The belief in a world made of Matter

[dwai]

 

This is relevant to discussions with both Jeff and Jonesboy.

[AussieTrees]

Hi dwai,

 

Seems as though we need to all log on to consciousness daily.

[dwai]

Hi dwai,

 

Seems as though we need to all log on to consciousness daily.

 

Haha when are we not?

 

A bit more on this topic --

 

Edited April 21, 2017 by dwai

[Jeff]

 

This is relevant to discussions with both Jeff and Jonesboy.

Don't quite understand your point. How is this relevant to our past discussions?

 

Thanks, Jeff

[Brian]

The world is made of matter which doesn't really exist but seems like it does, an illusion sufficiently persistent as to be generally true.

[dwai]

The world is made of matter which doesn't really exist but seems like it does, an illusion sufficiently persistent as to be generally true.

To seem to be true

[dwai]

Don't quite understand your point. How is this relevant to our past discussions?

 

Thanks, Jeff

Wrt our discussions about pure being/presence and the ruler sage

[Marblehead]

The world is made of matter which doesn't really exist but seems like it does, an illusion sufficiently persistent as to be generally true.

 

You believe such because you are one of those quantum guys.

[rene]

You believe such because you are one of those quantum guys.

Sheldon or Leonard?

[Marblehead]

Sheldon or Leonard?

 

I think Brian is Max Planck's grandson.

[thelerner]

I'm a Newtonian Boy

Living in a Quantum World.

[dawei]

Interesting !

 

He first defines matter as outside of consciousness  and says consciousness is a temporary window of our waking state mind.  

Laws of physics are laws of mind.  Mind is each infinite mind in the field of consciousness. 

 

Dreams are mind;  Subject knows itself as mind ; the world is matter

 

then disagrees with scientist who says flies, fish, and humans are consciousness. 

 

So his argument seems to be that any experience is within consciousness.  Prior to thought or perception, is just potential without form (empty abyss) but then takes form which is consciousness. 

 

An object is different than the space.  That knowing is consciousness.  You are consciousness. 

 

 

"Has anyone experienced anything other than their knowing of their experience?" 

 

 

This last statement shows his weak position.  Because HE HAS NOT experienced it, it doesn't exist.

[Marblehead]

 

This last statement shows his weak position.  Because HE HAS NOT experienced it, it doesn't exist.

I declare:  He does not exist.  (But I do.)

[thelerner]

I'm reminded of a certain Kabbalic paradigm.  It's not that there's one God in the universe.  It's that the whole universe; all of time, thought, space and matter are within God's mind.  We are.. (aspects within) God's dream. 

 

Personally such musings seem less valuable then the Dark Chocolate covered Espresso beans on my desk.  Though both can keep me up on nights I indulge too deeply. 

[Brian]

You believe such because you are one of those quantum guys.

You are, too. You are just in denial.

[liminal_luke]

Why do Africans make good physicists?  Because black lives matter.

 

(Luke runs from bad joke police -- fast.)

[Jeff]

Wrt our discussions about pure being/presence and the ruler sage

You will have to give me more specifics. Still don't get your point.

 

Thanks.

[dwai]

You will have to give me more specifics. Still don't get your point.

 

Thanks.

The point being, "opting" be a ruler sage in an dream world is no freedom. Just being, presence, is.

 

I don't mean this in a snarky way.

 

This will make things clearer I think --

 

https://youtu.be/df9YPTe14nU

Edited April 22, 2017 by dwai

[dwai]

Interesting !

 

He first defines matter as outside of consciousness and says consciousness is a temporary window of our waking state mind.

Laws of physics are laws of mind. Mind is each infinite mind in the field of consciousness.

 

Dreams are mind; Subject knows itself as mind ; the world is matter

 

then disagrees with scientist who says flies, fish, and humans are consciousness.

 

So his argument seems to be that any experience is within consciousness. Prior to thought or perception, is just potential without form (empty abyss) but then takes form which is consciousness.

 

An object is different than the space. That knowing is consciousness. You are consciousness.

 

 

"Has anyone experienced anything other than their knowing of their experience?"

 

 

This last statement shows his weak position. Because HE HAS NOT experienced it, it doesn't exist.

It is not a weak position. No one can know this.

[C T]

For him, yes, the absence of a particular (personal) experience implies absence of total objectivity, which some might deny. 

 

So when consciousness is mentioned, its worth taking into consideration there are various consciousnesses, each relating to one or a *matriculated combination of two or more of the sense doors.

 

For eg, Stinky Tofu seemingly exists for me only in the realm of smell. I have never tasted it, but i can describe the smell, which is more than sufficient as an invisible barrier that prevents me from even getting close to look at this delicacy of the Taiwanese, Chinese and people of Hong Kong, let alone taste it. 

 

 

 

 

* Origin

late 16th century: from medieval Latin matriculat- ‘enrolled’, from the verb matriculare, from late Latin matricula ‘register’, diminutive of Latin matrix .

 

 

[dwai]

 

For him, yes, the absence of a particular (personal) experience implies absence of total objectivity, which some might deny.

 

So when consciousness is mentioned, its worth taking into consideration there are various consciousnesses, each relating to one or a *matriculated combination of two or more of the sense doors.

 

For eg, Stinky Tofu seemingly exists for me only in the realm of smell. I have never tasted it, but i can describe the smell, which is more than sufficient as an invisible barrier that prevents me from even getting close to look at this delicacy of the Taiwanese, Chinese and people of Hong Kong, let alone taste it.

 

 

 

 

* Origin

 

 

late 16th century: from medieval Latin matriculat- ‘enrolled’, from the verb matriculare, from late Latin matricula ‘register’, diminutive of Latin matrix .

There is consciousness (awareness if you please), and then there is consciousness "of" stinky tofu. The sense of smell is what makes the "stinky tofu", stinky tofu. Therefore it is consiousness of stinky tofu. The underlying awareness is/consciousness is not changed. The phenomenon of stinky tofu rises and subsides in consciousness.

[3bob]

there is no Shiva without Shakti, 

 

there is no sound without unstruck sound,

 

there is not a Buddha without a Mother

 

there is no disconnect between the Tao and the One and the from the One to the Ten-Thousand

[AussieTrees]

Well before there was the mind there was no mind.

 

Matter existed even before the mind had been born.

 

So matter does exist outside the mind.

[Apech]

It is indeed an opinion strangely prevailing amongst men, that houses, mountains, rivers, and in a word all sensible objects have an existence natural or real, distinct from their being perceived by the understanding. But with how great an assurance and acquiescence soever this principle may be entertained in the world; yet whoever shall find in his heart to call it in question, may, if I mistake not, perceive it to involve a manifest contradiction. For what are the forementioned objects but the things we perceive by sense, and what do we perceive besides our own ideas or sensations; and is it not plainly repugnant that any one of these or any combination of them should exist unperceived?

 

 

Bishop Berkeley 1685 -1753

[Marblehead]

Well before there was the mind there was no mind.

 

Matter existed even before the mind had been born.

 

So matter does exist outside the mind.

 

I call that circular logic.  But it worked this time.