Trans and Taosim

[Maddie]

9 minutes ago, Indiken said:

 

The thing is, it is 

 

Still don't know what you're talking about but of course your private life is your private life 😌

[Nahfets]

Interesting debate. 

I don't agree with everything he says but here I believe Jordan Peterson is right when he pointed out that the Western powers, display narcisistic tendencies when stearing the debate towards gay/LBGT rights only and acting like they suddenly cares about minorities and rights. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tv_d_bBfjnw&list=LL&index=22

 

The Vatican did the same thing in Southamerica after conquering most of the continent through subtle religious colonialism.

"You can have your shamandresses and dances ONE time each year, (carneval) and the rest of the time it's done for with all that nativeness and integral thinking about nature. 

Today they attempt the same thing with pride Week/Month etc. "You can have you freedom, pleassures and right of expression for ONE Week/Month each Year, but then it's done with all that free speech, freedom of thinking and actual intellectual discourse about how to stop the violence. 

 

Don't get me wrong I'm all for trans-rights and all that but I'm not very trustive of the people stearing the debate towards this issue that only deals with a select few less than 1 procent around here at least, while ignoring still the horrific things going on to all the others as well as the rest of the World often perpetuated by said same Western nations.

But then they sort of claim that this is the war against ignorance because they then get a edge on other nations that doesn't have said values. 

 

In this regard there is a lot of powerdynamics in this debate I believe few are even aware of but as I mentioned I'm not against transpeople in any way, I'm more about realizing who's actually diverting attention here,  just my 2 cents. 

[Maddie]

52 minutes ago, Nahfets said:

Interesting debate. 

I don't agree with everything he says but here I believe Jordan Peterson is right when he pointed out that the Western powers, display narcisistic tendencies when stearing the debate towards gay/LBGT rights only and acting like they suddenly cares about minorities and rights. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tv_d_bBfjnw&list=LL&index=22

 

The Vatican did the same thing in Southamerica after conquering most of the continent through subtle religious colonialism.

"You can have your shamandresses and dances ONE time each year, (carneval) and the rest of the time it's done for with all that nativeness and integral thinking about nature. 

Today they attempt the same thing with pride Week/Month etc. "You can have you freedom, pleassures and right of expression for ONE Week/Month each Year, but then it's done with all that free speech, freedom of thinking and actual intellectual discourse about how to stop the violence. 

 

Don't get me wrong I'm all for trans-rights and all that but I'm not very trustive of the people stearing the debate towards this issue that only deals with a select few less than 1 procent around here at least, while ignoring still the horrific things going on to all the others as well as the rest of the World often perpetuated by said same Western nations.

But then they sort of claim that this is the war against ignorance because they then get a edge on other nations that doesn't have said values. 

 

In this regard there is a lot of powerdynamics in this debate I believe few are even aware of but as I mentioned I'm not against transpeople in any way, I'm more about realizing who's actually diverting attention here,  just my 2 cents. 

 

Well that's quite the topic shift. 

[Nahfets]

1 minute ago, Maddie said:

 

Well that's quite the topic shift. 

Perhaps I wen't a little overboard, but I meant to show why I believe there's a group of trans-people who find refuge in the wise simplicity of Daoism. The underlying conflictual spaces that seem to permeate this debate only seem to distance them further from actual healing is my guess. So I wanted to elaborate the reasons and show my understanding for exactly why many in the community don't like this whole pride-washing of politics and coorperations etc. (A different kind of green-washing)

[Maddie]

28 minutes ago, Nahfets said:

Perhaps I wen't a little overboard, but I meant to show why I believe there's a group of trans-people who find refuge in the wise simplicity of Daoism. The underlying conflictual spaces that seem to permeate this debate only seem to distance them further from actual healing is my guess. So I wanted to elaborate the reasons and show my understanding for exactly why many in the community don't like this whole pride-washing of politics and coorperations etc. (A different kind of green-washing)

 

Okay I think I understand the point you're trying to make.

[Maddie]

1 hour ago, Nahfets said:

Perhaps I wen't a little overboard, but I meant to show why I believe there's a group of trans-people who find refuge in the wise simplicity of Daoism. The underlying conflictual spaces that seem to permeate this debate only seem to distance them further from actual healing is my guess. So I wanted to elaborate the reasons and show my understanding for exactly why many in the community don't like this whole pride-washing of politics and coorperations etc. (A different kind of green-washing)

 

I was just curious in this thread and in the energetic aspects since I'm trans.

[liminal_luke]

Just as I side note...

 

I read yesterday about a hockey team that were all supposed to wear pride jerseys but didn't.  Anyway, the weird thing to me was that anybody would ever mandate a pride jersey.  I'm gay and am all for gay pride, but shouldn't it be something freely expressed and not some sort of order from above?  The point of all this LGBT stuff is that people get to be who they are.  I don't need anybody to wrap theselves in a rainbow flag on my account.

[Maddie]

7 minutes ago, liminal_luke said:

Just as I side note...

 

I read yesterday about a hockey team that were all supposed to wear pride jerseys but didn't.  Anyway, the weird thing to me was that anybody would ever mandate a pride jersey.  I'm gay and am all for gay pride, but shouldn't it be something freely expressed and not some sort of order from above?  The point of all this LGBT stuff is that people get to be who they are.  I don't need anybody to wrap theselves in a rainbow flag on my account.

 

Totally agree. Otherwise it's like when my dad used to force me to apologize to my mom when I was a kid and I would say it but I didn't mean it lol.

Edited February 1, 2023 by Maddie

[Nahfets]

37 minutes ago, Maddie said:

 

Totally agree. Otherwise it's like when my dad used to force me to apologize to my mom when I was a kid and I would say it but I didn't mean it lol.

To some degree yes, but I also think it's more of a sign of people knowing about the powerdynamics beneath this and not supporting it. Usually these people are not homo-or transphobic at all but they do get the sense that this is being pushed to stifle their opinions on other matters as well as for the shady powers to divert attention and hide behind fake sympathy. Many get the sense that they're weaponizing tolerance which is kind of the opposite of what someone with compassion would do. 

 

To go back to the example before it's like seing the pope dressed like a native and talking about respecting and preserving cultures all the while they're killing all the tribes, appropriating their medicines and stifling their free speech. 

 

Here it's just the governments and coorperations who does this in the name of tolerance while they create a dynamic of supressing opinions and actual questions as to how we stop the systemic violence towards minority-groups. 

 

It creates more hate on both sides of the line, and only brings suffering to the people. Suffering that should have gone to apply preassure on governments and coorperations as to do actual changing of the ways we act towards minorities be it in our own country or abroad where the West engages in endless wars. 

 

[Maddie]

7 minutes ago, Nahfets said:

To some degree yes, but I also think it's more of a sign of people knowing about the powerdynamics beneath this and not supporting it. Usually these people are not homo-or transphobic at all but they do get the sense that this is being pushed to stifle their opinions on other matters as well as for the shady powers to divert attention and hide behind fake sympathy. Many get the sense that they're weaponizing tolerance which is kind of the opposite of what someone with compassion would do. 

 

To go back to the example before it's like seing the pope dressed like a native and talking about respecting and preserving cultures all the while they're killing all the tribes, appropriating their medicines and stifling their free speech. 

 

Here it's just the governments and coorperations who does this in the name of tolerance while they create a dynamic of supressing opinions and actual questions as to how we stop the systemic violence towards minority-groups. 

 

It creates more hate on both sides of the line, and only brings suffering to the people. Suffering that should have gone to apply preassure on governments and coorperations as to do actual changing of the ways we act towards minorities be it in our own country or abroad where the West engages in endless wars. 

 

 

I'm trying but I think I have a hard time following your meeting. Could you give a more specific example?

[Nahfets]

16 minutes ago, Maddie said:

 

I'm trying but I think I have a hard time following your meeting. Could you give a more specific example?

 

It is a political move that makes sure the population stays divided instead of applying pressure on the rulers at be. They pride themselves with borrowed/stolen feathers of tolerance while their objective is really about turning people against eachother so no real social movements will spout. Social movements that otherwise try to end the systemic violence towards minorities through poverty traps, or wars on nations due to oil and geopolitics. 

They did the same in Southamerica to stifle first nation rioting and now they're doing it again to divert attention and divide the public and try to dominate what constitutes tolerance and freedom in the mind of the next generation.

I sincerely feel sorry for the people who's issue has been highjacked by these people for their dirty games this should not be allowed in any way is sort of my point and clearly it's working to manifest the dichotomy of American politics in the minds of youth all around the world at the moment who yell at eachother instead of mobilize their efforts to reform the system. 

 

We're seing these meassures because they had expectations that riots will form if they don't manipulate this group:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4SIqLAR5M08

 

Edited February 1, 2023 by Nahfets

[liminal_luke]

I agree, Nahfets.  At least I think I do.

 

These days lots of people are furious.  While there are certainly good reasons to be outraged, much of this anger is manufactured.  To take another hotbutton issue, consider racism.  Some say that if you're not actively fighting against racism you're racist.  I disagree.  Lots of nonracists would never think to attend a Black Lives Matter protest, for instance.  They're not prejudiced but racial issues aren't at the center of their lives.  Hey, nobody can do everything.  Some of us fight racial injustice, some practice tai chi, some bake french pastry.  In a similar vein, I don't demand that everybody devote themselves to gay advocacy.  If you see me holding hands with my boyfriend on the street and refrain from shouting homophobic slurs, well, high fives to you -- that's good enough for me.

 

And so we divide ourselves up into easily controlled factions.  If you're not a sufficiently ardent supporter of my pet cause you're the enemy -- or so we're led to believe.  To me this is the opposite of pluralism.  It's the opposite of diversity and the end of freedom.  

Edited February 1, 2023 by liminal_luke

[Nahfets]

.

Edited February 1, 2023 by Nahfets
Double posted

[Nahfets]

29 minutes ago, liminal_luke said:

And so we divide ourselves up into easily controlled factions.  If you're not a sufficiently ardent supporter of my pet cause you're the enemy -- or so we're led to believe.  To me this is the opposite of pluralism.  It's the opposite of diversity and the end of freedom.  

 

This is very well put.

 

And exactly the black rights movement has too been exploited to the same means as to keep the divide and maintain status quo. Look at what kind of hiphop music is pushed now a days, materilistic and sexualized content which only become shown in the statistics as to who buys more useless crap and still feels like shit. You guessed it black youths. 

Manufacturing anger is a good way of putting it as people are guided to keep the smokescreen up for these people to hide their dealings under as well as keep perpetuating the surpressing of vulnerable groups. Often themselves

[Nahfets]

This is sorta where we're at, and yet told to stop worrying about it. 

 

 

[Maddie]

31 minutes ago, Nahfets said:

This is sorta where we're at, and yet told to stop worrying about it. 

 

 

 

Does she think she's feeding birds?

[liminal_luke]

@Maddie

 

I'm curious if you have an opinion about "trans inclusive language" that substitutes gender neutral nouns like "people" in phrases where previously writers would of said men or women.  For instance, it's now common practice in some circles to say pregnant people rather than pregnant women.  Or people who menstruate, people with prostates, etc.  Do you feel it's important to use such phrases as a way of acknowledging the existence of trans people?  

 

I'll admit that I'm put off by such locutions myself.  I like to think that I can support trans people's identities while continuing to believe that getting pregnant is a uniquely feminine experience.  What say you?  This is a contentious topic and not one I want to debate, so I promise not to argue the point if you disagree with me.  If you prefer not to answer, I totally understand.

[Maddie]

2 minutes ago, liminal_luke said:

@Maddie

getting pregnant is a uniquely feminine experience. 

 

Yes totally. 

[Tianzun]

I have heard people describe transitioning to your true gender as a way to acheive ziran. Also I can understand that you may see more trans daoist people because many people (especially groups oppressed by __some__ people belonging to abrahamic religions) would naturally start using reason over faith to determine philosophy, and daoism is very philosophical.

[Maddie]

On 2/9/2023 at 7:28 PM, Tianzun said:

I have heard people describe transitioning to your true gender as a way to acheive ziran. Also I can understand that you may see more trans daoist people because many people (especially groups oppressed by __some__ people belonging to abrahamic religions) would naturally start using reason over faith to determine philosophy, and daoism is very philosophical.

 

Ziran?

[Cobie]

20 hours ago, Maddie said:

Ziran?

自然 zi4 ran2 

 

1 hour ago, ChiDragon said:

… ziren(自然) … 'natural' or "let nature take its course." …

 

 

Edited February 13, 2023 by Cobie

[ChiDragon]

20 hours ago, Maddie said:

 

Ziran?

Yes, Ziran(自然). Sorry！My mistake.

[Maddie]

29 minutes ago, ChiDragon said:

Yes, Ziran(自然). Sorry！My mistake.

 

So the idea is let nature take its course? Interesting.

[ChiDragon]

19 minutes ago, Maddie said:

 

So the idea is let nature take its course? Interesting.

 

What is more interesting is that:

Laozi wants to leave nature alone.

Zhuangzi wants nautre to leave him alone. Hence, both want to "let nature take its course."

 

[Indiken]

Post content removed due to being against forum rules regarding homophobia and transphobia.

Edited February 15, 2023 by Indiken