Prerequisites for enlightenment (if any)

[Michael Sternbach]

I think Mickey Mouse is an immortal too. He doesn't seem to have aged at all since he was first seen 90 years ago!

 

 

And while I'm not sure if he seeks enlightenment, he is known to act as a magician.

 

[rainbowvein]

Was he conscious?

 

Unfortunately, no. He had passed by the time I met him.

[Brian]

Unfortunately, no. He had passed by the time I met him.

I'm sorry to hear that. Please give him my regards anyhow.

[Sudhamma]

OP: The pre-requisites of enlightenment. What is this enlightenment in this thread? Are we looking at Daoist or Buddhist or any other enlightenment? From various other threads, I read of enlightenment according to Daoism and of other belief systems. Each as their own 'pre-requisites' and go tangent to each other. So, what is this 'enlightenment' in respect to this thread? Will you at least elaborate?

[Starjumper]

Prerequisites for enlightenment?

 

 

1.  High level of internal self honesty

[silent thunder]

what a great conversation... thanks bums.

 

I still hold with one prereq

 

awareness  (it's the only one that is seems unavoidable (please keep in mind, this is according to my current perspective and my perspective is not inherently true, real, or even important))

 

no effort, no sustaining, no achievements, no combining, no filtering, no synthesizing, no building

no transducing, no transmitting, no infusing, no distilling...

 

awareness.

 

edit to change is to seems

Edited May 4, 2017 by silent thunder

[cold]

Appreciation is often under valued or over looked.

[rainbowvein]

Appreciation

 

 

[cold]

That sure is full of appreciation!

[3bob]

Hello Silent thunder,

 

With room related for other definitions - I'd say my definition of awareness is that it is a given - like an element.  And in that sense it is already existent thus not a requirement that is needed to be met. (although clarified and reaching full potentail)

[s1va]

OP: The pre-requisites of enlightenment. What is this enlightenment in this thread? Are we looking at Daoist or Buddhist or any other enlightenment? From various other threads, I read of enlightenment according to Daoism and of other belief systems. Each as their own 'pre-requisites' and go tangent to each other. So, what is this 'enlightenment' in respect to this thread? Will you at least elaborate?

What Buddhist say as 'Nirvana'.  What Hindus call as 'Moksha'.  What is generally described as 'Enlightenment', 'Liberation' or 'Freedom' by modern day teachers.  

Understanding that one is not just body+mind+ego,therefore transcending the suffering & agony caused by such false or narrow identification.

[silent thunder]

Hello Silent thunder,

 

With room related for other definitions - I'd say my definition of awareness is that it is a given - like an element.  And in that sense it is already existent thus not a requirement that is needed to be met. (although clarified and reaching full potentail)

Nicely put mate.  That's nigh on exactly what I'm driving at, but put more succinctly.  Thanks.

 

Awareness really does seem foundational.  As I relate to it, it's the fabric of all else, so in that manner I still perceive it as the prerequisite, for without it, nothing else would manifest, either in the subtle or the gross. 

[3bob]

well cool, we can see through the eye of Self as aware-ness, not unlike how we can also see the world through the eyes of a young child....

Edited May 6, 2017 by 3bob

[Starjumper]

Prerequisites for enlightenment?

 

 

2.  A lot of meditation of the no mind or no thinking variety, and it's more powerful if the hands are facing palm up, like in zazen.

Edited May 5, 2017 by Starjumper

[SeekerOfHealing]

 

What Buddhist say as 'Nirvana'.  What Hindus call as 'Moksha'.  What is generally described as 'Enlightenment', 'Liberation' or 'Freedom' by modern day teachers.  

Understanding that one is not just body+mind+ego,therefore transcending the suffering & agony caused by such false or narrow identification.

 

 

No. Moksha is different. Nirvana is different. Enlightenment is different. Liberation and freedom also.

[Sudhamma]

Pre-requisites of Enlightenment:

 

Given the various contributions in this thread, I had to ask for a clearer definition of what this ‘enlightenment’ was supposed to mean in the original post. The reply in #70 stated a slew of what enlightenment was meant by original contributor kaverni. I agreed with SeekerofHealing that there was no common ground as to what enlightenment is amongst those religions. From the old Oxford Dictionary, enlightenment means, “free from ignorance, prejudice, superstition, etc” and “the period (18^th Century) when men believed that reason, and science (and not religion) would advance human progress”.

 

In thread #1, what it said here hinged on Buddhist beliefs. And, I shall restrict my reply based on my Buddhist beliefs.

 

#1:

They say animals cannot get enlightened because they lack the necessary faculty.  Only in human form it is possible.  It has been said, even devas/angels have to take human birth to attain liberation. (Comment: There are within Buddhist belief, 6 realms of existence, and the animal realm is one of them. According to the birth stories of The Buddha, he was an animal for a few times in his previous births. Before his last birth, He was a deva in the Tusita Heaven.)

 

Made me wonder, if I have to make a prerequisites list for liberation, what would it include.

 

I am starting with the assumption, it has to be human.  I welcome challenges against this also.  What else is absolutely needed?

 

#13

They = some sources I have read or heard, that makes some sense with what I observe outside.  This is also the general belief. Science would confirm that Animals lack faculties that humans possess.   Whether those faculties(#1, Does, health, functions of organs, energy, kundalini any of this are pre-requisites?) are enough to get enlightened, this is the question.

 

#14 Is the transfer of Consciousness, enlightenment? Is the ‘bubble’ Consciousness?

 

Every one does not get such transferred consciousness.  So, what is the basic thing needed.  For a bubble to burst, there should be a bubble in the first place.

(Comment: Rebirth is not Enlightenment)

 

#37 Is logical thinking and analysis required to understand enlightenment? Is enlightenment a mental process?

 

Yes, we can only look at the example and illustrations outside, as long as we think and analyze with the mind.  Assuming the thinking faculty is necessary in some way to inquire and figure this out. (Comment: weeding out defilements is not just a mental process,; effort, and wisdom are needed)

 

Why did Buddha get enlightened under that Bodhi tree on that day?  Why not, on the day when he saw the suffering and decided, I don't want to live such a life, I want to find an answer to this.  Why did he not attain nirvana right then and there? If we were to give an answer to this question with mind, we have to agree it is a process.

(Comment: You should read the sutras/suttas, or His Life Story/History. In short, after 7 years of searching and tried both extreme practices, he was close to death until a lady from a nearby village came with a bowl of milk-rice. She was instructed by a deva in a dream the previous night to make the offering to a tree-deva in the forest. The next day, she went into the forest to search for the tree-deva, but finding none, and instead found a man, rather unkempt, sitting underneath a tree. She offered the milk-rice to him instead. That person was Siddharta. He ate the milk-rice. His body was nourished, and he went to the nearby river to wash. He then thought that the day could be the day of his enlightenment. He then place his begging bowl into the river and said that if that was the day, let the bowl flow upstream. And so it did flow upstream. With that reassured faith, he made a resolve not rise from the seat (beneath the banyan tree) until he was enlightened. For 7 days and nights, he meditated beneath the banyan tree and on the 7^th day, he was fully ‘enlightened’.)

 

#38 Is enlightenment permanent? Does it occur at the body+mind level?

 

Enlightenment has to be permanent at some level.  May not be at body+mind level.  If it is not permanent at any level, then as Om Swami writes on his book "Kundalini", it might be better to go smoke pot, rather than be on this pursuit.

(Comment: Enlightenment is permanent).

 

#49 No response as to what are the requirements to enlightenment?

No one has responded (yet) as requirement, what many books & teachers advocate as the methods, or process that sets the path:

1)  karma yoga (state of effortless action)

2)  raja yoga/energy work.  (opened up, cleansed the nervous system)

3)  jnana yoga/ inquiry into his nature with discipline and dispassion

4)  surrender, practise of devotion/ bhakti yoga diligently

 

#55

I can wholeheartedly agree with this based on my experience (now).  One path opened(ing) up ways to others naturally became(ing) all. I used to believe that it has to take a certain charted course or path.  In particular, I was hung up on karma-yoga, and strongly believed it has to happen early on the game, before others.  I went out of my way to find justifications for this on scriptures & talks, later blamed them entirely.  After all, it can't be my fault 

 

(Comment: Nibbana is the destination, and once you choose to proceed towards it, you need to take the main road, Enlightenment. But there are many side-paths along the way which many had veered towards, but in time, they would be back on the main path).

 

#70

What Buddhist say as 'Nirvana'.  What Hindus call as 'Moksha'.  What is generally described as 'Enlightenment', 'Liberation' or 'Freedom' by modern day teachers.  Understanding that one is not just body+mind+ego,therefore transcending the suffering & agony caused by such false or narrow identification.

 

Comment

What is Enlightenment? The Pali word is Bodhi. And the factors of enlightenment, Bojjhanga. There are 7 factors, or as you like, pre-requisites to Enlightenment. “ (Through Bodhi) one awakens from the slumber or stupor (inflicted upon the mind) by the defilements (kilesa) and comprehends the four Noble Truths” – commentary to Majjhima Niyaka 10.

 

What is Nibbana/Nirvana? The term is often translated to be ‘Extinction’; to cease blowing, to become extinguished, ‘freedom from desires’. It is explained as “Nibbana constitutes the highest and ultimate goal of all Buddhist aspirations, ie absolute extinction of that life-affirming Will manifested as Greed, Hate, and Delusion, and convulsively clinging to existence; and therewith also the ultimate and absolute deliverance from all future rebirth, old age, disease and death, from all suffering and misery.” – Buddhist Dictionary, Manual of Buddhist Terms and Doctrines, by Nyanatiloka.

 

Thus, Enlightenment is not Nibbana.

 

It is not 1, or 2 nor 3 pre-requisites, but 7 pre-requisites of Enlightenment.

 

So, what are the 7 factors/pre-requisites of Enlightenment? The Bojjhanga.

“The 7 factors of Enlightenment are; Mindfulness (sati-sambojjhanga), Investigation of the Law (dhamma-vicaya), Energy (viriya), Rapture (pitti), Tranquility (passaddhi), Concentration (samadhi), and Equanimity (uppekkha).” – Buddhist Dictionary, Manual of Buddhist Terms and Doctrines, by Nyanatiloka.

 

Thank you for this thread, and it could not have come anytime better. On 10^th May 2017, the Buddhist world celebrates the thrice-blessed day of Vesak. My reply to the OP may not be satisfactory or too brief, but you are urged to ‘investigate the Law’, that is, go and study Buddhism in a proper place if you are seriously in search of answers and wisdom.

 

I shall end with a wish for all of you Bums, “Sabbe Satta Sukhita Hontu”, meaning, May you (and your loved ones) be well and happy always! Happy Vesak!

[Michael Sternbach]

Commenting on some of your comments... Also posing more questions to further this interesting discussion.

 

Pre-requisites of Enlightenment: Given the various contributions in this thread, I had to ask for a clearer definition of what this ‘enlightenment’ was supposed to mean in the original post. The reply in #70 stated a slew of what enlightenment was meant by original contributor kaverni. I agreed with SeekerofHealing that there was no common ground as to what enlightenment is amongst those religions. From the old Oxford Dictionary, enlightenment means, “free from ignorance, prejudice, superstition, etc” and “the period (18^th Century) when men believed that reason, and science (and not religion) would advance human progress”. In thread #1, what it said here hinged on Buddhist beliefs. And, I shall restrict my reply based on my Buddhist beliefs.

This raises some interesting questions: Is the state of enlightenment that can be attained by various methods the same? In other words, is the enlightenment of the Zen practitioner essentially the same as that of the Kabbalist? If not, what do they share in common? And/or does it depend on the individual? 

 

#1:They say animals cannot get enlightened because they lack the necessary faculty.  Only in human form it is possible.  It has been said, even devas/angels have to take human birth to attain liberation. (Comment: There are within Buddhist belief, 6 realms of existence, and the animal realm is one of them. According to the birth stories of The Buddha, he was an animal for a few times in his previous births. Before his last birth, He was a deva in the Tusita Heaven.)</p></blockquote>

If we take spontaneously following one's true nature (emphasized especially in Daoism and Zen, but also in early Christianity) as the (or a) feature of enlightenment, then animals have no need for enlightenment, because they are masters at this already (as long as they haven't been conditioned by humans, anyway). 

 

Made me wonder, if I have to make a prerequisites list for liberation, what would it include. I am starting with the assumption, it has to be human.  I welcome challenges against this also.  What else is absolutely needed? #13They = some sources I have read or heard, that makes some sense with what I observe outside.  This is also the general belief. Science would confirm that Animals lack faculties that humans possess.   Whether those faculties(#1, Does, health, functions of organs, energy, kundalini any of this are pre-requisites?) are enough to get enlightened, this is the question.

Certain observations led me to conclude that the condition of the nervous system plays a role here. 

#14 Is the transfer of Consciousness, enlightenment? Is the ‘bubble’ Consciousness? Every one does not get such transferred consciousness.  So, what is the basic thing needed.  For a bubble to burst, there should be a bubble in the first place.(Comment: Rebirth is not Enlightenment)

Not sure what you mean by all this. Is the 'bubble' the ego? If so: No, it must not burst, but it can have its boundaries gradually expanded. The former would not be enlightenment, but its dark sister called psychosis. 

 

#37 Is logical thinking and analysis required to understand enlightenment? Is enlightenment a mental process? Yes, we can only look at the example and illustrations outside, as long as we think and analyze with the mind.  Assuming the thinking faculty is necessary in some way to inquire and figure this out. (Comment: weeding out defilements is not just a mental process,; effort, and wisdom are needed)

Although enlightenment always transcends the mental, it builds upon some kind of intellectual reflection according to some of the ways (i.e. Kabbalah, Jnana-yoga, Rinzai-zen), while the mind is rather seen as a hindrance in others (Hatha-yoga, Soto-zen, sometimes Daoism). 

 

Why did Buddha get enlightened under that Bodhi tree on that day?  Why not, on the day when he saw the suffering and decided, I don't want to live such a life, I want to find an answer to this.  Why did he not attain nirvana right then and there? If we were to give an answer to this question with mind, we have to agree it is a process.(Comment: You should read the sutras/suttas, or His Life Story/History. In short, after 7 years of searching and tried both extreme practices, he was close to death until a lady from a nearby village came with a bowl of milk-rice. She was instructed by a deva in a dream the previous night to make the offering to a tree-deva in the forest. The next day, she went into the forest to search for the tree-deva, but finding none, and instead found a man, rather unkempt, sitting underneath a tree. She offered the milk-rice to him instead. That person was Siddharta. He ate the milk-rice. His body was nourished, and he went to the nearby river to wash. He then thought that the day could be the day of his enlightenment. He then place his begging bowl into the river and said that if that was the day, let the bowl flow upstream. And so it did flow upstream. With that reassured faith, he made a resolve not rise from the seat (beneath the banyan tree) until he was enlightened. For 7 days and nights, he meditated beneath the banyan tree and on the 7^th day, he was fully ‘enlightened’.)  

I always read this as a hint at the 'middle way', refuting extreme ascetism.

 

#38 Is enlightenment permanent? Does it occur at the body+mind level? Enlightenment has to be permanent at some level.  May not be at body+mind level.  If it is not permanent at any level, then as Om Swami writes on his book "Kundalini", it might be better to go smoke pot, rather than be on this pursuit.

Which is reminiscent of the movie 'The Wall', with Bob Gelf just sitting there with a big joint in his hand and letting the world go by... Not a far cry from Suzuki's ideal Zen Buddhist!

[C T]

the criterion for enlightenment from the Buddhist pov is rather direct and simple: One has to work to gain insight into the three marks of existence, namely, anicca (impermanence), dukkha (resulting failure in understanding anicca, or transiency), and anatta (what is this self in relation to anicca and dukkha). 

[Michael Sternbach]

(Continuation of my previous post. Sorry Sudhamma, I had to get rid of some of your formatting for technical reasons.)

 

(Comment: Enlightenment is permanent).

This is a bit of a tricky question. While enlightenment does introduce changes in the psyche that are quite irreversible, it does not mean that the individual has no more issues (incentives for further progress, looked at positively).

 

Even of the Buddha we hear that he could be short-tempered and self-righteous sometimes...

 

No response as to what are the requirements to enlightenment? No one has responded (yet) as requirement, what many books & teachers advocate as the methods, or process that sets the path:  karma yoga (state of effortless action) raja yoga/energy work.  (opened up, cleansed the nervous system) jnana yoga/ inquiry into his nature with discipline and dispassion  surrender, practise of devotion/ bhakti yoga diligently I can wholeheartedly agree with this based on my experience (now).  One path opened(ing) up ways to others naturally became(ing) all. I used to believe that it has to take a certain charted course or path.  In particular, I was hung up on karma-yoga, and strongly believed it has to happen early on the game, before others.  I went out of my way to find justifications for this on scriptures & talks, later blamed them entirely.  After all, it can't be my fault (Comment: Nibbana is the destination, and once you choose to proceed towards it, you need to take the main road, Enlightenment. But there are many side-paths along the way which many had veered towards, but in time, they would be back on the main path).

Please clarify how the 'side-paths' are different from the 'main path'. Do you mean that there are secondary methods as opposed to a primary method? 

 

What Buddhist say as 'Nirvana'.  What Hindus call as 'Moksha'.  What is generally described as 'Enlightenment', 'Liberation' or 'Freedom' by modern day teachers.  Understanding that one is not just body+mind+ego,therefore transcending the suffering & agony caused by such false or narrow identification.

That is not describing a way, but its goal. (Then again, some say that the way is the goal... ) 

 

What is Enlightenment? The Pali word is Bodhi. And the factors of enlightenment, Bojjhanga. There are 7 factors, or as you like, pre-requisites to Enlightenment. “ (Through Bodhi) one awakens from the slumber or stupor (inflicted upon the mind) by the defilements (kilesa) and comprehends the four Noble Truths” – commentary to Majjhima Niyaka 10.What is Nibbana/Nirvana? The term is often translated to be ‘Extinction’; to cease blowing, to become extinguished, ‘freedom from desires’. It is explained as “Nibbana constitutes the highest and ultimate goal of all Buddhist aspirations, ie absolute extinction of that life-affirming Will manifested as Greed, Hate, and Delusion, and convulsively clinging to existence; and therewith also the ultimate and absolute deliverance from all future rebirth, old age, disease and death, from all suffering and misery.” – Buddhist Dictionary, Manual of Buddhist Terms and Doctrines, by Nyanatiloka. Thus, Enlightenment is not Nibbana.

When I started studying Zen in my later teenage years, I was somewhat shocked by a statement by Daisetz Suzuki to the effect that the ideal state in Zen would be the one of a non-reactive individual, just sitting somewhere without any desires and actions to fulfil those - a living dead. I briefly referred to this above.

 

Now becoming an autist was clearly not what I had in mind... 

 

It is not 1, or 2 nor 3 pre-requisites, but 7 pre-requisites of Enlightenment. So, what are the 7 factors/pre-requisites of Enlightenment? The Bojjhanga.“The 7 factors of Enlightenment are; Mindfulness (sati-sambojjhanga), Investigation of the Law (dhamma-vicaya), Energy (viriya), Rapture (pitti), Tranquility (passaddhi), Concentration (samadhi), and Equanimity (uppekkha).” – Buddhist Dictionary, Manual of Buddhist Terms and Doctrines, by Nyanatiloka.

Not sure if all of these are really pre-requisites (some may rather be effects), although they generally do occur to one degree or another already on the way to enlightenment, and things tend to get a bit non-linear here.

 

Thank you for this thread, and it could not have come anytime better. On 10th May 2017, the Buddhist world celebrates the thrice-blessed day of Vesak. My reply to the OP may not be satisfactory or too brief, but you are urged to ‘investigate the Law’, that is, go and study Buddhism in a proper place if you are seriously in search of answers and wisdom.

Agreed! That place is called 'life'. 

 

I shall end with a wish for all of you Bums, “Sabbe Satta Sukhita Hontu”, meaning, May you (and your loved ones) be well and happy always! Happy Vesak!

Thank you. Sabbe Satta Sukhita Hontu to you too!

[Michael Sternbach]

In my view, enlightenment is the actualization of your individual self (filling it with light, so to speak). There are various methods and general guide lines, however, the exact pre-requisites will differ from one person to another. The individual who is ready will find guidance on their way.

[s1va]

Pre-requisites of Enlightenment:

 

Given the various contributions in this thread, I had to ask for a clearer definition of what this ‘enlightenment’ was supposed to mean in the original post. The reply in #70 stated a slew of what enlightenment was meant by original contributor kaverni. I agreed with SeekerofHealing that there was no common ground as to what enlightenment is amongst those religions. From the old Oxford Dictionary, enlightenment means, “free from ignorance, prejudice, superstition, etc” and “the period (18^th Century) when men believed that reason, and science (and not religion) would advance human progress”.

 

In thread #1, what it said here hinged on Buddhist beliefs. And, I shall restrict my reply based on my Buddhist beliefs.

 

#1:

They say animals cannot get enlightened because they lack the necessary faculty.  Only in human form it is possible.  It has been said, even devas/angels have to take human birth to attain liberation. (Comment: There are within Buddhist belief, 6 realms of existence, and the animal realm is one of them. According to the birth stories of The Buddha, he was an animal for a few times in his previous births. Before his last birth, He was a deva in the Tusita Heaven.)

 

Made me wonder, if I have to make a prerequisites list for liberation, what would it include.

 

I am starting with the assumption, it has to be human.  I welcome challenges against this also.  What else is absolutely needed?

 

#13

They = some sources I have read or heard, that makes some sense with what I observe outside.  This is also the general belief. Science would confirm that Animals lack faculties that humans possess.   Whether those faculties(#1, Does, health, functions of organs, energy, kundalini any of this are pre-requisites?) are enough to get enlightened, this is the question.

 

#14 Is the transfer of Consciousness, enlightenment? Is the ‘bubble’ Consciousness?

 

Every one does not get such transferred consciousness.  So, what is the basic thing needed.  For a bubble to burst, there should be a bubble in the first place.

(Comment: Rebirth is not Enlightenment)

 

#37 Is logical thinking and analysis required to understand enlightenment? Is enlightenment a mental process?

 

Yes, we can only look at the example and illustrations outside, as long as we think and analyze with the mind.  Assuming the thinking faculty is necessary in some way to inquire and figure this out. (Comment: weeding out defilements is not just a mental process,; effort, and wisdom are needed)

 

Why did Buddha get enlightened under that Bodhi tree on that day?  Why not, on the day when he saw the suffering and decided, I don't want to live such a life, I want to find an answer to this.  Why did he not attain nirvana right then and there? If we were to give an answer to this question with mind, we have to agree it is a process.

(Comment: You should read the sutras/suttas, or His Life Story/History. In short, after 7 years of searching and tried both extreme practices, he was close to death until a lady from a nearby village came with a bowl of milk-rice. She was instructed by a deva in a dream the previous night to make the offering to a tree-deva in the forest. The next day, she went into the forest to search for the tree-deva, but finding none, and instead found a man, rather unkempt, sitting underneath a tree. She offered the milk-rice to him instead. That person was Siddharta. He ate the milk-rice. His body was nourished, and he went to the nearby river to wash. He then thought that the day could be the day of his enlightenment. He then place his begging bowl into the river and said that if that was the day, let the bowl flow upstream. And so it did flow upstream. With that reassured faith, he made a resolve not rise from the seat (beneath the banyan tree) until he was enlightened. For 7 days and nights, he meditated beneath the banyan tree and on the 7^th day, he was fully ‘enlightened’.)

 

#38 Is enlightenment permanent? Does it occur at the body+mind level?

 

Enlightenment has to be permanent at some level.  May not be at body+mind level.  If it is not permanent at any level, then as Om Swami writes on his book "Kundalini", it might be better to go smoke pot, rather than be on this pursuit.

(Comment: Enlightenment is permanent).

 

#49 No response as to what are the requirements to enlightenment?

No one has responded (yet) as requirement, what many books & teachers advocate as the methods, or process that sets the path:

1)  karma yoga (state of effortless action)

2)  raja yoga/energy work.  (opened up, cleansed the nervous system)

3)  jnana yoga/ inquiry into his nature with discipline and dispassion

4)  surrender, practise of devotion/ bhakti yoga diligently

 

#55

I can wholeheartedly agree with this based on my experience (now).  One path opened(ing) up ways to others naturally became(ing) all. I used to believe that it has to take a certain charted course or path.  In particular, I was hung up on karma-yoga, and strongly believed it has to happen early on the game, before others.  I went out of my way to find justifications for this on scriptures & talks, later blamed them entirely.  After all, it can't be my fault 

 

(Comment: Nibbana is the destination, and once you choose to proceed towards it, you need to take the main road, Enlightenment. But there are many side-paths along the way which many had veered towards, but in time, they would be back on the main path).

 

#70

What Buddhist say as 'Nirvana'.  What Hindus call as 'Moksha'.  What is generally described as 'Enlightenment', 'Liberation' or 'Freedom' by modern day teachers.  Understanding that one is not just body+mind+ego,therefore transcending the suffering & agony caused by such false or narrow identification.

 

Comment

What is Enlightenment? The Pali word is Bodhi. And the factors of enlightenment, Bojjhanga. There are 7 factors, or as you like, pre-requisites to Enlightenment. “ (Through Bodhi) one awakens from the slumber or stupor (inflicted upon the mind) by the defilements (kilesa) and comprehends the four Noble Truths” – commentary to Majjhima Niyaka 10.

 

What is Nibbana/Nirvana? The term is often translated to be ‘Extinction’; to cease blowing, to become extinguished, ‘freedom from desires’. It is explained as “Nibbana constitutes the highest and ultimate goal of all Buddhist aspirations, ie absolute extinction of that life-affirming Will manifested as Greed, Hate, and Delusion, and convulsively clinging to existence; and therewith also the ultimate and absolute deliverance from all future rebirth, old age, disease and death, from all suffering and misery.” – Buddhist Dictionary, Manual of Buddhist Terms and Doctrines, by Nyanatiloka.

 

Thus, Enlightenment is not Nibbana.

 

It is not 1, or 2 nor 3 pre-requisites, but 7 pre-requisites of Enlightenment.

 

So, what are the 7 factors/pre-requisites of Enlightenment? The Bojjhanga.

“The 7 factors of Enlightenment are; Mindfulness (sati-sambojjhanga), Investigation of the Law (dhamma-vicaya), Energy (viriya), Rapture (pitti), Tranquility (passaddhi), Concentration (samadhi), and Equanimity (uppekkha).” – Buddhist Dictionary, Manual of Buddhist Terms and Doctrines, by Nyanatiloka.

 

Thank you for this thread, and it could not have come anytime better. On 10^th May 2017, the Buddhist world celebrates the thrice-blessed day of Vesak. My reply to the OP may not be satisfactory or too brief, but you are urged to ‘investigate the Law’, that is, go and study Buddhism in a proper place if you are seriously in search of answers and wisdom.

 

I shall end with a wish for all of you Bums, “Sabbe Satta Sukhita Hontu”, meaning, May you (and your loved ones) be well and happy always! Happy Vesak!

Thanks for taking the time to write the reply, addressing each one of my questions.  It is is satisfactory to me, in the sense I can relate to what you say.  Not just satisfied, I am elated to read your reply.  I may not understand certain terms or key words that you used.

 

When I start discussions, normally I don't expect 'THE' answer most times.  I enjoy in the participating in the discussion, and I learn so many things.  It just opens the door to many other new possibilities.

[s1va]

 One has to work to gain insight into the three marks of existence, namely, anicca (impermanence), dukkha (resulting failure in understanding anicca, or transiency), and anatta (what is this self in relation to anicca and dukkha). 

 

Who is the "One"?  That was the original question.  Does that "One" has to have certain qualifications before engaging in a pursuit to gain insight into the three markers you described?

 

Impermanence (anicca) seems to be a given, everything that is born, invariably dies.  Those who agree and disagree will die.

(Is impermanence the root cause of dukkha is another debate.  I would say, ajnana (ignorance) makes me think "I am" impermanent, resulting in dukkha)

 

I can relate to this particular view on dukkha /sorrow.   I would think awareness of this dukha opens the door, or pushes me towards gaining insight.   When Buddha saw that old person, or a dead body.  The old man or the dead body were not suffering.  The suffering that Buddha perceived was in his own mind, would this be accurate?  

 

I would say, being aware of the process that causes dukkha/suffering would be a prerequisite to get those insights.  

Edited May 6, 2017 by kāvēri

[3bob]

Obviously there is a 180 degree dichotomy between Buddhism and Hinduism on key doctrines of which one can not realistically embrace both... although common ground on certain things can be embraced but again not on the key or major aspects. and I think if "one" tries to do so it can or probably will blow the mind in a negative way.

 

Btw. It can not be said that Buddhism (per the historic Buddha's teachings) sees any other path besides itself (or what is in effect saying the same thing) as being fully viable and leading to enlightenment or whatever term we want to play around with; does anyone wonder about that while seeing that posts about other paths are often outnumbered by Buddhist based ones ?

Edited May 6, 2017 by 3bob

[Sudhamma]

@Bob3, and @Michael Sternbach,  the Buddhist path, commonly known as The Path of Emancipation as laid down by the 'historical' Buddha is one straight path towards the destination, Nibbana. That route is Enlightenment, and does not 'see' any other path. The various sign-posts towards Nibbana are there and properly described. The moment, those sign-posts are 'played around', they lose their objectives and deviant practices emerge and adopted to be the real thing. Why take the chance and try to re-invent the wheel, unless one knows that here is more than enough time for experimentation. I don't think I have that leisure, as Death comes unannounced and uninvited. If there be spiritual cultivation, then there must and should be some earnestness otherwise, it is just a brain game of the philosophical kind. Hence, I can't comment on those traditions as mentioned in #76, 77 and 79. I'm ill-equipped to say anything on them. My apologies, Michael. When I first joined Dao Bums, my search is on the 'yin energy' as i was fascinated by Master John Chang's abilities, and then i was introduced to Daoism and Buddhism. You guys are fanastic!

[Michael Sternbach]

No apologies needed. If you feel you have found a path that works for you, that's great.