MURDERS IN US VERY CONCENTRATED

[silent thunder]

If you look at them as friends, then they will be!

 

silent thunder ponders where and how Michael procured a picture of his wife... 

[cold]

Who's wife?

I sure ain't accepting a lunch or dinner invite from the liked of them.

[silent thunder]

My gal spiritually, is nigh on every ounce a bear... though that embodies both the grand depth of detailed loving and nuzzling care along with the force of reckoning should one endanger what she perceives to be a cub in her energetic care.

[Marblehead]

And for the record, I wasn't quite serious when I suggested walling off parts of America.

Well, I thought you were serious and thought it was a good idea.

[liminal_luke]

Briefly looking at that map, it seems like most of the dark red is in California and on the East Coast.  Apparently, very few murders happen in the middle of the country.  Too bad.  If I could live anywhere in the United States, I think I`d choose a place with lots of murders.  There`s more culture, better restaurants.  A greater concentration of quality Tai Chi classes.  A Californian life is the only life for me -- just not, perhaps, for long.

[Marblehead]

...  just not, perhaps, for long.

 

Yeah, most people don't last too long in California.

[Spotless]

To me, Lao-tzu's statement boils down to:

 

The more you focus on something - be it positive or negative -, the more you will call it forth.

I have no problem with this:

 

"The more you focus on something - be it positive or negative -, the more you will call it forth."

 

But could you clarify how Lao-tzu's statement:

"The greater the number of Laws and Enactments, the more Thieves and Robbers there will be" boils down to it?

[Brian]

Briefly looking at that map, it seems like most of the dark red is in California and on the East Coast. Apparently, very few murders happen in the middle of the country. Too bad. If I could live anywhere in the United States, I think I`d choose a place with lots of murders. There`s more culture, better restaurants. A greater concentration of quality Tai Chi classes. A Californian life is the only life for me -- just not, perhaps, for long.

Just the opposite here, Luke -- I've turned down opportunities to live in a number of metropolitan areas. Cities of 100k make me itch. I think 10k is big enough and then I prefer to live outside of it. I am now 15 minutes from the nearest post office and more than 40 from a 100k population center and I like it that way.

[liminal_luke]

Yeah, most people don't last too long in California.

 

True.  Then again, sometimes people check into hotels there and never leave.

 

[Marblehead]

True.  Then again, sometimes people check into hotels there and never leave.

 

 

 

Yeah, you done good with that one  Never expected it.

[Brian]

I have no problem with this:

 

"The more you focus on something - be it positive or negative -, the more you will call it forth."

 

But could you clarify how Lao-tzu's statement:

"The greater the number of Laws and Enactments, the more Thieves and Robbers there will be" boils down to it?

I would say, "When the rulers take responsibility and control, they take it from the ruled."

 

The law-abiding majority of a managed population surrenders responsibility and judgement to a ruling elite who promise to shepherd them, to protect them and provide for them. This promise cannot be delivered, however, and a recursive pattern of escalation begins. As the flock becomes more dependent upon the shepherd, the flock also becomes more vulnerable to the wolf, which is answered with more fences and more shepherds.

[silent thunder]

I just love California and Los Angeles... 17 years almost to the day that I arrived here and I dearly love it... it is a stunning incredible mix of culture, people, topography, surfing, skiing, camping, sailing, entertainment, museums, but really just the mad mix of cultures and people and their food and art... it. is. incredible.

 

Though I am always being called by the long, deep, quiet of the groves of ancient trees and the moist earth up north and when I retire from the hollyweird machine, my wife and I have tentative plans on heading a bit further north to Oregon to finish our days of this incarnation up there... however that may be, by bear, bullet or bus.

[qicat]

True.  Then again, sometimes people check into hotels there and never leave.

 

And she said, 'we are all just prisoners here, of our own device'

And in the master's chambers,

They gathered for the feast

They stab it with their steely knives,

But they just can't kill the beast...

[Michael Sternbach]

My favourite kanji: Ai - Love.

 

Lovely!

Edited April 29, 2017 by Michael Sternbach

[Michael Sternbach]

I have no problem with this:

 

"The more you focus on something - be it positive or negative -, the more you will call it forth."

 

But could you clarify how Lao-tzu's statement:

"The greater the number of Laws and Enactments, the more Thieves and Robbers there will be" boils down to it?

In a place where lots of laws and enactments are considered a necessity, there is a focus on crime. And that focus will energetically support and attract crime. Which will in turn reinforce the apparent importance of laws and enactments. The result is a vicious circle.

[Michael Sternbach]

I just love California and Los Angeles... 17 years almost to the day that I arrived here and I dearly love it... it is a stunning incredible mix of culture, people, topography, surfing, skiing, camping, sailing, entertainment, museums, but really just the mad mix of cultures and people and their food and art... it. is. incredible.

 

Though I am always being called by the long, deep, quiet of the groves of ancient trees and the moist earth up north and when I retire from the hollyweird machine, my wife and I have tentative plans on heading a bit further north to Oregon to finish our days of this incarnation up there... however that may be, by bear, bullet or bus.

As it happens, I will visit California in less than three weeks - for eleven days.

[Michael Sternbach]

I would say, "When the rulers take responsibility and control, they take it from the ruled."

The law-abiding majority of a managed population surrenders responsibility and judgement to a ruling elite who promise to shepherd them, to protect them and provide for them. This promise cannot be delivered, however, and a recursive pattern of escalation begins. As the flock becomes more dependent upon the shepherd, the flock also becomes more vulnerable to the wolf, which is answered with more fences and more shepherds.

It's akin to mothers raising their kids in a super clean household - it can be shown that the immune system of such children is weaker than normal, due to lack of 'training'.

[Spotless]

I would say, "When the rulers take responsibility and control, they take it from the ruled."

The law-abiding majority of a managed population surrenders responsibility and judgement to a ruling elite who promise to shepherd them, to protect them and provide for them. This promise cannot be delivered, however, and a recursive pattern of escalation begins. As the flock becomes more dependent upon the shepherd, the flock also becomes more vulnerable to the wolf, which is answered with more fences and more shepherds.

This is an assumption - many assumptions here.

 

As people concentrate they invariably want more laws and enactments.

"Elite" or not.

[Spotless]

In a place where lots of laws and enactments are considered a necessity, there is a focus on crime. And that focus will energetically support and attract crime. Which will in turn reinforce the apparent importance of laws and enactments. The result is a vicious circle.

Of course I do not know the context of these words from Lao-Tzu but in places where lots of laws are constructed - their is generally a citizenry that wants them - not considered generally as a necessity - with the exception that it is common to men to overstep in nearly every aspect of life and so laws are enacted in order to allow for most freedoms including the freedom not to have someone else monopolize space, time and assets.

 

In these areas the focus is generally on trying to get some things done - it is messy and slow and comical - like working within any large family.

 

The wild Wild West had few laws and crime was a very major focus.

 

Most laws are focused on asset disbursement, enjoyment, sharing and other things such as general safety issues and public works.

 

Perhaps what he was really alluding to is a simpler life - perhaps more something along the lines of not creating too much density.

Perhaps a reference to both society and ones insides.

[Brian]

This is an assumption - many assumptions here.

 

As people concentrate they invariably want more laws and enactments.

"Elite" or not.

You might want to read the TTC again, particularly Chapter 57.

[Brian]

It's akin to mothers raising their kids in a super clean household - it can be shown that the immune system of such children is weaker than normal, due to lack of 'training'.

Yes. Rules should​ be no more than necessary, should be uniformly applied, and should be continually reevaluated for currency of that necessity.

[Michael Sternbach]

Of course I do not know the context of these words from Lao-Tzu but in places where lots of laws are constructed - their is generally a citizenry that wants them - not considered generally as a necessity - with the exception that it is common to men to overstep in nearly every aspect of life and so laws are enacted in order to allow for most freedoms including the freedom not to have someone else monopolize space, time and assets.

In these areas the focus is generally on trying to get some things done - it is messy and slow and comical - like working within any large family.

The wild Wild West had few laws and crime was a very major focus.

Most laws are focused on asset disbursement, enjoyment, sharing and other things such as general safety issues and public works.

Perhaps what he was really alluding to is a simpler life - perhaps more something along the lines of not creating too much density.

Perhaps a reference to both society and ones insides.

Yes, there is often a citizenry calling for more and/or stricter laws, especially after they have been made believe by politicians and the media that this is the appropriate way to respond to an alleged great threat.

 

Most of all, here is the rationalization for the extensive surveillance of the general public, where everyone is a suspect a priori. This speaks to a deep distrust in human nature.

 

Some people's utopia is a world in which a violation of (whatever they consider to be) lawful conduct is no longer even an option, at least not without certain punishment.

 

However, the Daoist sage understands that, for any desired condition to be stable, some of its opposite must be allowed for (the black yin spot in the white yang, and vice versa).

 

A society should be cautious in such efforts; even though they may seem to serve a good cause, they will - like anything that goes too extreme - eventually lead to the opposite.

 

And that's right what Laotzu said with fewer words in chapter 57 and elsewhere.

[Brian]

There are two fundamentally different approaches to governance (well, there a couple others...) -- one is "we must do all we can" and the other is "we should do no more than we must."

[cold]

Less is more.