How much money should a master charge

[Dioni]

Hello,

Yesterday I found out a video of Sifu Zhou that shows the external powers reached through the practice 

I found out to have a friend on facebook that met him and she reported that even if she was impressed by his ability shown on the stage then she went to have a private session with him the next day and he asked her 300€ per 20 minutes and she was quite deluded about it.

What do you think about it?

I think that everyone needs money, so the fact is not that someone should not charge, but that if there is a line between helping people and taking advantage over people.

 

[liminal_luke]

Almost all of us have ego needs: we want things because having them helps us feel good about ourselves.  There is nothing so terrible, in my opinion, about fulfilling these ego needs -- provided you´ve got the cash.  When the ego goes shopping for shoes, it doesn´t settle for sneakers; no, the ego wants those fancy smancy Monolo Blahniks from Neiman Marcus.  When the ego goes to school, a local community college won´t do; the ego wants Harvard.  And when the ego wants to develop spiritually it doesn´t sign up for a tai chi class or attend a free lecture on Buddhist meditation.  That wouldn´t be good enough.  The ego wants to have a private audience with a sparkly chi gung "master" with supernatural powers.  Like I say, expensive.

Edited May 6, 2017 by liminal_luke

[Jeff]

It could also just be a test to see how serious your friend was in wanting to be a student. When looking for a teacher, always best to interact first hand, and not just go with someone else's recommendation. Different students will "resonate" with different teachers,

[thelerner]

Caveat emptor.  What does one expect from a such a meeting?  What can you learn in 20 minutes?  A secret password, gain mystical powers.. nah.  Maybe you can get inspired, get some sort of transmission?  Maybe worth it if you've got lots of money or a particular passion or connection to a person. 

 

Without knowing details I kinda think spending $300 eu for a month or three for yoga, meditation or martial art lessons at a local dojo will bring more real improvement then a short trip to miracle man.  Even if they're legitimate, don't expect a 20 minute fix to cure a 20 year problem. 

 

Personally I've paid $300 but that's for a long weekend  with classes in the mornings and evenings.  Well worth it, imo.

 

Who knows, it could be there are rare people who could make 20 minutes worthwhile.  Then again, often the difference between $25 and $400 champagne is the how well the maitre d is dressed. 

[Wu Ming Jen]

If someone was to hire a master for their schools seminar paying for the flight, food, lodging and teaching the seminar that could work out to some cash per 20 min.

[morning dew]

Caveat emptor.  What does one expect from a such a meeting?  What can you learn in 20 minutes?  A secret password, gain mystical powers.. nah.  Maybe you can get inspired, get some sort of transmission?  Maybe worth it if you've got lots of money or a particular passion or connection to a person. 

 

Without knowing details I kinda think spending $300 eu for a month or three for yoga, meditation or martial art lessons at a local dojo will bring more real improvement then a short trip to miracle man.  Even if they're legitimate, don't expect a 20 minute fix to cure a 20 year problem. 

 

Personally I've paid $300 but that's for a long weekend  with classes in the mornings and evenings.  Well worth it, imo.

 

Who knows, it could be there are rare people who could make 20 minutes worthwhile.  Then again, often the difference between $25 and $400 champagne is the how well the maitre d is dressed. 

 

^^ pretty much this, IMO.

 

I suppose if I had an incurable illness/disease and he had the reputation of curing such things in an hour, I might splash out 900 euros for an hour (or whatever). Also, I guess if I were some kind of high-level student and needed to learn a specific technique from a genuine 'master', maybe I might go for it. Otherwise, I'm not going to pay 300 euros just to see somebody moving around iron filings with their fingers lol

Edited May 7, 2017 by morning dew

[gendao]

On 5/6/2017 at 0:46 PM, Dioni said:

Hello,

Yesterday I found out a video of Sifu Zhou that shows the external powers reached through the practice 

I found out to have a friend on facebook that met him and she reported that even if she was impressed by his ability shown on the stage then she went to have a private session with him the next day and he asked her 300€ per 20 minutes and she was quite deluded about it.

What do you think about it?

I think that everyone needs money, so the fact is not that someone should not charge, but that if there is a line between helping people and taking advantage over people.

On 11/27/2013 at 4:38 PM, h.uriahr said:

The Italian group uses a device to pump electricity through the meridians and makes it easier to progress. They are affordable too. The only downside is that none of them can do what Zhou can do.

This was 4 years ago.  But, there's not much else here on this guy (Zhou Gan Sheng) and perhaps things have changed since then?

 

Based on this small evaluation, I wouldn't be paying 300€ per 20 minutes, though.  Like, not even close.  I mean, what does he even promise to do in that 20 minutes?  Actually to do an intense healing, or just give some oral instructions?  Gee, I hope he works or talks really fast at that rate!

 

Look, when n00bs start this game, they usually try to seek out the highest master they can find and then hope he can magically upgrade them like some computer software.  After a while though, they'll start to realize that most of the work is up to themselves to slowly build up their foundation (jibengong) and progress from there...

 

Honestly, if you want to study neidan or even just qigong - a good, accessible starting block is simply YOGA.  Then after maybe some ~15 years of that, you might be ready for the next step into some actual qigong or neidan?

Edited August 25, 2017 by gendao

[Seatle185]

People often seek instant gratification in these practices which isnt the point. Having powers isnt the point either. For true internal development you need to spend decades of dedicated practice. 300 for 20 minutes doesnt appeal to me, even if he gave out magical powers and enlightenment, it is still up to the student to do the work to maintain it, but if the student doesnt put in the work to get there they dont know how to maintain it and take it for granted.Iv studied with a great teacher who only charged 60 a month! And he is the type that beleives the best teachers only nudge the student in the right direction, they dont solve all the students problems for them. So i agree with most the others here it is a bit too high of a price and i wouldnt pay it myself

[Dioni]

Thanks to all the great replies!

Yeh the private session was for healing. She didn't mention any particular pathology that needed to be cure but I guess that everyone would give it a go after all the show and advertising of healing benefits (maybe no if the price was revelead in advance LOL)

About the practice lot of masters say that in the presence of him there are much more improvements that practicing alone as his energetic fields allow some changes in our energetic body. I think this is true but again I don't know what is the line between helping people and taking advantage over people in relation to the money asked.

[C T]

Lots of cheeky chappies out there, so beware! 

 

300 bucks for a 20 min private audience? And people actually reach into their pockets to pay this amount? Incredulous. 

 

For that, one could get a full week's Vajrayana intro retreat in some places, inclusive of meals, if not lodging as well. 

[C T]

Thanks to all the great replies!

Yeh the private session was for healing. She didn't mention any particular pathology that needed to be cure but I guess that everyone would give it a go after all the show and advertising of healing benefits (maybe no if the price was revelead in advance LOL)

About the practice lot of masters say that in the presence of him there are much more improvements that practicing alone as his energetic fields allow some changes in our energetic body. I think this is true but again I don't know what is the line between helping people and taking advantage over people in relation to the money asked.

As for healing... 300 is too little (not). He should have asked for 3000. For 10 minutes. And you know what? There will still be those who will allow themselves to be beguiled. 

[flowing hands]

Why waste your time? Tricks are for taking people in, creating great followings of deluded and fanatical 'students' and are against the Dao. Very few of these people are genuine and certainly many from China no longer have the teachings to get them to that level. One is better off giving the money to a charity that will do some good. If one has power, you have power there is no need for elaborate ceremony before performing the trick. As one can see there is little difference between this and a stage magician who builds up the atmosphere before deluding the audience.

[windwalker]

 

 

What do you think about it?

He should allow her to bring her to bring her own sand and stones...

Maybe his stones and sand is very special so he  has to charge high prices. 

Its not cheap...

Edited May 7, 2017 by windwalker

[RiverSnake]

A useful thread that had a similar focus: http://www.thedaobums.com/topic/43345-teachers-who-accept-money-vs-teachers-who-teach-for-free/?hl=%2Bteacher+%2Bmoney

[SeekerOfHealing]

He can take as much as he wants and as you are willing to pay. This is not the question. Question is what you actually paying for and how much you value. On free market such things are not a problem.

 

I can sell air if you are willing to buy it. (which some people actually doing)

 

If you want free teachings the dhamma is free but it will cost you.

 

"I always laugh when people tell me that spiritual teachings should be free. They are the most important thing in the universe, so of course “they should be free” … but who will support the teacher to do that? No one wants to volunteer on that side of the equation, which shows how much people really value them.

 

When I hear people say spiritual teachingsshould be free, I know the secret psychology hidden in their mind. Try asking them the following question and you’ll fathom it: “If they are so valuable to mankind and worth so much to others or you, what are YOU doing to support their existence other than to say they should be free? How much have you given to support and preserve them? What have you done?” When you get the answer, in most cases you’ll laugh because you’ll have figured out what’s going on."

Edited May 7, 2017 by SeekerOfHealing

[silent thunder]

what is value?  an idea.  one that varies with individuals and depends on perspective

 

what has value?  whatever individuals determine, seemingly based on desires, needs and aversions

 

what is money?  paper with numbers on it and metal coins.

is money valuable?  only in so far as I and others agree it has value and thus can exchange it for things that are useful.

 

value is an idea... money is an expression in form of this idea.

 

what is this paper and metal compared to a moment of expanded awareness?  compared to balanced health?

 

We all value money according to our solvency and our own principles of personal value and our personal story.

100 to me may be 10,000 to you... 10 to you may be 1,000,000 to me.  who knows?  who is wrong or right? 

 

 

To experience what I was 'taught' by Zhou Ting Jue and Wang Liping, I would pay 10x10x10.... but that is its value to me... no one else can tell me what that value is worth... they are not qualified observers.  Nor can I tell another what a teaching is worth, nor its real value to them, as I am not a qualified observer.

 

This goes for people who study different lineages from me, or no lineage at all.  Who am I to determine the value in another's life of their experience, or lack thereof?   Such presumption...

 

 

Looking back, what just these two men taught to me, is not necessarily what I learned, or took away from their teachings.  I have no idea what they set out to teach me... only what I gleened from my perceptions in their presence and through my shift in awareness.

 

Though I experienced being 'healed'.  I don't say they healed me.  The more perspective i garner by being removed from the teachings through the passage of time, it was not so much they were dispensing teachings to me, more like, in their presence, there were conditions that contributed to my awareness shifting and I am now aware of behaviors and practices that lay a sustainable foundation of health in my life, so that health is supported and maintained in every action.  Health and vitality naturally manifest and the imbalanced state is not present so no healing is required.

 

for me, this expansion of awareness... value beyond measure... how would I put a number on it.

I'd say it's worth is equal to love carried to the exponent of imagination.

 

How about all the lessons I've learned from sources that I cannot pay in money?  The root that saved my life while rock climbing, when it held my weight as I was falling to my death.  This root looked old and rotted and yet held my weight and supported me as I climbed to 'safety'.  It taught me not to assume by appearances the strength inside of something... what is this worth? 

 

Worth.  Value.  Money.  Insight.  Awareness.  Clarity.  Experience.  Gratitude.  Health. 

 

All of everything is shared every day in through and by a million sources inside and outside of my apparent self.

 

Value?  Yours...? mine... ?  we all belong to each other... we all are each other.

 

edit:  to reword opening statements.

Edited May 7, 2017 by silent thunder

[gendao]

Thanks to all the great replies!

Yeh the private session was for healing. She didn't mention any particular pathology that needed to be cure but I guess that everyone would give it a go after all the show and advertising of healing benefits (maybe no if the price was revelead in advance LOL)

About the practice lot of masters say that in the presence of him there are much more improvements that practicing alone as his energetic fields allow some changes in our energetic body. I think this is true but again I don't know what is the line between helping people and taking advantage over people in relation to the money asked.

Ah, OK well at least a healing would be far more useful than just chatting...

 

At that rate, it would be $16.50 USD/minute. I've actually known those who charge ~2-3X that. But needless to say, either rate is still very high.

 

As otherwise, bodywork in the US normally goes for about $1/min or less. But these sessions usually also have very weak therapeutic effects, if any.

 

And ultimately, what's important is the result of the treatment, not the amount of time spent. In fact, someone who can achieve the same result or better in the same amount of time or less - is actually a better healer.

 

So, best thing to do would be to get some feedback from others who have had his healing sessions before and then figure out whether or not it may be remotely worth trying?

 

Even if he is a good healer though, I would still recommend relying mostly on yourself to make your own gains. Because it's really just wayyyyyyy too much work to outsource to anyone else!!!

Edited May 8, 2017 by gendao

[CloudHands]

 

To experience what I was 'taught' by Zhou Ting Jue and Wang Liping, I would pay 10x10x10.... 

 

Hey ST, did you wrote about these experiences ? For what I have been reading about Liping that sounds... well... impressive. 

[silent thunder]

Hey ST, did you wrote about these experiences ? For what I have been reading about Liping that sounds... well... impressive. 

I only shared a couple of details regarding my time with Wang Liping in two different threads that were specifically asking questions about him and the retreats he holds... I don't recall their names.  One of those details was my realizing a few days into the retreat that my far-sightedness had corrected... when i hadn't even thought to list it as something I was seeking healing for when applying for the retreat.  The rest was just so intensely personal, even if I could put it into words, I don't know what possible value it would be for anyone else... more distracting than helpful I would think.

 

My time with both Master Wang and Master Zhou was paradigm shifting... paradigm shattering. 

 

I've shared many details, (mostly when in my early days posting), across various threads regarding my time with Zhou Ting-Jue and the experiences I had through him, though nothing comprehensive as in one thread, or one summed up comment.  

[Son Yu]

LOL i love all these answers!  My people! 

[Living]

I guess money and dhamma are different to money and healing or are they?

[Miroku]

Well I think that usually you can get a real thing for a penny or for free.

I honestly don't trust people promising too much for too much. And although I understand that masters have to take care of themselves and etc. I also know it is possible to not want thousands or hundreds for teachings and live happily.

[Sifu Eric Randolph]

This is a very interesting question.

You go to doctors for healing and they bandage and you pay thousands for just a consultation and a couple of pills. A teacher comes with specialised knowledge to assist you in transforming your life and it's not worth what's asked? Many real masters have spent hundreds of thousands of hours of studying very specific skill sets to defend and heal their own selves and found ways to teach you so you can do it in half the time it took them, especially if it works literally and is legitimate meaning once you've learned it you gained exactly what you came for, why wouldn't  you pay whatever is asked? it's not like the old ways where you stayed with the master washed his or her clothes bought their food cleaned their house, so why wouldn't you give top dollar for what you've received or are about to obtain? The blessing of learning from someone who has walked a particular path before you which you desire to obtain is that they save you time and mistakes. Granted they can't remove all the egoic obstacles and in a way they do because they've been there already, for instance The Iron palm teaches you how to align your body so that you can transfer energy into objects in such an exact way that nearly nothing can stand against it. For someone who has been physically abused and terrified to live once they find the master WILLING to teach them this. There is no amount of money that is not doable for that security. Also the master is now assisting the student through all their insecurities, through all their blockages, mental, emotional and physical which is a ton of work many many hours of tutelage and guidance. The masters skill is a priceless skill,  he could ask a million dollars a minute and it would be worth it.  This is for those of us who are real and give scientific measurable results. 

 

love and peace 

 

Sifu Eric 

Edited June 3, 2017 by Sifu Eric Randolph
spelling

[dawei]

The master should ask nothing; The student should give everything.

 

Then, the master should provide everything and the student should achieve nothing.

[Marblehead]

Wait a minute!  Did you read that 7 times?