bindo Posted February 22, 2011 seriously... Love it! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
taotongue Posted February 22, 2011 (edited) v Edited March 11, 2011 by taotongue Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sahaj Nath Posted February 22, 2011 (edited) Spontaneous, involuntary, or spasm movements are considered undesirable and dangerous side effects at best, fakery and a sham at worst. maybe you're a newbie, or you're just not that far along in your own development, but you couldn't be more wrong about this statement. i'm even willing to invite you to Sacramento, free of charge. seriously. i even have a room that you can stay in. i have no idea where you hail from, but i can very easily show you and demonstrate both the existence and the efficacy of spontaneous natural flow. it's the lynchpin of my instruction for advanced students. if it cannot arise for you organically and naturally, then you should reject it. that's how we roll over here, and i wouldn't hesitate to be tested by anyone. earlier you made a statement about people not understanding what qigong is really about, and i think you were RIGHT-ON in that post. ESPECIALLY with regard to Max. i mean, the guy defined qigong as drawing in power from the outside, and he defined neigong as giving out power to others. he defined enlightenment as being blissfully happy at any moment. the guy was way wrong about a TON of stuff. but spontaneous movement is a FACT. it's talked about the book that i use as a general textbook, The Healing Promise of Qi by Roger Jahnke. he draws from The Book of The Master Who Embraces Simplicity, from the Taoist school of Complete Reality. spontaneous natural flow is why i don't practice any of the more contrived alchemical exercises, and yet i'm willing to have my development compared to anyone who DOES practice those methods. internal alchemy is a natural process for which the body is readily designed. natural flow is the only necessary access point. it requires more YI development in order to take place organically, but it's the truest path. no doctrine or contrived methodologies to follow. and, most importantly, IT WORKS. i would urge you to reconsider your perspective on this. you don't have to claim knowledge one way or the other. but if you really want to know, come and see for yourself. seriously. Edited February 22, 2011 by Hundun Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
onelove Posted February 22, 2011 (edited) Amidst all of the back and forth of this thread two real gems of wisdom have been brought to the surface. Thank you to Red Phoenix for your point on discernment versus judgment - in my experience this understanding is key to progress in spiritual development, particularly mind based training methods, be it Yi Gong, Tibetan Bon Po or Nyingma,or Daoist Golden Light or similar alchemical methods. Also thanks to Hundun for your point on Spontaneous or Natural Flow methods of qigong - I have experienced these methods to be quite valid and effective in my practice. I also consider Spontaneous/Natural Flow methods to be quite gentle and nourishing. Lastly I would like to add to the discussion that these two gems connect very well in practice: Training to free the mind from judgment and the limits of cognitive thought and emotional response, while maintaining awareness, allows for the pre-natal shen to flow, relaxing tension, easing rigidity, releasing blocks, and allowing for the natural, free flow of energy to nourish body, mind, and spirit. This "mind training" for me is the heart of spontaneous qigong. And the practice of forms, particularly for me taiji, helps develop the greater Yi necessary for more effective spontaneous practice, while at the same time helping to open the channels and the physical body to ensure that spontaneous movements and expressions of energy are expressed in a free flowing, graceful, and gentle manner. I wish you all well in your practice, whatever it may be. Edited February 22, 2011 by onelove 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Red Pheonix Posted February 22, 2011 Amidst all of the back and forth of this thread two real gems of wisdom have been brought to the surface. Thank you to Red Phoenix for your point on discernment versus judgment - in my experience this understanding is key to progress in spiritual development, particularly mind based training methods, be it Yi Gong, Tibetan Bon Po or Nyingma,or Daoist Golden Light or similar alchemical methods. Also thanks to Hundun for your point on Spontaneous or Natural Flow methods of qigong - I have experienced these methods to be quite valid and effective in my practice. I also consider Spontaneous/Natural Flow methods to be quite gentle and nourishing. Lastly I would like to add to the discussion that these two gems connect very well in practice: Training to free the mind from judgment and the limits of cognitive thought and emotional response, while maintaining awareness, allows for the pre-natal shen to flow, relaxing tension, easing rigidity, releasing blocks, and allowing for the natural, free flow of energy to nourish body, mind, and spirit. This "mind training" for me is the heart of spontaneous qigong. And the practice of forms, particularly for me taiji, helps develop the greater Yi necessary for more effective spontaneous practice, while at the same time helping to open the channels and the physical body to ensure that spontaneous movements and expressions of energy are expressed in a free flowing, graceful, and gentle manner. I wish you all well in your practice, whatever it may be. Very well stated, in depth and quite accurate! My spidey senses are tingling.... uuuuh huh!!! *huuuuugs* (but you knew that was coming) ps. thanks for sharing your water, we like with that sort of intention Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
torus693 Posted February 22, 2011 (edited) v Edited February 22, 2011 by torus693 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
