[DDJ Meaning] Chapter 6

[dawei]

Legge

 

6

The valley spirit dies not, aye the same; 
The female mystery thus do we name. 
Its gate, from which at first they issued forth, 
Is called the root from which grew heaven and earth. 
Long and unbroken does its power remain, 
Used gently, and without the touch of pain. 

 

 

Lau

 

6

The spirit of the valley never dies. 
This is called the mysterious female. 
The gateway of the mysterious female 
Is called the root of heaven and earth. 
Dimly visible, it seems as if it were there, 
Yet use will never drain it. 

 

 

Feng/English

 

6

The valley spirit never dies; 
It is the woman, primal mother. 
Her gateway is the root of heaven and Earth. 
It is like a veil barely seen. 
Use it; it will never fail.

 

 

Bill Porter (Red Pine)

 

6

The valley spirit that doesn't die we call the dark womb
as real as gossamer silk and yet we can't exhaust it.
The valley spirit that doesn't die we call the dark womb the dark womb's mouth we
call the source of creation as real as gossamer silk and yet we can't exhaust it.

 

 

Jonathan Star

 

6

 

Endlessly creating
Endlessly pulsating
The Spirit of the Valley never dies
She is called the Hidden Creator
Although She becomes the whole universe
Her immaculate purity is never lost
Although She assumes countless forms
Her true identity remains intact
Whatever we see or don’t see
Whatever exists or doesn’t exist
Is nothing but the creation of this Supreme Power
Tao is limitless, unborn, eternal –
It can only be reached through the Hidden Creator
She is the very face of the Absolute
The gate to the source of all things eternal
Listen to Her voice
Hear it echo through creation
Without fail, She reveals her presence
Without fail, She brings us to our own perfection

[Marblehead]

Just don't be messing with the Valley Spirit.

[Starjumper]

The valley spirit lives forever.

It is woman, mother of god.

Her gateway is the Way to heaven.

Barely seen behind her gossamer dress.

For a good time call 362-3645

[Marblehead]

Oh!, that was so fucking slick!!!

[Gerry]

Just don't be messing with the Valley Spirit.

This is another place where the original language confuses me.  In the cultural context of when the original was written/expressed, what is understood as "valley spirit"?  How would a sage today express the same thought/feeling?

[Gerry]

[...]

For a good time call 362-3645

I am glad there is no area code.

[Gerry]

6. THE PERFECTING OF FORM  [Aleister Crowley]
The Teh is the immortal enemy of the Tao, its feminine aspect. Heaven
and Earth issued from her Gate; this Gate is the Root of their World-
Sycamore. Its operation is of pure Joy and Love, and faileth never.

 

I find the juxtaposition of "Te" and "Tao" here.  Whether appropriately translated, what does this imply?

[dust]

Honestly, I have no idea where Crowley got most of that from.

 

There's no mention of de/teh or dao/tao at all, nor "joy" nor "love" nor "sycamore"; he's mixed up gate and root; and he's ignored this mysterious 'valley spirit' completely.

 

I know you're looking for a different answer but in a discussion of the DDJ.. well, I don't see how it fits. It doesn't actually translate the text, as far as I can tell.

 

Also Jonathan Star's. It's barely recognizable as chapter 6. Dude should stick to Christian mysticism (well, he basically has with this translation).

Edited April 9, 2017 by dust

[Starjumper]

This is another place where the original language confuses me.  In the cultural context of when the original was written/expressed, what is understood as "valley spirit"?  How would a sage today express the same thought/feeling?

 

The bottom of valleys is where all the mineral sediment and topsoil washed down from the mountains ends up.  It's also where the water ends up.  So when you mix all the nutrients in the soil with the water you WILL get life.  The valleys are where nature and life flourishes, it's easy to see this when you live in most mountainous regions.  Some people can feel the extra life energy in the low places.  It is better to camp among the trees rather than on the windswept ridges above the tree line because there is more life energy there in the trees.

Edited April 9, 2017 by Starjumper

[Stosh]

Isnt your retreat way high up in the clouds on a mountain?

(to be fair in sharing ... I live in florida which is so flat and low we dont even Have rocks and when we look to camp, we look for high dry ground)

Edited April 9, 2017 by Stosh

[Jeff]

Here is my take on chapter 6. To me it is a very profound teaching and extremely valuable clue for all.

 

The valley spirit is the mother of all (10,000) things.

Relative to time and space, she is external and present in all things.

Search for her as as she is the gateway that leads to the realization of heaven and earth (enlightenment).

 

(She is the pure "light" of pure reception (female principle), or completely unattached energy)

[Marblehead]

Here is my take on chapter 6. To me it is a very profound teaching and extremely valuable clue for all.

 

The valley spirit is the mother of all (10,000) things.

Relative to time and space, she is external and present in all things.

Search for her as as she is the gateway that leads to the realization of heaven and earth (enlightenment).

 

(She is the pure "light" of pure reception (female principle), or completely unattached energy)

 

I think that is a valid perspective.  I have never taken it that far.  I pretty much just relate the Valley Spirit with the Yin principle and primarily with the state of rest.

[Gerry]

Honestly, I have no idea where Crowley got most of that from.

 

There's no mention of de/teh or dao/tao at all, nor "joy" nor "love" nor "sycamore"; he's mixed up gate and root; and he's ignored this mysterious 'valley spirit' completely.

 

I know you're looking for a different answer but in a discussion of the DDJ.. well, I don't see how it fits. It doesn't actually translate the text, as far as I can tell.

 

Also Jonathan Star's. It's barely recognizable as chapter 6. Dude should stick to Christian mysticism (well, he basically has with this translation).

Neither do I because it is such a variant translation.

 

 

There's no mention of de/teh or dao/tao at all, nor "joy" nor "love" nor "sycamore"; he's mixed up gate and root; and he's ignored this mysterious 'valley spirit' completely.

I assumed that if this was in the original characters others would have tip their caps to it.  But the language that is repeatedly used leaves me flat too.  There are cultural references here that 2500 years ago may have helped me.  The "valley spirit" gives me flashes of native Americans looking over the grand canyon.

 

My feelings on this is "the creative is like women bringing forth life.  This source of all things is the mysterious gate that all things comes through.  "

 

6  Mitchel

The Tao is called the Great Mother:

empty yet inexhaustible,

it gives birth to infinite worlds.

It is always present within you.

You can use it any way you want.

 

The last two lines are more individualistic than other translations, so I question how "authentic" they are.  English, and Red Pine make use of the veil imagery.

 

From English's

"It is like a veil barely seen.

Use it; it will never fail. "

 

 

Do you think this, both of translations, are a way to say that even though we have a sense of this infinite source it is beyond our ken. Still we may use our lack of true understanding as long as we try to resolve the dualism of knowing but not knowing?

Edited April 10, 2017 by Gerry

[dust]

From experience it seems that the best way I can offer something to such a discussion, and especially questions like you have Gerry, is to do a little multi-word translation of the text. This is an edited version from an earlier chapter 6 topic. It contains a mixture of the received and Mawangdui versions, MWD in blue. There are more permutations of most of these words available but I had to stop somewhere...!

 

 

浴/谷神不死                      valley / desire / grain    spirit / god    not die

是胃玄牝                           is called    mysterious    gorge / female

玄牝之門                           mysterious    gorge / female    door

是胃天地之根                    is called    heaven / sky    earth    root

縣縣 / 綿綿(呵)其若存       hang/suspend / continuous / tender/weak / flourishing  (ha)  it’s like   exist / life / preserve / survive

用之不堇/勤                      use / put forth its strength / need / act / function    not    few / merely / industrious / exhaust

Edited April 16, 2017 by dust

[flowing hands]

Where has this 'valley spirit' come from? How does it add up to the rest of the verse? It doesn't really, perhaps comes from the belief in the river spirits that roamed along the valley and woods. Offerings were often given to the 'valley spirit', as this was often a source of food and water.

 

Lei Erh though taught me this:

 

The root of Heaven and Earth lies in its spirit.

Search and feel this spirit, for it ever present,

the gateway to all mysteries.

 

The spirit is the primordial Mother of the Ten Thousand Things (all things that exist)

It is ever present and eternal.

 

 

Now this makes sense and is indeed all about self cultivation to become an Immortal.

[Gerry]

From experience it seems that the best way I can offer something to such a discussion, and especially questions like you have Gerry, is to do a little multi-word translation of the text. This is an edited version from an earlier chapter 6 topic. It contains a mixture of the received and Mawangdui versions, MWD in blue. There are more permutations of most of these words available but I had to stop somewhere...!

 

 

浴/谷神不死                      valley / desire / grain    spirit / god    not die

是胃玄牝                           is called    mysterious    gorge / female

玄牝之門                           mysterious    gorge / female    door

是胃天地之根                    is called    heaven / sky    earth    root

縣縣 / 綿綿(呵)其若存       hang/suspend / continuous / tender/weak / flourishing  (ha)  it’s like   exist / life / preserve / survive

用之不堇/勤                      its use  not   few / merely / industrious / exhaust

Thank you very much.  Is there a text that is written this way?  It is exactly what I have been looking for in this iteration.

[Gerry]

Dust,

 

I add that reading this says so much more to me than any translation.

[Gerry]

Flowing hands,
 
I find more resonance in your translation.  [it it yours?]

 

Not as a linked to these thoughts,

 

We live as being levered against Being

Being is forever revealing to being

 

An edit added thought:  Being and being are very western terms. 

Edited April 10, 2017 by Gerry

[dust]

Thank you very much.  Is there a text that is written this way?  It is exactly what I have been looking for in this iteration.

 

No problem. I'm not sure if there's a full text like this. I seem to remember someone saying that there is, but not naming it.

 

I've done this kind of translation with a few chapters (not many though) and they're in the older topics here. Can't remember which ones exactly. One day I'll look through and make a collection of them cos it does seem like something worth having.

[Starjumper]

Isnt your retreat way high up in the clouds on a mountain?

 

 

Yes we are up in the high mountains, and there are lots of valleys in these here mountains too, more like ravines or canyons near the ridge tops, and yes they are choked full of life.  Since it is near the equator there is a lot of life even at hight altitude though, the national park that is nearby is said to have the most biodiversity of any place on Earth.  Of course the lower land jungles are teeming with life too ... BUGS.  At this altitude we are above the mosquito zone, the big mosquitos that carry all the nasty diseases, including the newly invented nastier diseases,  don't live up here.  What lives up here are eagles and dragons.  At this altitude the energy is a little different, not teeming with life so much like in the jungle, but teeming with an energy so clean and with a sparkle that exists in few places in the world ... and true blue skies.

Edited April 10, 2017 by Starjumper

[Gerry]

No problem. I'm not sure if there's a full text like this. I seem to remember someone saying that there is, but not naming it.

 

I've done this kind of translation with a few chapters (not many though) and they're in the older topics here. Can't remember which ones exactly. One day I'll look through and make a collection of them cos it does seem like something worth having.

Back in the 70's I had two books:  one a translation of TTC done in that style with a third panel of a plain English rendition.  The other looked at Chinese characters from their earliest form to modern characters.

 

When you store books in a basement that floods you loose track of some things.

[flowing hands]

HI Gerry

 

I do not read Chinese and I am an English speaker and writer. Although I do know some Chinese that is pertinent to my practices. My version is not a translation, it was taught to me by Lao Tzu back in 1986/7. If you didn't know I am a traditional Shaman accepted and baptized in Malaysia and one of my teachers is Lao Tzu. So my version comes from the 'horses mouth'.

[Gerry]

HI Gerry

 

I do not read Chinese and I am an English speaker and writer. Although I do know some Chinese that is pertinent to my practices. My version is not a translation, it was taught to me by Lao Tzu back in 1986/7. If you didn't know I am a traditional Shaman accepted and baptized in Malaysia and one of my teachers is Lao Tzu. So my version comes from the 'horses mouth'.

Oh...Lao Tzu   not "the" Lao-Tzu. If you mean the historical figure, that was not clear. I wish you well in your chosen path.

[flowing hands]

Hi Gerry,

 

yes the Lao Tzu or as he is righty called, Lei Erh Xian Shi. Became a great Immortal of the spirit world 2,500 years ago.

[Gerry]

Hi Gerry,

 

yes the Lao Tzu or as he is righty called, Lei Erh Xian Shi. Became a great Immortal of the spirit world 2,500 years ago.

It sounded like you were saying, " Say hi Lei Erh Xian Shi, I am Flowing Hands.  What do you say we sit and have some tea and you can tell me what I want to know."  Sort of as if the two of you shook hands then drank some tea, face to face.

 

Is that how you mean "So my version comes from the 'horses mouth'."  ?

Edited April 12, 2017 by Gerry