Trans and Taosim

[Orgasmic19]

How can a transgender women relate to the tao and balance energy from within and outer?

 

From my understanding I see some transgender women taking up the tao as sort of a religion. As I pass by certain forums I see a small community of trans-tao women.

 

I am a bit or alot confused?

[mvingon]

A lot. Do you. Let others do them. It doesn't affect you one iota, but in your monkey mind.

[Rocky Lionmouth]

I think the Tao smiles upon those who fight to be themselves and endure many ordeals to protect their nature. Transgender people are among those who really do imo.

[mvingon]

My thoughts: who would choose a sexuality that would get to disowned, persecuted, tortured, killed?

 

I used to be homophobic, xenophobic. It seems millennia ago, but has only been a few decades..

[liminal_luke]

Orgasmic19,

 

First you started a thread on homosexuality and taoism and now this?  Perhaps you`re sincerely confused, but me thinks you`re just trying to stir up trouble.  If you yourself are gay or ambivilent about your gender, please say so.  Then a productive discussion could ensue.  If you are just idly curious -- or worse -- about others, I wouldn`t worry.  I`m sure they will take care of any balance issues on their own.  

[thelerner]

I see Liminals point. 

How about this, you just think and treat trans like any one else and I'm pretty sure your discomfort and questions become irrelevant. 

[Rocky Lionmouth]

However, even if there could be a wish to cause agitation i think it's important and brave to ask questions about homosexuality, transgender, queer etc if one does indeed feel ambivalent or confused, even if only "how should i treat this, what can i expect from others here". Asking the question is a brave also, the asker runs the risk of being stigmatized or yelled at or even worse getting new perspectives on something that's not necessarily so easy for everyone to wrap their head around

And it relates to identity, what kinds of meanings we put into the body-gender-orientation-mind etc etc questions and answers we take for granted. "Who is the man and who is the woman i bed then?" However frustrating and offensive that question is it can be very honest without malignant intent. Sure, there might be a lot of snickering because those who tend to ask such things rarely consider being a woman as good as being a man, especially if that woman is a man... it's very confusing for some.

 

I grew up in a context where the most gracious attitude to gay men was "they are neurological,y dysfunctional and cant help their confused state", lesbians did not exist, crossdressing was disgusting and trans was incomprehensible and aggravating. I never subscribed to those views myself but i had no clue how HBTQ-people lived and felt because it clashed with my idea that identity had an axis around which it rotated around having a gender-coded body that made up ones personality. But what i heard about "other" lifestyles made no sense, assumptions on pedophilia, mental illness, being a broken person, violence, rape etc. It just made no sense.

 

There was not one person with direct experience i could ask until my early 20s when some friends came out to me, they were very patient with my questions and i sadly don't see them anymore but they're a big part of how i see our world and it's inhabitants today.

But there are many many sources to ask and read on the web before one gets into the specifics of gender and identity in taoist contexts... it's a complex topic.

Edited March 29, 2017 by Rocky Lionmouth

[sillybearhappyhoneyeater]

Daoism at a very basic level is just about being natural.

No need to overly complicate things.

[Enishi]

1. Get in touch with your true self via Qigong/Alchemy, more nutrition and such.

 

2. Walk in the Wu Wei and do as your true self directs you. What it directs you to do however is a TOOL, an expedients means, NOT "who you are".

 

Some of the things people identify with like their genitals, who they rub their genitals against and how the physical body attached to said genitals adorns itself are common urban Western obsessions, whether coming from a right-leaning or left-leaning standpoint. In terms of older Taoism, I'd those kinds of shallow details are actually irrelevant. 

Edited March 29, 2017 by Enishi

[silent thunder]

yes, this...

A lot. Do you. Let others do them. It doesn't affect you one iota, but in your monkey mind.

this haiku came to me when I was saturating myself with extraneous monkey mind judging/valuing/bs

i share it with you

 

muddiest waters

left undisturbed by process

rest in clarity

[Kar3n]

yes, this...

this haiku came to me when I was saturating myself with extraneous monkey mind judging/valuing/bs

i share it with you

 

muddiest waters

left undisturbed by process

rest in clarity

Oh, that is wonderful!

Love, love, love it!

Thank you so much for sharing with us.

[Rakiel]

a related question might be what is the consequences of taking (or blocking) certain hormones and its effect on cultivation?

[Rocky Lionmouth]

Now that would be very interesting to hear some first-hand accounts of! Understandable if it's not something one would feel 100% comfortable with outing, but it would be very very interesting to get a glimpse of how a transition can affect cultivation.

 

I'm guessing, far out on a limb, that the hormonal changes, operations, illnesses that occur in anyones lifespan can be significant so how to discern?

 

Otoh:

For me i've only gone through puberty (didnt cultivate before or during so who knows?), surgery, self medication by alcohol and different cycles of mood and neurological meds, they've all had some impact but how they translate is hard do say, in hindsight i seem to have stayed the course and kept on discovering and developing my practices. I'm not equating the above with transitioning of course, it's just hard for me to say how i'm different from other people since i have little experience of their cultivational history and how they view it.

 

Rant rant, i'm going to stop here for a while now, sorry if i go off on tangents...

Edited April 1, 2017 by Rocky Lionmouth

[Fa Xin]

i believe achieving 'balance' is a highly personal thing... my balance is not your balance.

for a transgender person, it may be the change that achieves that balance/happiness/harmony.

[silent thunder]

i believe achieving 'balance' is a highly personal thing... my balance is not your balance.

for a transgender person, it may be the change that achieves that balance/happiness/harmony.

yup... another big +1 from me on this one too.

[Maddie]

On 3/30/2017 at 12:00 PM, Rakiel said:

a related question might be what is the consequences of taking (or blocking) certain hormones and its effect on cultivation?

 

That is a good question.

[Vajra Fist]

19 hours ago, Maddie said:

 

That is a good question.

 

Yeah it's an interesting one, personally something I've been considering a lot lately.

 

I'm on testosterone replacement therapy at the moment. I lost a bollock a few years back from cancer and I've had androgen deficiency since.

 

I've had reassurances from reputable internal arts teachers that it won't pose a problem, even at the later stages of neigong. But I think the question would always bother me if I took that path.

 

The purpose of working with the body's subtle energies is to bring things into balance. The hormonal system is a major part of that.

 

But injecting synthetic hormones doesn't produce the exact same effect in the body as natural production, should your nuts be working properly. For one, your testosterone levels are high across the entire day, rather than rising and falling in cycles like a normal person's do.

 

I'm not sure how a sophisticated system like neidan would work with that major external influence. 

 

But then, how would it work if your body was damaged, and couldn't produce naturally sufficient levels of hormone? Surely that would be as much of an aberration. 

 

Also, what about stimulants like caffeine, or depressants like ibuprofen, or a diet insufficient in protein or other micronutrients. 

 

Internal arts are hugely complex. It's like trying to put together a sophisticated machine in the dark - you can't see all the parts or how they go together exactly. You need a teacher to guide you.

 

Personally, I've drifted away from Chinese systems and more toward Indic practices.

 

Meditation seems like something that any body can do, and insight doesn't depend on having a perfectly attuned body.

 

Also hatha yoga - it's much less subtle, and there's less of a risk of making a mess internally. But is equally supportive of meditation.

 

Sorry I diverged a bit, not talking specifically about transgender. I have no views on that, just sharing my thoughts on hormone treatment specifically and internal work.

[Maddie]

26 minutes ago, Vajra Fist said:

 

Yeah it's an interesting one, personally something I've been considering a lot lately.

 

I'm on testosterone replacement therapy at the moment. I lost a bollock a few years back from cancer and I've had androgen deficiency since.

 

I've had reassurances from reputable internal arts teachers that it won't pose a problem, even at the later stages of neigong. But I think the question would always bother me if I took that path.

 

The purpose of working with the body's subtle energies is to bring things into balance. The hormonal system is a major part of that.

 

But injecting synthetic hormones doesn't produce the exact same effect in the body as natural production, should your nuts be working properly. For one, your testosterone levels are high across the entire day, rather than rising and falling in cycles like a normal person's do.

 

I'm not sure how a sophisticated system like neidan would work with that major external influence. 

 

But then, how would it work if your body was damaged, and couldn't produce naturally sufficient levels of hormone? Surely that would be as much of an aberration. 

 

Also, what about stimulants like caffeine, or depressants like ibuprofen, or a diet insufficient in protein or other micronutrients. 

 

Internal arts are hugely complex. It's like trying to put together a sophisticated machine in the dark - you can't see all the parts or how they go together exactly. You need a teacher to guide you.

 

Personally, I've drifted away from Chinese systems and more toward Indic practices.

 

Meditation seems like something that any body can do, and insight doesn't depend on having a perfectly attuned body.

 

Also hatha yoga - it's much less subtle, and there's less of a risk of making a mess internally. But is equally supportive of meditation.

 

Sorry I diverged a bit, not talking specifically about transgender. I have no views on that, just sharing my thoughts on hormone treatment specifically and internal work.

 

No thanks for sharing. I find the Chinese energetic systems complicated as well. But I'm also on hormone replacement therapy and I wonder what effect that has as well.

[liminal_luke]

None of us are balanced, at least not past a certain age, and I think the best we can do is come to peace with our insufficiencies and imperfections.  Buddha Nature doesn't slip away just because our gall bladders are missing, our knees are titanium, and our testosterone is out of highschool wrestler range.  At least I hope not.  Otherwise, they'll be real trouble.

Edited February 1, 2023 by liminal_luke

[Maddie]

1 hour ago, liminal_luke said:

None of us are balanced, at least not past a certain age, and I think the best we can do is come to peace with our insufficiencies and imperfections.  Buddha Nature doesn't slip away just because our gall bladders are missing, our knees are titanium, and our testosterone is out of highschool wrestler range.  At least I hope not.  Otherwise, they'll be real trouble.

 

I certainly hope my testosterone's not at a high school wrestler range or I would think that my HRT is not working very well LOL.

[Indiken]

10 hours ago, liminal_luke said:

None of us are balanced, at least not past a certain age, and I think the best we can do is come to peace with our insufficiencies and imperfections.  Buddha Nature doesn't slip away just because our gall bladders are missing, our knees are titanium, and our testosterone is out of highschool wrestler range.  At least I hope not.  Otherwise, they'll be real trouble.

 

My opinion,

 

Best is based on knowledge, if you have not required knowledge what is best, then best is personal preference. Another personal preference may be to solve imperfections. 

 

Also, for me being physically unhealthy, having impropriate social status is hindrance to behaving like my morality ideas require.

 

[Maddie]

1 hour ago, Indiken said:

 

My opinion,

 

Best is based on knowledge, if you have not required knowledge what is best, then best is personal preference. Another personal preference may be to solve imperfections. 

 

Also, for me being physically unhealthy, having impropriate social status is hindrance to behaving like my morality ideas require.

 

 

Sorry but that seems a bit the vague and I'm not sure what you're talking about.

[Indiken]

12 minutes ago, Maddie said:

 

Sorry but that seems a bit the vague and I'm not sure what you're talking about.

 

I fear to give out too much by being specific 

[Maddie]

17 minutes ago, Indiken said:

 

I fear to give out too much by being specific 

 

Then mission accomplished LOL 

[Indiken]

6 minutes ago, Maddie said:

 

Then mission accomplished LOL 

 

The thing is, it is