ShouYi Posted May 8, 2017 Zhen (眞 / 真) is one of the most important word in the Daoist tradition. It appears for example in: zhenren Quanzhen xiuzhen (i.e. Xiuzhen Tu diagram, Liu Yiming' s work: Xiuzhen houbian), Chuzhen (The title of the second chapter of Huainanzi) What is the best English translation for this word in a Daoist context? (noun:) Perfection, Reality, Truth, (adj:) True, Authentic, Genuine? What does "zhen" mean in the Daoist tradition? Is this a different term for Dao? Why exactly this one? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Geof Nanto Posted May 8, 2017 There’s an amazing amount of information on this on Wikipedia under the heading Zhenren. Read it and you’ll be fully enlightened! Or, more simply, from Damo Mitchell…… Zhen真 is a difficult term to translate simply within the context of Daoism. The term forms part of the name for a high-level adept of the Daoist arts — a Zhen Ren 真人which is somebody who has managed to reach the stage of balancing the acquired mind and operating fully from the state of the congenital consciousness. Perhaps we could equate this with the term of ‘enlightenment' in other traditions, although this is not a word utilized in Daoism. A Zhen Ren is considered the highest possible level of attainment, within this world without ascending to the Heavenly realm as a Shen Xian, a divine immortal. The term Zhen Ren first appeared within the Dao De Jing and is a high aim of all forms of Daoist practice. 5 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Taoist Texts Posted May 9, 2017 What does "zhen" mean in the Daoist tradition? the true reality Is this a different term for Dao? Why exactly this one? Yes. Because everything else is false and unreal. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dawei Posted May 10, 2017 The term Zhen Ren first appeared within the Dao De Jing and is a high aim of all forms of Daoist practice. First appears in ZZ http://ctext.org/daoism?searchu=%E7%9C%9F%E4%BA%BA Translator is Legge. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Geof Nanto Posted May 10, 2017 Yes, it seems Damo Mitchell got that a little wrong. From Wikipedia ...... While the Dao De Jing has the first occurrences of zhen "true; real; etc.", the Zhuangzi has the first recorded usages of zhenren "true person". Later zhenren meanings are found in Buddhist and other texts. [in Daoism] Zhen 真 "true; real" ...is employed as a special term to contrast with the transitoriness and superficiality of "man-made" formalities. In this novel approach, "genuineness" is not understood as any sort of "unchanging reality," but rather has to do with change and "cultivation." The first time we encounter zhen in the Inner Chapters [Zhuangzi} is in the context of the flux and interrelatedness of life and death, where "genuineness" is something ever-present, yet without any apprehensible fixed "identity". I'm no expert on the Chinese language and only replied to ShouYi because no one else had. I'm glad though that I researched it a little as it's a very significant term in Daoism. Wang Bi for instance makes much use of it in his Daodejing commentary. Personally, as a single word translation, I like "authenticity" - though I agree with Damo Mitchell that any any simple translation is misleading. Best to form an image of Zhen from its early Daoist uses in the Daodejing and the Zhuangzi. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Taoist Texts Posted May 11, 2017 From Wikipedia ...... While the Dao De Jing has the first occurrences of zhen "true; real; etc.", the Zhuangzi has the first recorded usages of zhenren "true person". Actually a bunch of texts at least contemporaneous with ZZ or older do contain zhenren . Most notably Wenzi, Chuci, Heshangong Laozi, and Huangdi Neijing. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dawei Posted May 11, 2017 Actually a bunch of texts at least contemporaneous with ZZ or older do contain zhenren . Most notably Wenzi, Chuci, Heshangong Laozi, and Huangdi Neijing. yes, I decided not to note that.. but good someone did Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Geof Nanto Posted May 11, 2017 Hey you guys that's all in the Wikipedia article in much detail. Here are a few of the headings...... The Zhuangzi (ca. 3rd-2nd centuries BCE) has 66 occurrences of zhen, 19 of them in the compound zhenren. The Huainanzi (2nd century BCE) mentions zhenren "true person" 11 times. The southern Chuci (2nd century CE), which has Daoist elements although not strictly a "Daoist text", uses zhenren in two poems. The Daoist Liezi (ca. 4th century CE) uses zhenren in two chapters. The little-known Daoist text Wenzi has 17 occurrences of zhenren. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
