Prerequisites for enlightenment (if any)

[s1va]

They say animals cannot get enlightened because they lack the necessary faculty.  Only in human form it is possible.  It has been said, even devas/angels have to take human birth to attain liberation.

 

Made me wonder, if I have to make a prerequisites list for liberation, what would it include.

 

I am starting with the assumption, it has to be human.  I welcome challenges against this also.  What else is absolutely needed?

 

1)Human (aka with body+mind+intellect to inquire)

 

Does, health, functions of organs, energy, kundalini any of this are pre-requisites?

 

Let's take an illustration.  Some one is 98 years old.  Bedridden in hospital.  The faculty of seeing (physical organ - eyes) don't work so great.  The person can't stand up.  The only food is through fluids.  The faculties of hearing don't work so great.  He lived a life immersed in the joys and sorrows of the world outside.  He was never on a spiritual quest and have not even heard of the word liberation or enlightenment.  At this point, he some how comes to know about this liberation/enlightenment.

He says, hey this is what I want.  He is sincere and earnest in his seeking.  Do we tell him,  "Buddy, it's too  late, why don't you just relax and try it next time around?  See your sushumna is not open.  It will take years of practice to open it up.  You need to do pranayama and all.  Or you should do karma yoga, or you should inquire diligently."  With the body, the person stands no chance of doing pranayama, or any cultivation.  

 

1) Technically nothing should stop him from getting enlightened, if he had the mind and intellect functioning.  If we go by what masters say, he is already 'that' and only ignorance is the road block (like clouds), then he just needs to become aware of his true self.  He should be able to do it anytime just before the last breath. I would like to see who would agree with this.

 

2) Those that say, the person stands no chance in the present form or body.  He can only plant the seed, but it is impossible to attain the goal in the state(withering body) he is in.  If we were to say, he stands no chance, this would put prerequisites for enlightenment, such as health, function of organs, etc.  If this is the case, then let's list out what we think as prerequisites.

[Aetherous]

No negative feelings.

[Brian]

They say animals cannot get enlightened....

<snip>

"They" who?

 

How do they know?

 

EDIT: I think the prerequisite is consciousness but I also think the common understanding of "consciousness" is too narrow.

Edited April 30, 2017 by Brian

[Brian]

Have any Buddhas said animals cannot get enlightened?

Edited April 30, 2017 by Brian

[Brian]

I know of at least one which is highly credible... (The Falun Buddha school)

Falun Dafa?

[Brian]

You consider Li Hongzhi to be a Buddha? Or at least an enlightened being?

[C T]

 

1) Technically nothing should stop him from getting enlightened, if he had the mind and intellect functioning.  If we go by what masters say, he is already 'that' and only ignorance is the road block (like clouds), then he just needs to become aware of his true self.  He should be able to do it anytime just before the last breath. I would like to see who would agree with this.

 

 

 

From a Mahayana perspective: 

 

A lot would hinge on the dying person's mindset as he or she begins the dissolution process. 

 

Generally speaking, if the dying person leaves in a state of bewilderment, then that is a sign of carrying the confusion into the bardo states, and, depending on the level and forms of craving and aversion, the subtle consciousness will seek out a rebirth closest to those forms and level of craving and aversion. 

 

Alternatively, if the dying person lets go of regrets and leaves with little to no craving or aversive tendencies, it is said that such a mindstate (subtle consciousness) will tend towards a less traumatic, confusion-free bardo experience and, aided by helpful protectors, may even find rebirth in a pure land or buddha field, or at the very least, obtain a favourable rebirth filled with hindrance-free opportunities to practice the Dharma. He or she will easily encounter authentic spiritual friends and mentors who will ensure a smooth journey throughout. 

[C T]

Animals and other sentient beings have the potential to obtain favourable rebirths. 

 

Some realised masters have the ability to transfer the consciousness (Tib. Phowa) of a (dying) sentient being, directing it towards a rebirth with greater opportunities to connect with the Dharma. If the master is powerful, he or she can even project the consciousness to a pure land/buddha field. 

[s1va]

"They" who?

 

How do they know?

 

EDIT: I think the prerequisite is consciousness but I also think the common understanding of "consciousness" is too narrow.

 

They = some sources I have read or heard, that makes some sense with what I observe outside.  This is also the general belief.  Science would confirm that Animals lack faculties that humans possess.   Whether those faculties are enough to get enlightened, this is the question.

 

The topic is not just about animals, what need to be in place for enlightenment.  To be aware -- (what is needed).  Can trees get enlightened?

 

Human's think and they know that they think & they know that they are thinking about the thinking process.

[s1va]

Animals and other sentient beings have the potential to obtain favourable rebirths. 

 

Some realised masters have the ability to transfer the consciousness (Tib. Phowa) of a (dying) sentient being, directing it towards a rebirth with greater opportunities to connect with the Dharma. If the master is powerful, he or she can even project the consciousness to a pure land/buddha field. 

It is said in Ramayana, Rama gave moksha to the eagle (Jatayu).  But, this eagle is described with faculties to think & communicate.

 

Every one does not get such transferred consciousness.  So, what is the basic thing needed.  For a bubble to burst, there should be a bubble in the first place.

[Brian]

They = some sources I have read or heard, that makes some sense with what I observe outside. This is also the general belief. Science would confirm that Animals lack faculties that humans possess. Whether those faculties are enough to get enlightened, this is the question.

 

The topic is not just about animals, what need to be in place for enlightenment. To be aware -- (what is needed). Can trees get enlightened?

 

Human's think and they know that they think & they know that they are thinking about the thinking process.

Yes, trees can.

[s1va]

Yes, trees can.

Do trees have ego, 'I am the tree'?

[Brian]

Do trees have ego, 'I am the tree'?

Trees I've met have very different personalities and perspectives than humans I've met. They do have a sense of "self" but the nature of "forest life" and their sense of time make that sense quite different from what seems to be the common starting point for humans.

[Brian]

They have unique attributes. But, in some ways, they are probably more apt to become enlightened than humans.

This is my understanding, too.

[3bob]

it's a quandary since no one will attain enlightenment in the future yet one still prepares in time - and that is not exactly or always a LOL being that thinking and hearing about enlightenment but not knowing it can really be hellish in many ways! 

 

Btw, the Self chooses the Self, there is no willful way or mind method to accomplish that.

 

Sorry if I'm being a party pooper on the subject.

[silent thunder]

instinct says none

 

and also whispers... awareness is unavoidable

[Spotless]

They say animals cannot get enlightened because they lack the necessary faculty.  Only in human form it is possible.  It has been said, even devas/angels have to take human birth to attain liberation.

 

Made me wonder, if I have to make a prerequisites list for liberation, what would it include.

 

I am starting with the assumption, it has to be human.  I welcome challenges against this also.  What else is absolutely needed?

 

1)Human (aka with body+mind+intellect to inquire)

 

Does, health, functions of organs, energy, kundalini any of this are pre-requisites?

 

Let's take an illustration.  Some one is 98 years old.  Bedridden in hospital.  The faculty of seeing (physical organ - eyes) don't work so great.  The person can't stand up.  The only food is through fluids.  The faculties of hearing don't work so great.  He lived a life immersed in the joys and sorrows of the world outside.  He was never on a spiritual quest and have not even heard of the word liberation or enlightenment.  At this point, he some how comes to know about this liberation/enlightenment.

He says, hey this is what I want.  He is sincere and earnest in his seeking.  Do we tell him,  "Buddy, it's too  late, why don't you just relax and try it next time around?  See your sushumna is not open.  It will take years of practice to open it up.  You need to do pranayama and all.  Or you should do karma yoga, or you should inquire diligently."  With the body, the person stands no chance of doing pranayama, or any cultivation.  

 

1) Technically nothing should stop him from getting enlightened, if he had the mind and intellect functioning.  If we go by what masters say, he is already 'that' and only ignorance is the road block (like clouds), then he just needs to become aware of his true self.  He should be able to do it anytime just before the last breath. I would like to see who would agree with this.

 

2) Those that say, the person stands no chance in the present form or body.  He can only plant the seed, but it is impossible to attain the goal in the state(withering body) he is in.  If we were to say, he stands no chance, this would put prerequisites for enlightenment, such as health, function of organs, etc.  If this is the case, then let's list out what we think as prerequisites.

Regarding the 98 year old - it is completely possible for this example to become Enlightened.

In fact it is quite possible - if they have "seen" the pointers to attainment.

 

At 98 one has moved beyond oneself many times - it may not take much for a 98 year old to drop interest in "their story", their positions, the frequencies of what constitute their karma - in an instant they could "no longer be" and attain to full Awakening.

And they would be in a wonderful circumstance - radiant and with no earthly expectations.

[3bob]

Desire is a prerequisite.  Meaning and defining "desire" not as something to be looked upon as negative or as a misleading factor, nor as something to be shunted, stunted and killed and thus eliminated without mercy.  

 

For all beings Desire the freedom and spiritual being-ness of their True Self, of the True Self.  (which they feel separate from and incomplete in some way or another until that truest  Desire is fulfilled) 

Edited May 1, 2017 by 3bob

[AussieTrees]

Prerequisites for enlightenment.

Sounds like we need to turn the power switch to the on position.haha

 

The enlightened person is an ordinary person with concern for others and the environment in which we all live.

There is understanding of the human condition and our many vices and potential weaknesses.

Compassion love and kindness towards others to those in need or otherwise.

Non judgemental and respect of persons regardless of social standing.

There is selflessness without ego or need to nourish ego.

A spiritual life,of practice and interaction within the desired religious flavour one chooses.

Care for ones physical vehicle both in nourishment and activity.

A joy for life,so much so that others notice and identify.

Communication with others is effective and easy going without emotional dramatics.

 

Enlightenment is not a permanent condition,desires and stressful relations as well as drugs and alcohol,can very quickly change the situation.

Samsara is what it is,a state of mind devoted to desire,ruled by emotion and ego,pressure cooked by cash.

 

As a ninety eight year old,having lived a full lifetime anything is possible,let's just wait and see,but then again it is reserved ticketing system,just for that persons knowing or rebirth.

 

Anyway,that got to be worth 2 cents in the bowl.

Edited May 1, 2017 by AussieTrees

[C T]

It is said in Ramayana, Rama gave moksha to the eagle (Jatayu).  But, this eagle is described with faculties to think & communicate.

 

Every one does not get such transferred consciousness.  So, what is the basic thing needed.  For a bubble to burst, there should be a bubble in the first place.

I think the most essential factor to effect the meeting of master and sentient being is affinity. 

 

Consciousnesses are being tossed around all the time, known or unbeknownst to the many. Its just that a master knows the formula of setting correct intent and scope, much like a gifted maestro directing an orchestra. 

[Michael Sternbach]

Often, enlightenment occurs when the borders of the ego have been shattered, molten, or burned off. So when you come undone - ask yourself what may be the deeper meaning of your state.

[C T]

Often, enlightenment occurs when the borders of the ego have been shattered, molten, or burned off. So when you come undone - ask yourself what may be the deeper meaning of your state.

Sounds odd but i have long given up looking for meaning in the revelations of the inner journey 

[3bob]

Prerequisites for enlightenment.

Sounds like we need to turn the power switch to the on position.haha

 

The enlightened person is an ordinary person with concern for others and the environment in which we all live.

There is understanding of the human condition and our many vices and potential weaknesses.

Compassion love and kindness towards others to those in need or otherwise.

Non judgemental and respect of persons regardless of social standing.

There is selflessness without ego or need to nourish ego.

A spiritual life,of practice and interaction within the desired religious flavour one chooses.

Care for ones physical vehicle both in nourishment and activity.

A joy for life,so much so that others notice and identify.

Communication with others is effective and easy going without emotional dramatics.

 

Enlightenment is not a permanent condition,desires and stressful relations as well as drugs and alcohol,can very quickly change the situation.

Samsara is what it is,a state of mind devoted to desire,ruled by emotion and ego,pressure cooked by cash.

 

As a ninety eight year old,having lived a full lifetime anything is possible,let's just wait and see,but then again it is reserved ticketing system,just for that persons knowing or rebirth.

 

Anyway,that got to be worth 2 cents in the bowl.

 

a (full) enlightenment that is not permanent is not full enlightenment...

 

Btw, that which reincarnates is something which we also don't know (most of us anyway) but it's a neat concept that has legs.

[Michael Sternbach]

Sounds odd but i have long given up looking for meaning in the revelations of the inner journey 

Are you talking about meaningless revelations?

 

[3bob]

Often, enlightenment occurs when the borders of the ego have been shattered, molten, or burned off. So when you come undone - ask yourself what may be the deeper meaning of your state.

 

ego coming undone is not the same as your truth coming undone - but its waking up