Question about stages in Neidan

[Aletheia]

The day I activated the LDT I put some heat in tailbone and put it into my head from there and it felt like the crown of my head had been flooded and when I opened my eyes it was like a waking dream. Then for 6 hours my pelvic region got hotter and hotter. During that time I did the MCO and each point felt warm when I put qi there. The only two points I didn't feel anything were the crown of my head and the forehead.

 

So feeling heat in my forehead the other day was the first time that had happened for me and it's not obvious I can even move the energy around the MCO now the way I did on that first day because I've only been breathing wherever the heat has gone since that time.

Edited April 6, 2017 by Aletheia

[Aletheia]

Most of what I'm doing doesn't come from books, I'm just doing what feels right for me and anyone who thinks I'm some sort of deviant can take a hike for all I care!

[allinone]

you lack something crucial. That the things you see are unreal, wrong things. Like a drunk person.

 

you won't get it right with your mind abilities, its done by cultivating being sober and clear. You need to stop "drinking" and get sober and wait till the effects are circled out and gone. Also it sa long wait because you need to wait till you start yearning for drinking again, so from that point you can start cultivate purity and true mind.

 

but even that isn't real pure mind, it will put you through bad states, these are fire of purification from not doing cheats again.

Edited April 6, 2017 by allinone

[Aletheia]

Well I've never been into drinking at all and drugs I might take only a few times a year and I always regret it. The only drugs I'd take now are mushrooms.

 

I'm just frustrated that it's difficult to get the right guidance. But I'm sure there's nothing new about that and everyone here has that problem anyway. So my last comment wasn't really directed at anyone in particular just the circumstances of the situation and the general sickness that pervades contemporary society as such.

 

I need to start taking meditation more seriously I think.

Edited April 6, 2017 by Aletheia

[allinone]

you don't get it at all..you don't have to do anything. Meditation is getting you "drunk", any type of meditation, gigong and neidan etc are done wrongly because these things are your vodka.

 

edit: you can do right thing while being intoxicated. So figure out what is the right thing in evey possible action and moment and awerenss type etc amongst all things and conditions..

 

even Buddha can't make other person enlightened..tho he could make the world free of evil and wrong thinking, but if he leaves world starts to downgrade again.

Edited April 6, 2017 by allinone

[Aletheia]

Meditation most definitely is not getting me drunk. I've noticed everywhere I go people are happier too. So I must be doing something right.

 

Really from my own experience I'd say meditation helps purify negative emotions, amplify the positive and clear the mind of disorganised thinking patterns. And It's most definitely not something done by a disembodied head severed from the body or worldly environments and other people.

Edited April 6, 2017 by Aletheia

[allinone]

Meditation most definitely is not getting me drunk. I've noticed everywhere I go people are happier too. So I must be doing something right.

 

Really from my own experience I'd say meditation helps purify negative emotions, amplify the positive and clear the mind of disorganised thinking patterns. And It's most definitely not something done by a disembodied head severed from the body or worldly environments and other people.

 

yeah meditation must make you look like a clown.

[allinone]

Be glad you are behind internet. If to make this same conversation in real life then it leads to physical punches.

 

That means, there are people who won't see your happiness but see it as a insult and threat, intimidation..let alone animals, dogs when you violate their space even eyesight of you can cause trouble.

Edited April 6, 2017 by allinone

[Brian]

Well I've never been into drinking at all and drugs I might take only a few times a year and I always regret it. The only drugs I'd take now are mushrooms.

 

I'm just frustrated that it's difficult to get the right guidance. But I'm sure there's nothing new about that and everyone here has that problem anyway. So my last comment wasn't really directed at anyone in particular just the circumstances of the situation and the general sickness that pervades contemporary society as such.

 

I need to start taking meditation more seriously I think.

You've gotten "the right guidance" repeatedly from different people in several threads. You reject it.

 

<shrug>

 

Your cup is full.

[Aletheia]

yeah meditation must make you look like a clown.

allinone please don't reply to anything I write again. You're a complete fool and a waste of time. I've read your comments in other threads and all you do is continuously go around announcing to world that you're a complete moron. If I can see that I'm not sure what the better practitioners think after they're subjected to your dross.

 

Let's wait and see how many great philosophers come and tell me I've misread your abilities and stick up for you here...

 

The only person who's going to stick up for you is someone joyriding their base emotions. No one serious that's for sure. Unfortunately for you!

Edited April 6, 2017 by Aletheia

[dwai]

One of my teachers is often referred to as 'the healer's healer'. He's known for affecting healing in hopeless conditions and often has healers seek him out when they are under the very influence you speak of 'cross contamination'. Folks fly from around the world to have sessions with him.

 

He does not refer to those who come to him as patients... they are students and he is not healing them, he is teaching them and aiding them in returning to vitality and health. They are not subordinate, he is not above. He is assisting where he can, with what he has available to him... it is a relationship, not a transaction.

 

He does not consider himself the source of the healing at all. He is a conduit.

 

I think this paradigm is of paramount importance when it comes to energetic healing and treatment.

 

It is so easy to fall into the healer trap that I am the power and the source... it's often present in group work and retreat settings. Someone once referred to it as "I" healing. "I walked into the room and I saw that there was a brown spot in the orange of her aura and I cleansed it". With that ownership comes possession of all that comes with it... much of it potentially not beneficial.

 

When we operate from this point of view, we are mentally projecting and taking ownership and responsibility of the energetic flow and the transaction. Seems to me that this may well be a main avenue of cross flow and assimilation of energy, rather than allowance for it and release of it.

 

I was deeply affected by your story of healing. But my second thought was, while you may have been a catalyst for the event, you were not the source, nor the power, but a focus and conduit. You mentioned that there were friends in the room when you arrived. When you entered there was already an energetic matrix of car and love, the combination of all the connected friends present and that shifted with your arrival.

 

When you arrived and had the instinct and intention arose to act... to me this exemplifies your sensitivity and awareness of an opportunity to catalyze the matrix and focus the existant present conditions with the new potential coupled with the personal willingness to act.

 

The teacher I mentioned above after 50 years of healing and practice... still practices himself daily, even his most basic beginner form. And he also prepares the healing space where he will 'teach others vitality' before engaging in any healing. The translator that works with him, told me that in the seven years he's known him, teacher has never been sick, low energy, or under the weather. He works every day of the week, either teaching or healing and is nearing 86 now with no signs of slowing.

 

Early on in my experiences with energy and internal work in my twenties... I viewed myself as a bucket. I sometimes was empty and other times full. When empty, I would look for a place to assign blame "that person sucked out my energy.. they're a vampire!" And while I quite accept the eight reservoirs are real and do house and hold energy. There is certainty that energy is always moving and flowing and at some point, my awareness shifted.

 

I no longer see myself as a bucket that is empty or full, rather, I am a series of channels and meridians that energy is constantly flowing through, never hoarding. What I used to feel as being an empty bucket, I now perceive as my channels are constricted. When they open up again, I do not feel full, I feel the full flow.

 

Anyway, it's really heartening to hear your experience and your dedication to developing your abilities, sensitivities and awareness. Deep blessings mate!

Word!

 

This is what my teachers have told me too. Lower level stuff is to consider the limited Self the source of power (healing or even martial arts). These people drain themselves.

 

Higher level stuff is to let the Dao act through you. Become a conduit and then you will never need to worry about draining, cross contamination etc.

 

EDIT: in order to make that happen, you have to get out of the way. Give up the sense of being the mind-body self completely. If the Buddhist non-self concept works, use that. If your ego is the one making decisions then you can't work with the pre-heaven stuff and let the Dao manifest through your mind-body.

Edited April 6, 2017 by dwai

[Aletheia]

You've gotten "the right guidance" repeatedly from different people in several threads. You reject it.

 

<shrug>

 

Your cup is full

 

 

Last time I checked you were thanking opendao's posts and then running away. So intuitively I think you've got a hidden agenda going on and some personal problems. Now you resurface with this immature attitude. I'm not going to be taking advice from you without careful consideration first. Even though you've said some helpful things in other threads which I'm grateful for.

[Aletheia]

Most likely I'll delete my password and just stick to reading Drew's idiot guide in future.

 

Just to be clear -- I'm not a healer, I'm not planning on being a healer, I don't have a need to want to heal the world and I'm not making claims of wanting to be a healer. If I ever heal anyone again it will only be my direct family and nothing more.

 

I'm really not interested in getting involved with other people's problems and would rather not if truth be told. Good luck to them is what I say just don't get me tangled up with it. Perhaps they deserve what they got for all I know and trying to help is ill advised. Right now I want to build up the length of my meditation and want to get up to 7 days without food and water!

[Brian]

Most likely I'll delete my password and just stick to reading Drew's idiot guide in future.

 

Just to be clear -- I'm not a healer, I'm not planning on being a healer, I don't have a need to want to heal the world and I'm not making claims of wanting to be a healer. If I ever heal anyone again it will only be my direct family and nothing more.

 

I'm really not interested in getting involved with other people's problems and would rather not if truth be told. Good luck to them is what I say just don't get me tangled up with it. Perhaps they deserve what they got for all I know and trying to help is ill advised. Right now I want to build up the length of my meditation and want to get up to 7 days without food and water!

I wish you success in your journey!

[Aletheia]

I wish you success in your journey!

Hopefully that comment boasted your immature ego because all I'm getting from it is emotionally driven spite and ill will. Something you'll have to deal with in your own time because it's not happening with mine tbh.

[Aletheia]

I wish you success in your journey!

And it's not like I didn't ask you to explain your reasoning in an earlier comment. Rather than that you just return with this level of comment. I have no problems admitting I've made mistakes, more than likely I have. What I have a problem with are comments like the above. AND WHY SHOULDN'T I?

 

It's really not helpful and I don't see why I ought to be tap dancing around the issue with a big fake smile on my face pretending to be thankful to your contribution to this thread.

[Brian]

Hopefully that comment boasted your immature ego because all I'm getting from it is emotionally driven spite and ill will. Something you'll have to deal with in your own time because it's not happening with mine tbh.

No, in fact, it was just a sincere wish. I hope you find what you seek through meditation and I hope you are successful in your quest for a weeklong complete fast. I also hope, if you leave this forum, that you return at some point in the future to revisit these threads and the responses you have received from various people here -- I think you will find in hindsight that they have been kinder and more helpful than you currently perceive.

[Aletheia]

Brain the whole thread contains comments from people taking to me about non-dualism and subject-object relations. Something I'm more than familiar with and it's one of the reasons I'm so fond of Drew because he sees right through the facade, besides his reaching high levels in neidan. Really I think the two can not be separated most likely. Do you know how many academic philosophers are able to think past Cartesian dualism never mind Plato? Pretty much zero.

 

I know people have good intentions here, but you know where that leads? I'm not interested in good intentions and I'm certainly not interested with good intentions packed full with emotional baggage. Honestly I have no hard feelings for anyone here. I'm already in a bad mood for wasting my time going back to my friend's house and feeling unwell for it. Yeah that's my own fault and hopefully I'll learn something from it.

 

But, concerning the topic of this thread I've received no help other than from Drew's comment on his blog. So what should I conclude from that?

Edited April 6, 2017 by Aletheia

[Brian]

And it's not like I didn't ask you to explain your reasoning in an earlier comment. Rather than that you just return with this level of comment. I have no problems admitting I've made mistakes, more than likely I have. What I have a problem with are comments like the above. AND WHY SHOULDN'T I?

 

It's really not helpful and I don't see why I ought to be tap dancing around the issue with a big fake smile on my face pretending to be thankful to your contribution to this thread.

^^^You didn't, actually. I just went back through and read all of our previous exchanges -- several in your "First attempt at healing!" thread and then again in your "Looking for Advice on a Daily Practice" thread. Unless you asked for me to explain my reasoning on some point without actually quoting me (in which case I wouldn't have gotten a notification and may simply have overlooked it), I don't see where you asked for information from me which I didn't attempt to give you. I provided positive feedback to you early on, recommended you create a thread specifically about seeking a personal practice, and encouraged you to try to disengage the "rational mind" (which you didn't take seriously, apparently). I suggested a particular system (which I no longer think would be a good fit for you in your current situation but that's irrelevant) and I inquired about your geographic location because I wanted to reach out to some folks about potentially considering you as a student.

 

Perhaps you have me confused with someone else?

[Starjumper]

'Doin' the MCO and neidan are mutually exclusive.  Neidan is a spiritual practice (non fundamentalist) while doing  the MCO is fundamentalist BS.  I hope that clears things up.

 

This forum needs a vomit emoticon.

Edited April 6, 2017 by Starjumper

[Starjumper]

But, concerning the topic of this thread I've received no help other than from Drew's comment on his blog. So what should I conclude from that?

 

 

You should conclude that your ego is interfering with you comprehension, conclude that you are not open too much to receive help, conclude that the student is not ready.

Edited April 6, 2017 by Starjumper

[Aletheia]

'Doin' the MCO and neidan are mutually exclusive.  Neidan is a spiritual practice (non fundamentalist) while doing  the MCO is fundamentalist BS.  I hope that clears things up.

 

This forum needs a vomit emoticon.

I did the MCO on the day I activated the LDT and all the only places I didn't feel anything were the top of the head and the 3rd eye. I wrote about that in the first thread I stated.

 

Anyway if you're so affected by reading comments on a forum that it makes you want to vomit you're wasting your time at that hermitage of yours. Most likely you have an ejaculation problem too. So my advice to you is CUT IT OUT AND START GETTING SERIOUS and get off the internet as well if you don't understand its inner workings which you obviously do not.

 

Honestly you just let the cat out of the bag that you're still playing about with your base emotions my friend. Good luck to you!

 

 

 

You should conclude that your ego is interfering with you comprehension, conclude that you are not open too much to receive help, the student is not ready.

 

I'm way past thinking with the ego that's why I can "project qi"

 

This question was framed by me in such a way to see whether one of "the world's leading philosophers" could think outside the ego (which I knew he couldn't).

 

EDIT: actually I edited it out. I'd rather not have you guys following me around the internet. Not that that account is active. It's not my main account and I'll probably deleted that account too now I've put it on here anyway.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Chalmers

 

So you can pretend otherwise if you like, it's not my concern. Maybe you'd like to answer the question I posed...

Edited April 6, 2017 by Aletheia

[Aletheia]

^^^You didn't, actually. I just went back through and read all of our previous exchanges -- several in your "First attempt at healing!" thread and then again in your "Looking for Advice on a Daily Practice" thread. Unless you asked for me to explain my reasoning on some point without actually quoting me (in which case I wouldn't have gotten a notification and may simply have overlooked it), I don't see where you asked for information from me which I didn't attempt to give you. I provided positive feedback to you early on, recommended you create a thread specifically about seeking a personal practice, and encouraged you to try to disengage the "rational mind" (which you didn't take seriously, apparently). I suggested a particular system (which I no longer think would be a good fit for you in your current situation but that's irrelevant) and I inquired about your geographic location because I wanted to reach out to some folks about potentially considering you as a student.

 

Perhaps you have me confused with someone else?

Brian please read this post from earlier in this thread. You thanked opendao obviously agreeing with his take on my deviating somewhere a long the way -

 

http://www.thedaobums.com/topic/43877-question-about-stages-in-neidan/?p=747252

 

Great, so what exactly is the problem I wondering? And of course I'm grateful for you advice from other threads. But in this thread not so much tbh.

[Aletheia]

You should conclude that your ego is interfering with you comprehension, conclude that you are not open too much to receive help, conclude that the student is not ready.

Actually what I conclude makes me wonder why you're wasting your time at a hermitage.

 

Anyway, I've had it with this forum.

 

I'll delete my password and only come back when I have either advanced or fallen flat on my face. Or thinking about it I might not bother coming back. If I advance I won't want to come back here and if I fall on my face I have no problem admitting to it but I don't see how coming back here is going to help with that tbh.

[Brian]

Brian please read this post from earlier in this thread. You thanked opendao obviously agreeing with his take on my deviating somewhere a long the way -

 

http://www.thedaobums.com/topic/43877-question-about-stages-in-neidan/?p=747252

 

Great, so what exactly is the problem I wondering? And of course I'm grateful for you advice from other threads. But in this thread not so much tbh.

Ah. Yes, you asked me a question buried in a reply to opendao and I missed it. Sorry!

 

I think you should stop trying to think your way through this and should instead find a real teacher of some high-level energetic practice who you can meet in-real-life. I think you will find this problematic, frankly, because your cup is full; until you recognize that you don't have the proper puzzle-pieces, you will continue to be defensive towards, and argue with, anyone who gives you advice which doesn't align with your current understanding. I think you should take a break from any energetic practices and from intellectual pursuits for a good long while (many months) and just "be." I think you should stop taking hallucinogenics. I think your current trajectory puts you at risk for a psychotic break. I think you had a legitimate experience but a premature one, and I think that you should either sincerely follow one of the respected pathways in that direction or avoid those avenues entirely. I think the phenomena you describe experiencing are indicative of playing with fire and I think you have already been burned even if you don't recognize it -- avoiding both energetic and intellectual engagements should quickly stop & reverse that, as would a legitimate practice.

 

That's what I think.