and decide we are one planet.

 

We promote health,dental,surgery,healing of all sorts,yes billions,for all nations across the planet.

Investing in this way,we create employment,we create cohesion.

 

One day this will have to happen,there so much bickering we all switch off.

The day of oppositional governments is coming to an end,already rendered as a school yard squabble.

 

No matter where you live,there basics required,food,housing,clothing,health,education,work,entertainment,procreate,recycle.

As a citizen of the world,we recognise these needs,we overspend all the better,just cut defence budgets,stop building bombs of all sought,they only kill us,when you are dead matters not that you civilian or otherwise.

 

Don't get me started on my rant.

[Marblehead]

Its sad to look at Russians - check this guy out ;

 

 

 

 

get a shave and haircut - fer gawds sakes ! 

 

I see that all the time.  There are lots of retired Navy people living in my area and most just love letting their head/face hair grow crazy.

[Marblehead]

I guess there's not enough people to listen to such a thing.

 

Oh!, there are enough people, most just aren't listening.

[mvingon]

Windwalker, was definitely confused. My sincere apologies.

 

Thank you for being so gracious about it, and clarifying, for me.

[Apech]

Would you not say that this effect is "natural"  as a means of insuring the survival of at least some or one of the offspring.

 

In developed countries the time it takes one to acquire the skill sets to survive in them is quite long, much longer then in low tech areas. Hence the birth rate is reduced as more resources "education ect" are made available to the one or few offspring that a family feels it can support.  

 

One might look at the cultures of those countries that are prosperous vs those that are not. 

What is needed is a cultural change, within the cultures themselves.  Not an enabling giving by other cultures that are shown to be successful insuring their own survival.  

 

 

 

Sure.  Where I live now two generations ago it was common to have families of 10 - 11 children or more.  This along with much higher levels of infant mortality.  Their labour involved many hands working at agriculture and so whole villages (kids and all) would move on mass to work the land on a seasonal basis.  Children as young as 5 would help in the work -  later schooling was up to 11 and most were sent to work after this with basic primary education.  Technology and the collapse of the agriculture based economy has put an end to this.  At the same time the new generations are now highly educated (for the most) with a few choosing to take up the few remaining agricultural work or migrating to other European countries such as Holland.  Now people have very few children - there is low welfare here and so it costs a fortune to bring up a child.  The middle class women wait till mid/late 30's and often only have one child.  The population is in decline especially in the rural areas.

 

So the previous high birth rate was partly 'insurance' by the adults to have many hands to work the land, partly ignorance of birth control measures, partly to offset poor health conditions and partly just the way in which the economy and thus society was structured.

 

I think its important to remember that this population thing is not just a numbers game - but numbers/quality of life balance.  You could have many more people on earth than we have now and that would be ok if human dignity and freedom was also increasing.  Or you could have a lot less in some post apocalyptical (yeah I know that phrase is self contradictory ) nightmare - would that be better? No.

Edited March 30, 2017 by Apech

[windwalker]

[Nungali]

WTF? Just... No. That was low. You know why the Rasta grew long hair and twisted it? So the imperialist whites would leave them alone. The imperialists dreaded talking to the natty (nasty) locked men. Hence, natty natty dreads.

 

Beyond that, no one died and left you in charge. If you don't like someone's looks, don't look. Personal attacks like that are b.... moves.

 

/rant

 

Chill man .....      the dude needs a shave . 

 

He doesnt like it ... HE can complain .  I been ribbin Lois for yinks, sometimes he pokes back .   You dont think  this topic is a poke ?????? 

 

Its just that I agree with him !   Maybe he look in the mirror and  " Hmmmm , Nungers right ... I could do with a shave ... or at least a trim . " 

 

Who died and  left you as chief mod ? 

[Nungali]

Windwalker, you go from natural to modern technology. Ever lived on a farm? Here's what's natural: rape, bisexuality, multiple births, infanticide by mothers of sick, abnormal, weak offspring, and of the healthy by other males and females. It's the selfish gene. 

 

 Good God Man !   What on earth goes on at your farm !  

 

No people live  like that on my farm, or the ones nearby !  

[Nungali]

I see that all the time.  There are lots of retired Navy people living in my area and most just love letting their head/face hair grow crazy.

 

 

I admit it ... I am an anti- beardy

 

 

 

so  wrong .....   so very wrong  .....  

[Nungali]

Overpopulation ?  

 

Noooooooo ...  

 

I just know I prefer my local beach 

 

 

 than the great tourist ones in Brazil    

 

 

Edited March 31, 2017 by Nungali

[Taomeow]

My walking qigong trail leads me to the beach, where I take a break -- either people watching or meditating or taking a nap, depending on the mood, before heading back.  So, yesterday, people watching.  The closest to me for observation...  OK, here's the picture.

 

A boy of about 15 and a girl of about 10 were throwing a football to each other.  Very cooperatively, but the girl kept dropping the ball more often than not, and I was waiting for the boy to get bored or impatient.  Didn't happen -- they kept at it, calm, friendly, smiling often, laughing occasionally.  I noticed some resemblance and decided they must be brother and sister, mentally issuing kudos to the boy who seemed to have more than the average amount of patience and kindness than one usually sees in a teenager toward a prepubertal sibling of a different gender.  Then a surfer emerged from the ocean and approached them, and was addressed as "dad."  Next, he stepped toward what I now understood (again seeing the resemblance) to be the rest of the family -- another teenage boy, two more prepubertal girls, and mom.  Five kids.  All of them apparently relaxed, with no interpersonal tensions to notice, all of them neither loud nor quiet, just cheerful and calm kids, and a well-groomed SoCal blonde mom and a muscular good-looking dad.  Mom and dad looked as though they started the family young, not the typical SoCal mid-thirties to forties but "the way it used to be" early 20s.  The punch line of the scene?  They were all white people.  White, shades of blond all of them, and apparently fully functional, a family that radiated "life is good" -- for everybody involved.

 

I wonder if anyone would call those well-off, well-behaved, well-adjusted, healthy and happy five kids a "litter" considering they were not a starving bunch in Africa nor South American urchins raised by the street nor Mexican illegals.  Probably.  Probably there's people who would still see their situation as abnormal.  And then there's people who would see what I saw. 

 

It was good to look at "westerners" yesterday on the beach.  I was thinking, all is not lost for us.  We can still bounce back instead of going quietly into the night.  All it takes is for our species to remember that family used to be the only thing that mattered, after the tribe that was the thing that mattered more, and before "me" that mattered less yet felt so much happier -- every second of every day, every day of every year...  It's just that...

 

...it's just that I'm daydreaming again. 

[mvingon]

Who died and  left you as chief mod ?

 

Was waiting for that. Was illin' in the heat of my personal sweatbox in the barrio. Noted.

 

Also had blessed rain and got the temp in here a pleasant 64F. <3

[gendao]

I wonder if anyone would call those well-off, well-behaved, well-adjusted, healthy and happy five kids a "litter" considering they were not a starving bunch in Africa nor South American urchins raised by the street nor Mexican illegals.

A family of 7 American WEIRDos is likely going to have a massive ecological footprint in habitat destruction, resource consumption, and waste generation. Like how many trash bags do you think they are leaving on the curb every week, for instance?

 

Sure, they might appear to be a happy, functional family (great for them!) - but that has little to do with the amount of ecological havoc they may be wreaking. Which is going to be farrrrr greater than a Third World family of 7 - whom all have a higher death rate and far smaller average ecological footprint.

 

You are right that "litter" would be a misnomer, though - as that technically refers to multiple births. Oops...

Edited March 31, 2017 by gendao

[Taomeow]

I don't feel like being talked at.  You set up straw men of your own making pretending they are my thoughts and then bravely strike them down, and this method of conducting a discussion irritates at first but then, very rapidly, bores. 

 

You should have kept the post about the old woman which I was about to 'like' because it contained cool facts separate from the rest which contained uncouth fiction, and I would never have responded to that second part if it wasn't for the appeal of the first -- I thought you were not beyond a fresh inquiry into a stale belief and tried to...

 

well, nevermind what I thought or tried.  Happy trails.