Taiji Master fighting MMA guy

[Sublimation]

Hello people,

I have found this video about a Taiji Master losing a short fight to a MMA fighter.

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/05/10/world/asia/mma-martial-arts-china-tai-chi.html?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur&referer=http%3A%2F%2Fm.facebook.com

People will tend to think that the chinese arts are a fraud and not effective anymore. But isn't it that the mysticism around all these chinese martial arts that makes it look stupid. I always had the feeling that when I did Kung-Fu or Bagua in my early years it wasn't about the fighting itself but the practice and concentrating on the moment. I really enjoyed walking circles or standing like a tree and doing the forms. I doubt that the guy in the video who calls himself a taiji master is a real master. I don't think that chinese martial arts has any chance vs. the newer styles because why? Science. Why would there be anyone that thinks an old style that never was updated or added new parts has any chance to beat newer styles that studied other martial arts? These old styles have no chance on a competitive level and anyone who drives for that will fail.

What are your thoughts on this video?

[Sublimation]

Oh sorry just found that someone else already was posting about this topic i think it can be closed then

[Zhongyongdaoist]

Actually Sublimation, one of the problems of the first post, and I think subsequent posts on the thread you mention, is that it does not link to the original video, and thus provide us with the means analyzing the match that caused all of the commotion about this.  I think in posting this you have done us a service and I suggest keeping this up, I will link it to the other thread, and that thread to this one.  This is the present thread dealing with the topic:

UFC Fighter Says He Will Defend Tai Chi

[silent thunder]

For me, it's not about styles, even when I was saturating myself in them.  I never was much for any declarations of the superiority of one set of moves over another.  For me it's all about the two beings in the match.

 

 

The awareness and presence which translate for me into the speed and the power.  Awareness brings speed of reaction to stiumuli and presence is developed with practice of any form in depth and becomes the power associated with the speed.

 

The fist is visible, the strike is not visible.  kind of sounds like what I'm trying to say.

 

I dont' think there is anything superior in one set of moves over another... it all depends on the situation and the people involved.  Awareness and presence.

 

To say 'this style' is superior to 'that style' assumes that these styles are things... which they are not.  None of the styles exist,  except as fluid motions in a living being that is always adapting in the moment... there is no innate superiority or concrete nature of one set of movements over another, to me... only the endless varying outcome of combinations of movements made by living beings, within a setting.  Change the setting, change the beings and the effectiveness alters...

 

To me, watching matches in rings with rules... and then deducing that this style is better than another style...

 

this to me is an example of looking at the finger and missing the heavenly glory.

[Taomeow]

What are your thoughts on this video?

 

This is what happens in the era of labels mistaken for phenomena. 

 

So Mr. Wei Lei thought what he had was "taiji."  And now the world has been misinformed because what he has is not taiji, and whatever it is he has proved inefficient, yet the world has been led to the conclusion that it is taiji that is inefficient.   

 

There's no such thing as "thunder style taiji."  Mr. Wei Lei is a practitioner of something someone labeled "thunder style taiji," which is not taiji.  I have no idea what it is and what it's for.

Edited May 11, 2017 by Taomeow

[Zhongyongdaoist]

We live in ridiculous times.  

 

Gosh, that would be a more horrifying curse than the old Chinese curse, "May you live in interesting times".  Scary!

[Seatle185]

For me, it's not about styles, even when I was saturating myself in them. I never was much for any declarations of the superiority of one set of moves over another. For me it's all about the two beings in the match.

Yes i aggree. I think he is one of many taiji masters today who presumes upon his power. Some guys have never been into a actual fight but think because theyve done the form everyday for years diligently and practice push hands they can dominate anyone with ease. Not saying these practices arent important but most classes arent focused on the fighting as much. Nothing wrong with it but dont challenge a guy whos spent almost all his life sparring and fighting if you havent sparred yourself. I do beleive the internal arts can give you an advantage if trained right. Taiji is one of those that is thought to take a relatively long amount of time compared to others before you should even think about using it in a real fight. Taiji doesnt leave the door til ten years... this video is a good wake up call to taiji practitioners/teachers in my opinion. It really helps humble yourself and can upgrade your practice if your a practitioner. I havent heard of thunder taiji either. I wonder what it is

[Taomeow]

And for perspective -- here's is a real-life fight where taiji is used indeed: 

 

 

In Chen style form, this move is known as "brush knee."  It has many applications, this is one of them.  But more importantly, watch the attitude of the taiji guy in the beginning of the confrontation.  He hides (not flaunts!!) his skill, and avoids rather than seeks escalation -- till the bully mistakes this attitude for weakness and attacks.  Then the skill spontaneously explodes. 

 

This is taiji. 

Edited May 11, 2017 by Taomeow

[Seatle185]

And for perspective -- this is a real-life fight where taiji is used indeed:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fs_kdGe8Ljc

 

In Chen style taiji form, this move is known as "brush knee." It has many applications, this is one of them. But more importantly, watch the attitude of the taiji guy in the beginning of the confrontation. He hides (not flaunts!!) his skill, and avoids rather than seeks escalation -- till the bully mistakes this attitude for weakness and attacks. Then the skill spontaneously explodes.

 

This is taiji.

Thank you, yes this is what i feel most of the masters are like. They dont feel they need to prove themselves. And after he puts the guy down he doesnt jump on him and start hitting his head.. he offers his hand to help him up!

[Nungali]

[Michael Sternbach]

Hello people,

I have found this video about a Taiji Master losing a short fight to a MMA fighter.

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/05/10/world/asia/mma-martial-arts-china-tai-chi.html?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur&referer=http%3A%2F%2Fm.facebook.com

People will tend to think that the chinese arts are a fraud and not effective anymore. But isn't it that the mysticism around all these chinese martial arts that makes it look stupid.

Depends on what you are referring to by 'mysticism'. If you mean the idea that the practice of these arts will make one invincible, then yes.

 

I always had the feeling that when I did Kung-Fu or Bagua in my early years it wasn't about the fighting itself but the practice and concentrating on the moment. I really enjoyed walking circles or standing like a tree and doing the forms.

That depends on the school. Many people practice an internal art just as a form of meditation and/or health practice rather than as a system of fighting, and that's okay, as long as the practitioner doesn't think this will turn him into Bruce Lee.

 

I doubt that the guy in the video who calls himself a taiji master is a real master. I don't think that chinese martial arts has any chance vs. the newer styles because why? Science. Why would there be anyone that thinks an old style that never was updated or added new parts has any chance to beat newer styles that studied other martial arts? These old styles have no chance on a competitive level and anyone who drives for that will fail.

What are your thoughts on this video?

Actually, what I observed in a number of Chinese and Japanese is rather the opposite: The most effective stuff has been taken out of the system and is no longer taught (or at best marginally) - usually as part of an endeavour to turn these warrior arts into socially more acceptable sports.

[Michael Sternbach]

While the individual traits of a fighter matter more than anything else, there are differences between styles to be factored in. Some styles are more practical than others. Not only as far as the way they are fighting, but also regarding training methods.

[Gerard]

If you think IMA at the high level are for fighting you are wrong. They are devastating! But someone of that level is not remotely interested in showing such a skill in a scheduled fight. You would have transcended your ego...maybe in traditional China with bandits roaming the land, constant warfare but those times are gone and fighting back then would be a matter of a life and death scenario not to prove better than you or my art is the real deal and yours sucks.

 

Refer to this excellent book written by Alex Kozma if you are keen to know:

 

http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/16198201-warrior-guards-the-mountain#

 

I have met He Jinghai in real life. He is such a sweet guy and a real gentleman and you wouldn't like to mess up with him at any level.

 

Bagua and Tai Chi are very deep and life transforming arts, why would you want to waste for time fighting when you can aim for more noble goals...including becoming a real good person (pre-Heaven state of mind).

Edited May 12, 2017 by Gerard

[windwalker]

Hello people,

 

I have found this video about a Taiji Master losing a short fight to a MMA fighter.

 

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/05/10/world/asia/mma-martial-arts-china-tai-chi.html?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur&referer=http%3A%2F%2Fm.facebook.com

 

People will tend to think that the chinese arts are a fraud and not effective anymore. But isn't it that the mysticism around all these chinese martial arts that makes it look stupid. I always had the feeling that when I did Kung-Fu or Bagua in my early years it wasn't about the fighting itself but the practice and concentrating on the moment. I really enjoyed walking circles or standing like a tree and doing the forms. I doubt that the guy in the video who calls himself a taiji master is a real master. I don't think that chinese martial arts has any chance vs. the newer styles because why? Science. Why would there be anyone that thinks an old style that never was updated or added new parts has any chance to beat newer styles that studied other martial arts? These old styles have no chance on a competitive level and anyone who drives for that will fail.

 

What are your thoughts on this video?

That if ones practice depends on what happens in video of another's practice they might want to rethink what they'er really practicing for.  Everyone has to find and answer their own questions...As to the other points, I feel it really depends on depth, level and reason for ones practice.  If one intends to swim with the sharks, one should make sure they understand whether they'er a shark or shark food.

https://journeytoemptiness.com/2017/05/10/beginnings/

 

This talks a little about how I answered my own questions

Edited May 12, 2017 by windwalker

[Mig]

If you think IMA at the high level are for fighting you are wrong. They are devastating! But someone of that level is not remotely interested in showing such a skill in a scheduled fight. You would have transcended your ego...maybe in traditional China with bandits roaming the land, constant warfare but those times are gone and fighting back then would be a matter of a life and death scenario not to prove better than you or my art is the real deal and yours sucks.

 

Refer to this excellent book written by Alex Kozma if you are keen to know:

 

http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/16198201-warrior-guards-the-mountain#

 

I have met He Jinghai in real life. He is such a sweet guy and a real gentleman and you wouldn't like to mess up with him at any level.

 

Bagua and Tai Chi are very deep and life transforming arts, why would you want to waste for time fighting when you can aim for more noble goals...including becoming a real good person (pre-Heaven state of mind).

How do we know they are devastating? All those arts are to be respected but can not be glorified as devastating fighting arts just like individuals. Those days of hearsay and stories are gone. We know better now.

[Michael Sternbach]

How do we know they are devastating? All those arts are to be respected but can not be glorified as devastating fighting arts just like individuals. Those days of hearsay and stories are gone. We know better now.

 

If you say so.

 

[Mig]

If you say so.

 

I am talking about experience. Late Erle didn't have the best reputation and known for his theories on Dim Mak and vital point striking. It was laughable. Many people in the martial arts world didn't agree with his methods and conclusions and there were valid reasons. As I said, we know better today in terms of fighting for real not those devastating techniques in fighting that I heard in the 60s and 70s.

[C T]

I am talking about experience. Late Erle didn't have the best reputation and known for his theories on Dim Mak and vital point striking. It was laughable. Many people in the martial arts world didn't agree with his methods and conclusions and there were valid reasons. As I said, we know better today in terms of fighting for real not those devastating techniques in fighting that I heard in the 60s and 70s.

What you heard is definitely not all there is. 

[Michael Sternbach]

I am talking about experience. Late Erle didn't have the best reputation and known for his theories on Dim Mak and vital point striking. It was laughable. Many people in the martial arts world didn't agree with his methods and conclusions and there were valid reasons. As I said, we know better today in terms of fighting for real not those devastating techniques in fighting that I heard in the 60s and 70s.

Well, like every person of renown, Erle had both supporters and opponents, of course.

 

But it's very easy to say that 'his theories on Dim Mak and vital point striking (why 'and'? What's the difference between the two?) were laughable', and to mention 'valid reasons' against them, without explaining what those were. What is it that, in your opinion, we know better today?

[CloudHands]

And for perspective -- here's is a real-life fight where taiji is used indeed: 

 

 

In Chen style form, this move is known as "brush knee."  It has many applications, this is one of them.  But more importantly, watch the attitude of the taiji guy in the beginning of the confrontation.  He hides (not flaunts!!) his skill, and avoids rather than seeks escalation -- till the bully mistakes this attitude for weakness and attacks.  Then the skill spontaneously explodes. 

 

This is taiji. 

 

Thank you !

[thelerner]

Perhaps 40 years from now upon meeting again the Tai Chi master will jog up to the MMA fighter, kick their cane away and shout 'I win!' then quickly jog away.  Ten years after that show up at the MMA fighter's funeral, look down at the casket and say 'I win again'. 

 

 

Some victories are more important then others.

[Mig]

And for perspective -- here's is a real-life fight where taiji is used indeed: 

 

 

In Chen style form, this move is known as "brush knee."  It has many applications, this is one of them.  But more importantly, watch the attitude of the taiji guy in the beginning of the confrontation.  He hides (not flaunts!!) his skill, and avoids rather than seeks escalation -- till the bully mistakes this attitude for weakness and attacks.  Then the skill spontaneously explodes. 

 

This is taiji. 

It is not only Taiji. This same technique is used in other martial arts and it is a natural reaction of someone who knew how to defend himself. I don't see this perspective in regards of the taiji master and the mma fighter

Edited May 14, 2017 by Mig

[Michael Sternbach]

It is not only Taiji. This same technique is used in other martial arts and it is a natural reaction of someone who knew how to defend himself. I don't see this perspective in regards of the taiji master and the mma fighter

It can be a natural reaction for somebody trained in an art that teaches this particular technique. That there is a similar move i.e. in Aikido doesn't diminish Taiji at all. In fact, you will be hard pressed to find any technique that is unique to a particular art.

[lifeforce]

If you think IMA at the high level are for fighting you are wrong. They are devastating! But someone of that level is not remotely interested in showing such a skill in a scheduled fight. You would have transcended your ego...maybe in traditional China with bandits roaming the land, constant warfare but those times are gone and fighting back then would be a matter of a life and death scenario not to prove better than you or my art is the real deal and yours sucks.

 

Refer to this excellent book written by Alex Kozma if you are keen to know:

 

http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/16198201-warrior-guards-the-mountain#

 

I have met He Jinghai in real life. He is such a sweet guy and a real gentleman and you wouldn't like to mess up with him at any level.

 

Bagua and Tai Chi are very deep and life transforming arts, why would you want to waste for time fighting when you can aim for more noble goals...including becoming a real good person (pre-Heaven state of mind).

I've met, and trained with Alex Kozma, and I've never experienced anything like his power from any martial artist. He demonstrated one technique on me where he lightly struck me in the chest with his palm. I literally flew across the room and slammed into the wall at the opposite side, all air leaving my lungs at the same time. Otherworldly and incredible.

[Nungali]

 

 

 

something about the  vid title and  ....    his apparent  lack of eyes  .....