lobotomy via psychiatry!

[3bob]

Anyone read the book, "Toxic Psychiatry"  by Peter Breggin MD. ?

 

I'm not in any way qualified to give medical advice so what follows is just my paraphrasing and interpretations from what I've read:  Thus it is up to everyone to seek expert medical care.

 

There are so many horrible facts based on expert studies and reams of data revealed in his work!  I'm only part way through the book but now I would never seek relief through anti-depressant drugs which work by blunting  connections inside the brain to the frontal cortex - such blunting can easily become permanent to various degrees along with all sorts of other horrible and destructive side effects as seen and studied in depth by league's of doctors and medical scientists since the early 50's.  And with certain doses of these types of drugs over time - which can vary a great deal from person to person -  can effectively end up being equal to the chemical severance of the frontal cortex just as if a physical lobotomy had been performed on them! 

 

As brought up in the book it is very important to note and caution that anyone on anti-depressant drugs have medical supervision to get off of them !  And to also have psychological forms of help and support on multiple levels.  my paraphrasing again.

Edited May 5, 2017 by 3bob

[cold]

Ouch!

Haven't heard of the book but my interest is piqued.

Thanks.

[3bob]

Cold, I bought the book at Barnes and Noble.  The read is as scary as hell but also very medically scientific and erudite as written by an author and doctor with vast and direct first hand experience!

Edited May 3, 2017 by 3bob

[3bob]

Anyone with experiences along these lines would be welcome to share their story and knowledge..

 

My experience is only second hand in the sense of trying to figure out what is or could be happening to my dear family member.

[Kar3n]

Anti-depressants and I do not get along.

 

Thirteen years ago my mother passed away and I had a terrible time navigating the grief that came with it. I spoke with my doctor about it and he prescribed Zoloft as a short-term solution. At the time, I had no idea how short that term would be.

 

I started with a sample pack that had a lower dose for the first five days. Day one was pretty good. I felt better than I had in months and I thought it was going to do the trick for me. This brings us to day two- it was anything but normal.

 

I lived in a rural area and we had an exterminator come out every month to keep the spiders at bay. Greg, the Orkin man came like clockwork on the first Tuesday of every month at 9AM. That particular Tuesday I was enjoying a cup of coffee while watching a morning news program, planning my day and waiting on Greg to arrive.

 

Greg arrived; he knocked on the door. I sat on the sofa, paralyzed by fear! I was absolutely more terrified than I had ever been in my life, terrified of a man who had been in my house once a month for three years only ever having been a kind and courteous gentlemen. I tried to tell myself there was nothing to be scared of and that I was being silly, but my body would not move. I did not answer the door, instead I crawled on my hands and knees trying to stay out of sight to my bedroom where I hid under the cover of a blanket for hours. For hours!!!

 

I think about that day now and I kind of chuckle because it sounds so ridiculous, however, my fear was real, something in me changed due to the Zoloft, even at the lowest dosage. I feel like I got lucky, only two days in it changed me enough to know that it was not for me. I have often wondered how many other folks have had similar experiences and have vowed to never allow anything like that to pass through their lips again.

[3bob]

Thanks for sharing that experience Kar3n,  I'm glad for you in getting off the drug in just two days!

 

Btw. I recently went to a short and open group meeting at a decent medical clinic wondering if I could find out more about "meds" .I was kind of scolded and then corrected by one of the clients there when I used the term drugs instead of meds.  Later on and after studying the material I have I will never call such drugs - meds again, which gives imo a very false and benign type of connotation to them, for in my understanding they never cure and in countless cases have been shown to cause harm.

 

I think this short example shows one very small aspect of how drug companies and psychiatry influence how people term these drugs. 

[Stosh]

Your depression was of the sort which does pass ... largely. I imagine though that to people who have ongoing depression for years that they may take their chances or even just opt for the actual lobotomy.

Im not saying any of this should be dismissed or taken lightly, but just would offer that some people do probably benefit greatly , and then there would be the not so good events, and sometimes serious negative ones. Modern psych science isnt really science . Theres risks.

[cold]

Words matter: drugs vs meds.

[Kar3n]

There is no doubt that some folks benefit.

 

When a person is in the throws of grief induced depression and it is having adverse effects on your everyday life and family you will try anything for relief and solace.

 

My experience with Zoloft, is just that, mine, and it was not pleasant, even though short lived.

[3bob]

if these types of drugs which are designed to chemically blunt connections to the frontal cortex thus higher brain function and related mind function to give relief from the awareness of severe mental and emotional pain, and then in addition have been shown to chemically INDUCE that which they might have given some relief to earlier it stands that people are really no longer being helped but being induced with related and or further types of suffering in a very viscous circle which higher brain function and reasoning are needed to overcome but which are being blunted on a daily and long term basis!  (per my understanding)

Edited May 3, 2017 by 3bob

[Stosh]

Words matter: drugs vs meds.

Perhaps , but marijuana has been called a drug for a long time though it has medical uses. I have no idea how applicable it is to depression, but , I imagine its better than a downward spiral. So when medical marijuana came up on our ballot, I was for it on that count. Though I dont really know. ( but I also don't care if it becomes recreationally acceptable , everyone was drunk when they came up with our constitution, obviously society marches on anyway)

[Stosh]

if these types of drugs blunt higher brain function and related mind function to give relief from the awareness of severe mental and emotional pain, and then in addition have been shown to chemically INDUCE that which they might have given some relief to earlier people are really no longer being helped but being induced with related and or further types of suffering in a very viscous circle which higher brain function and reasoning are needed to overcome but which are being blunted on a daily and long term basis!  (per my understanding)

Its my observation that plenty of folks get by on minimal higher brain function., and some faiths even promote that very thing !

[3bob]

in some contexts that would be funny but not in this one where many have lost their loved ones to induced mental horror.

[vonkrankenhaus]

http://robertwhitaker.org/robertwhitaker.org/AnatomyofanEpidemic.html

 

or:

 

https://www.amazon.com/Anatomy-Epidemic-Bullets-Psychiatric-Astonishing/dp/1491513217

 

 

 

 

 

- VonKrankenhaus

[Stosh]

in some contexts that would be funny but not in this one where many have lost their loved ones to induced mental horror.

Are you implying that the cures for depression , are what is afflicting society? But I am not being entirely jocular , either , I think the book freaked you out and some balancing opinions are justified to remind you of. I dont think depression is just being a bit sad today, people literally kill themselves and sometimes orhers. Remember reefer madness ,it presented an extreme bias about a relatively mild drug that society could handle.

I think I have already given the basic reasons to take the book with a bit of salt, but if this is just going to be a new crusade you have no intention of mitigating with either perspective or humor , you will certainly outlast me on it. Nothin better than crusades.

Edited May 3, 2017 by Stosh

[3bob]

I suggest you read the book, it is not far flung or reactively freaking out - nor am I in response to such implied content of the material ....the book is written in a very understandable and erudite way, being that is super well and deeply researched by a doctor of psychiatry with many years of direct professional and personal experience.

 

We have been fed disinformation for many decades about what has been going on and it is a horror story.

Edited May 3, 2017 by 3bob

[Stosh]

I suggest you read the book it is not far flung or reactively freaking out nor am I in response to such implied material ....it is very erudite in being super well and deeply researched by a doctor with many years of direct experience.

 

We have been fed disinformation for many decades about what has been going on and it is a horror story.

I intend unfortunately or not, to not read the book . I believe your point without doing that ,that there are serious risks to this kind of medication. I dont need to be astounded or inflamed, and already know a third of the deaths in the U S are caused be medical f ups or misapplications of treatment. Aware is enough in this case.

[3bob]

agreed depression is not being a bit sad at all and can be life threating but chemically blunting higher brain function for a very dangerous form of relief is not and never will be a cure per my understaning.  For the very cure so to speak is through the use of higher brain/mind function that reaches into and understands all the painful mental and emotional things going on within us!  (and then how best to deal with same using all the tools that that very being of mind and emotion can use)

Edited May 3, 2017 by 3bob

[Taomeow]

Anti-depressants and I do not get along.

 

Thirteen years ago my mother passed away and I had a terrible time navigating the grief that came with it. I spoke with my doctor about it and he prescribed Zoloft as a short-term solution. At the time, I had no idea how short that term would be.

 

I started with a sample pack that had a lower dose for the first five days. Day one was pretty good. I felt better than I had in months and I thought it was going to do the trick for me. This brings us to day two- it was anything but normal.

 

I lived in a rural area and we had an exterminator come out every month to keep the spiders at bay. Greg, the Orkin man came like clockwork on the first Tuesday of every month at 9AM. That particular Tuesday I was enjoying a cup of coffee while watching a morning news program, planning my day and waiting on Greg to arrive.

 

Greg arrived; he knocked on the door. I sat on the sofa, paralyzed by fear! I was absolutely more terrified than I had ever been in my life, terrified of a man who had been in my house once a month for three years only ever having been a kind and courteous gentlemen. I tried to tell myself there was nothing to be scared of and that I was being silly, but my body would not move. I did not answer the door, instead I crawled on my hands and knees trying to stay out of sight to my bedroom where I hid under the cover of a blanket for hours. For hours!!!

 

I think about that day now and I kind of chuckle because it sounds so ridiculous, however, my fear was real, something in me changed due to the Zoloft, even at the lowest dosage. I feel like I got lucky, only two days in it changed me enough to know that it was not for me. I have often wondered how many other folks have had similar experiences and have vowed to never allow anything like that to pass through their lips again.

 

Ah, the lovely Zoloft.  Twenty years ago, I spent three days on it too.  On day three, it eliminated impulse control.  But completely.   I was renting, the landlady came in for something, I don't recall what, when I was in the kitchen preparing a meal.  Specifically, I was peeling potatoes standing by the sink.  She said something about that -- "be careful not to clog the sink" or something like that.  I twirled around like a tornado and threw the knife at her.  

 

Yup...  No more Zoloft for me.  Mercifully, she accepted my explanation and didn't press charges.    

[3bob]

Taomeow, That was a very scary reaction!  Thankfully no one was hurt!

[Stosh]

Ah, the lovely Zoloft.  Twenty years ago, I spent three days on it too.  On day three, it eliminated impulse control.  But completely.   I was renting, the landlady came in for something, I don't recall what, when I was in the kitchen preparing a meal.  Specifically, I was peeling potatoes standing by the sink.  She said something about that -- "be careful not to clog the sink" or something like that.  I twirled around like a tornado and threw the knife at her.  

 

Yup...  No more Zoloft for me.  Mercifully, she accepted my explanation and didn't press charges.

 

So what do you say the rest of the time?

[cold]

Reading the labels for medicines and over the counter drugs is sobering and scary!

[Stosh]

But you can also see why they are needed.

[cold]

It is the old if it don't kill you it may cure you.

or

Is the cure worth the cost?

[Stosh]

It is the old if it don't kill you it may cure you.

or

Is the cure worth the cost?

I know I couldnt answer whether its worth the cost , to someone else , so I think the kindest stance is to understand that ,yes, some will feel the risks justified , and I should not prolong the suffering by drawing up so dismal a scenario that those who wouldve made the choice that wouldve ended up being best for them a lot sooner , not be done till years more suffering have gone on, because I would tend to superimpose my own attitudes on their situation, though I was not actually experiencing that situation.

Its just so easy to imagine what you would do in their shoes, to level a judgement based on what one flatteringly imagines for themself.

Im teasing TM a bit, but really, I couldnt say for sure I wouldnt throw the knife,, I just wouldnt miss or tell anyone I did.