Taiji Master fighting MMA guy

[flowing hands]

20 hours ago, Nungali said:

Really ?  Tell me more. In my tradition which karate came out of, in  Okinawa ( before Funakoshi ) it  is based on a large component of white crane and they used to go and train in Southern China  at Fukien .

 

An early influence in its development was  via  Kusanku  ( Kwang Shang Fu )   lived in Fukien ( and most likely trained there ) before working in Okinawa as a Chinese envoy .  

 

Another major influence was through 'Chinto' , a Chinese  sailor / pirate , but it isnt clear if his origin is northern or southern.  The kata that represents some of his style ....  and that had no high kicks in it until Funakoshi added them and fiddled wiht the whole pattern and turned it into   Gankaku    (for   Japan )  and now supposedly relates to a ''crane on a rock'    (  which is all out of context, the central crane kata is Hakutsuru and Chinto is a close quarters / indoor /  holding high ground kata .   Although,  perhaps Funakoshi's  'rock'  represents the higher ground  ? )

 

Also, I thought the difference in white from black crane was that white had a lot of introduced grapple / throw  techniques, Okinawan  traditional karate also has this   ( but it was removed by Funakoshi  and replaced with series if obscure movements with no related bunkai taught .  )

 

I cant see a northern or black crane influence in any of this . 

 

 

 

 

If one looks at the various styles of Karate, one can see the evidence of white crane and many have this as part of their symbol. Black Crane from the northern Shaolin has more kicking and this can be seen in some styles. Basically Japanese martial arts were heavily influenced by Chinese MA. In my own lineage, Daoist arts started many, many years before Shaolin and have nothing to do with India and Shaolin, but were the result of original invention.

[Nungali]

21 hours ago, C T said:

me no scholar too 

not much i know about the historical derivatives of karate except that its true origin is said to be India, thanks to Bodhidharma for doing what he does best, its now established in Japan. But the Japanese seldom mention Karate's history that far back. 

 

I am to know that 'Kara' means 'empty' and 'te' means 'hand'. 

 

 

 

 

 

It should be realised that much of 'karate'   is balderdash .    Due to the following main dynamics.

 

Its real form ( eg.  Matsamura Soken   the personal bodyguard of the last 3 Okinawan Kings -  during this period they were denied weapons, so had to be able to defend King bare handed -  except the 'tessan' a small ornamental iron 'fan', part of the 'nobles attire ' - and after Comm, Perry , also against guns . )   That system was disbanded .   Matsamura Soken ( Bushi  Matsamura )  was out of a job and the Samurai rank disbanded . His main student introduced 'karate' to schools as P.E. system ( so it was really changed and toned down ).  Funakoshi learnt  this form from those guys and took it Japan and changed it more.

 

BUT  he preserved the real form (and no doubt, some others did too ) for himself and family protection and instruction ,  first to nephew Nabe Soken and he passed it onto Hohan Soken . Hohan Soken took this form and moved to Sth America and started teaching some this original form there .

 

meanwhile, back in Okinawa Its origins, reality and most of the masters of its original form  were obliterated by the US forces including during occupation ( which still continues ) . 

 

Then the invaders wanted the defeated to teach them their 'secret' fighting techniques .  What they  actually were taught  ... well, putting the story together, one can imagine .... what secret fighting techniques would YOU show to the people that just wiped out your village and family ?  Tough call !  They didnt want to starve either and may have had some family left that needed feeding. 

 

What they got they took back to America got turned into a sport with more rules, competition and changes  ... even their basic understanding was wrong ( see  youtube below) .

 

Then Hohan Soken come back to Okinawa, sees all these people doing 'karate'  and he ... WTF     is that ?! 

 

So he took on a few he could trust   ( see the rest of the story and who these people were  on Wiki article on Hohan Soken  - my tradition comes through  the Theodore Lange mentioned, also there are articles on the others named above for further ref . )

 

So, what I do, I hesitate to call karate ....   nearly all my kata is different ....  NO ONE  does Passai ( Bassai ) Dai  like my  group , even  clubs called ' Shorin-ryu  Matsamura '    ....   However  one vid of 'Shorin-Ryu Matsamura Seito  Passai Dai  shows it ,  vid of Hohan Soken doing Passai Dai  shows it  - no one else .   Seito, means 'in the family ' or the tradition of a family ; it went from Hohan Soken as 'head' to Kosei Nishihira . Sensia passed away a few years back leaving no real heir in the family (although others outside family are trying to claim it ) ... so, no more Seito  continuity . 

 

Anywayzzz ,        I stumbled upon this on the net the other day , very interesting listening   VERY   .... and seems to affirm all I have heard , know and some things in practice ... it comes form Dillman .... of all people     ....  but I gave him a chance and decided to listen    ....... yup  ,    I'll give him that one .   This affirmed what I had found out previously and heard the same words echoed by Sensia  Nishihira  .....  especially Bunkai  . 

 

 

 

[Nungali]

22 hours ago, C T said:

me no scholar too 

ot much i know about the historical derivatives of karate except that its true origin is said to be India,

 

 

If I do a move that is too hard to explain here    ....   its a bunkai from Hukatsuru  crane form -  HOhan Soken central kata , it has an unusual kick with the eye strike ( from close wings open wings move off line and kick , but  all at once )  , from the side around the others leg to the groin , when I snap my leg back after the kick, I  end up i near this posture ; 

 

[C T]

Hope you won't be standing on your neighbour's kid, or your dog, at any point during your kata 

[Nungali]

and I also just noticed   .... no , I dont grow an extra arm     

[C T]

1 hour ago, Nungali said:

and I also just noticed   .... no , I dont grow an extra arm     

.. or two, actually 

[Marblehead]

3 hours ago, Nungali said:

 

If I do a move that is too hard to explain here    ....   its a bunkai from Hukatsuru  crane form -  HOhan Soken central kata , it has an unusual kick with the eye strike ( from close wings open wings move off line and kick , but  all at once )  , from the side around the others leg to the groin , when I snap my leg back after the kick, I  end up i near this posture ; 

 

 

Having four arms would give you a distinct advantage.

 

[Starjumper]

4 hours ago, Nungali said:

Then the invaders wanted the defeated to teach them their 'secret' fighting techniques .  What they  actually were taught  ... well, putting the story together, one can imagine .... what secret fighting techniques would YOU show to the people that just wiped out your village and family ?  Tough call !  They didnt want to starve either and may have had some family left that needed feeding. 

 

What they got they took back to America got turned into a sport with more rules, competition and changes  ... even their basic understanding was wrong ( see  youtube below) .

 

This helps explain why my teacher and his student, Bruce Lee, were shocked at the crudeness and stupidity of Karate they saw in the US and wanted to demonstrate how cool kung fu is in comparison.  Thanks

[dwai]

9 hours ago, Nungali said:

and I also just noticed   .... no , I dont grow an extra arm     

Regarding "the extra arms"...in taijiquan, we have to pick two points and project our mind out between the two points to support  the energy + physical body. This is done in order to form a large background against which we can use both as a launching platform as well as counterbalance. Furthermore,  It could be simultaneously be vertical, horizontal and the energy is projected in the 3rd perpendicular plane (x, y and z axes). 

 

The Nataraja (the dancing Shiva form you posted earlier) contains the martial arts of India, codified in the 3000-4000 year old text called the "Natya Shastra" composed by the Sage Bharata. "Natya" means "performing arts" and is rooted in the sanskrit word "Nrt" which means "Dance".  This book has many martial techniques which were codified in Lord Shiva's famous dance of "tandava" (the dance of destruction). 

 

This is still living in various martial arts/dance traditions of india, albeit the more internal aspects are only known to a few masters, passed down over the ages orally (in family lineages).

[Nungali]

Ahhhh  ... dance !    Thats why I used to like female aikido students, the majority would get that part of it , while the majority of guys would try to turn what I showed them into force. 

 

I smile when I see the Okinawans dance ... the hop around like a little smiling puppet, especially the  elderly .  Their most common  dance move is suspiciously like something else ;  the opening bunkai set of mabudhinogata , a staff disarming move  where one ends up with one end of the staff making an arm bar and the other shoved up into your gunties  and your head forced down low for that 'dainty little '  kick they do at the end. 

 

Must be a coincidence ... surely they are not referring to that when they see a tourist and do this little dance and smile at them ? 

 

 

[Nungali]

Off topic ....  but      

 

 

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=saJISzXUSFk

 

 

(Ohhh ....  doesnt new format throw up the Vid automatically by posting the address  ?  )

 

 

 

Edited May 20, 2017 by Nungali

[Sudhamma]

Just read from a Chinese daily this morning that that same MMA guy floored a baquazhang practitioner in slightly less than 3 minutes.

[Nungali]

Saw one do the same with a ' street fighter ' .   Big muscle dickhead is harassing guy and his GF in street. they try to walk away but he  stops them. Then onlooker asks what his problem is  .....  abuse  swearing ....  onlooker goes  'Are you just out for a fight then ? "

 

"Yes ! "

 

" All right ... fight me . "    .... that made him pause     

 

Onlooker gets in an early thigh kick ,    ouch ! but he irgnores it ... then another one ... damn !  ... then the third made him flinch ... soon as he flinched , onlooker closed  drove him back into a parked car , front bear hug  followed by hip throw ... on to the concrete .

 

Finished . 

[Nungali]

 

Edited May 23, 2017 by Nungali

[Nungali]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Rn8KpY6-sI

 

 

Edited May 23, 2017 by Nungali

[Nungali]

Hmmmmm ... vids dont load  ...  AGAIN ! 

[Kar3n]

34 minutes ago, Nungali said:

Hmmmmm ... vids dont load  ...  AGAIN ! 

Copy and paste the video URL from your browser address bar directly into the text box without using any formatting tools.

 

If you go back to edit your previous video posts, double click the link, a box will pop up with link formatting. Click remove link, save your changes and your video should pop up.

[dwai]

16 hours ago, Nungali said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Rn8KpY6-sI

 

 

Look at this one, where one guy is using bagua to fight. He's circling the opponent, not standing still like a boxing dummy! 

 

 

[Seatle185]

Im wondering where they are digging up these "fighters" . It seems like theyre picking the worst possible candidates to represent these arts haha and doubtful they have studied or trained realistically. . It does almost seem like propoganda haha. Theyve tried to extinguish these arts for so long, what a great way to get rid of them once and for all.

 

Then again most people  i know who study IMA arent only doing it for fighting, at first they were drawn into it because of the martial side but stayed after seeing how deep it actually goes. And i think thats the way its been for a long time. People would come to deepen their martial abilities but learned theres alot more to it than just that. but i think alot of the younger generations will look at filmed fights like that and think its completely useless and won't want to bother with it at all leading to them dissapearing with no new people to keep passing them on to future generations :/..hopefully not though 

 

If you take out the martial art from internal martial arts then it would be just another qigong system. Which would still be beneficial, but it would take away from the complete approach that ima's offer in my opinion.  

 

I know alot of serious practitioners see these videos and dont put much stock into them, but non practitioners see it and unfortunately conclude the entire system is useless weather practiced for health, or fighting, or spirituality.  

 

 

Edited May 23, 2017 by Seatle185

[Marblehead]

18 hours ago, Nungali said:

 

The Kung Fu "Master" didn't do anything.  That was total bullshit.

[dwai]

3 hours ago, Seatle185 said:

Im wondering where they are digging up these "fighters" . It seems like theyre picking the worst possible candidates to represent these arts haha and doubtful they have studied or trained realistically. . It does almost seem like propoganda haha. Theyve tried to extinguish these arts for so long, what a great way to get rid of them once and for all.

 

Then again most people  i know who study IMA arent only doing it for fighting, at first they were drawn into it because of the martial side but stayed after seeing how deep it actually goes. And i think thats the way its been for a long time. People would come to deepen their martial abilities but learned theres alot more to it than just that. but i think alot of the younger generations will look at filmed fights like that and think its completely useless and won't want to bother with it at all leading to them dissapearing with no new people to keep passing them on to future generations :/..hopefully not though 

 

If you take out the martial art from internal martial arts then it would be just another qigong system. Which would still be beneficial, but it would take away from the complete approach that ima's offer in my opinion.  

 

I know alot of serious practitioners see these videos and dont put much stock into them, but non practitioners see it and unfortunately conclude the entire system is useless weather practiced for health, or fighting, or spirituality.  

 

 

The UFC and other pro MMA companies have been trying to make inroads into China. I won't be surprised if this was part of a hostile propaganda.

 

[Sudhamma]

Respect has to be earned. Touting one's own 'fantastic' martial abilities only invites challengers like the bout between that Taijichuan master, Lei-lei and the MMA fighter. From what I understood from the dailies was that the Taijichuan master boasted of his ability to smash a melon with one downward palm strike, and that he would not allow a bird to lift off from his open palm (something like Yang Luchuan's skill) and the MMA fighter wanted to test and unmask that claim. And so they had a 10 sec fight and a fall from that pedestal of one 'supposedly' renowned martial artist. Similarly, in the '70s, we saw the dismantling and banning of Falungong in China because of the supernatural claims made by the followers and the founder. Closer to home, my sifu told me a story in the '60s of a challenge thrown by a Southern Shaolin martial artist to Bei P'ai MA, that all bei p'ai was "flowery fists and embroidered feet", meaning good to see, but impractical and useless. My sifu went to meet that guy and all settled in 10 secs with the Southern Shaolin MA eating the humble pie.

 

A martial arts style/school is not unlike any schools teaching academic subjects. If there was a crook or swindler who was educated in a particular school was caught by the Law, did not automatically mean, that that particular school's education system was fake and produced crooks and swindlers. Its the person, not the system that is being assessed.

Edited May 24, 2017 by Sudhamma

[Daeluin]

Indeed, the celestial mechanism requires our respect before it will work with us. 

Presuming one can do anything at any time will get one into hot water eventually. 

Not all time is equal. 

[Gerard]

On 24/05/2017 at 8:41 AM, Seatle185 said:

If you take out the martial art from internal martial arts then it would be just another qigong system. Which would still be beneficial, but it would take away from the complete approach that ima's offer in my opinion.  

 

Hi friend,

 

Not it quite right. You have started learning Bagua recently. You'll see after a decade of practice what this art is going to do to you and around you.

 

 

On 24/05/2017 at 8:41 AM, Seatle185 said:

 

I know alot of serious practitioners see these videos and dont put much stock into them, but non practitioners see it and unfortunately conclude the entire system is useless weather practiced for health, or fighting, or spirituality.  

 

 

 

 

100% correct. Let those arts sort out the wheat from the chaff. It has always been like that. And when it comes to Bagua,  all those practitioners who are constantly thinking  and wanting to fight can't walk the circle correctly. It's like a golden rule! 

 

Be well.

[Marblehead]

On ‎5‎/‎24‎/‎2017 at 0:22 AM, Sudhamma said:

Respect has to be earned.

That's the bottom line, isn't it?