Is Tai chi fake?

[windwalker]

I have yet to read anything that qualifies this guy has a Tai Chi Master. He may be just someone who studies taiji and teaches taiji but has not yet mastered it.

 

The fact that he lost a match has nothing to do with taiji. Taiji is an understanding of principles based on the study of taiji.  It would seem that this man's understanding of taiji is not quite what he feels it is.

[windwalker]

If someone was driving a race car and lost a race or crashed the car. Would we then say a car was no good or the driver had no skill.  

 

A Highly-skilled driver can win a race with a poorly designed car.  The best car cannot make up for lack of skill from a poor driver. 

Edited May 20, 2017 by windwalker

[Marblehead]

My Tai Chi is so bad I would have just pulled my .38 and shoot the MMA guy before he got close enough to hit me.

 

Edited May 24, 2017 by Marblehead

[Purple Gold Qilin]

Taichiquan isnt fake just a lot of fake teachers....Ya know the teachers who care nothing of fame trophies admiration and money often come across to the average person as an asshole.....

[[email protected]]

On ‎20‎.‎05‎.‎2017 at 4:31 PM, Purple Gold Qilin said:

Taichiquan isnt fake just a lot of fake teachers....Ya know the teachers who care nothing of fame trophies admiration and money often come across to the average person as an asshole.....

 

Can we count such person as a Tao chi master? Tao chi assumes inner harmony cultivation while this case shows the opposite.

[Marblehead]

Well, my Two Sword Tai Chi isn't fake.  I have already killed one lamp shade while practicing in the house.

 

But I will admit that practicing with real carbon/steel full length double-edged swords is demanding on the wrists and forearms.

 

 

[cold]

Thanks for the laugh!

[Mig]

On 5/20/2017 at 3:41 AM, Marblehead said:

My Tai Chi is so bad I would have just pulled my .38 and shot the MMA guy before he got close enough to hit me.

 

Watch out it doesn't work always even if you pull a colt short or long range

[Mig]

Here something that many people don't like to hear or don't want to hear or don't want to admit

 

 

[thelerner]

Without full contact/ street level sparring, you simply don't know how you'll handle yourself in a real fight.  Perhaps not even then.  Pre-rehearsed practice, where you know what's coming and you're in a comfortable dojo with friends imo doesn't prepare you for the street.  It may help, but unless you have dozens (or hundreds) of hours of free sparring, you're at a disadvantage. 

 

imo, A 'master' who performs miracles against his students, even high level ones, has no guarantee he can perform them in real combat.

 

On the other hand I've practiced with some who seem to create there own time and space around themselves and they are probably pretty street sound. 

 

 

[[email protected]]

11 hours ago, thelerner said:

Without full contact/ street level sparring, you simply don't know how you'll handle yourself in a real fight.

 

imo, A 'master' who performs miracles against his students, even high level ones, has no guarantee he can perform them in real combat.

 

That's absolutely correct. Lets assume streets fights to be a kind of "testing" of the martial system, independently of whether its Chinese one or European, traditional or new mixed one. But again, this shows only one aspect of the system - its efficiency in the street. And this "test" will never show hidden values of it. F.e. tai chi gas a hidden layout like qi circulation - how can we see this benefit?

Rgrds, Ilya

[Purple Gold Qilin]

On 5/24/2017 at 1:37 AM, [email protected] said:

 

Can we count such person as a Tao chi master? Tao chi assumes inner harmony cultivation while this case shows the opposite.

 

Yes I didnt say the master was being an asshole just that he can come off that way to people seeking fame trophies admiration and money. A true master wold only care about the development and perpetuation of taichi and thus only students looking to do the same will like what he says and follow him.

 

This is very tao.

 

also this http://www.chandao.co.uk/shaolin-monk-shi-yan-jue-formally-challenges-xu-xiaodong-of-mma.html

Edited May 25, 2017 by Purple Gold Qilin

[Sudhamma]

How much time is needed to be trained to be a proficient fighter using Taijichuan? How true is that Taijichuan is a deadly martial arts designed for self-defence whereas, MMA is a sport, thus there is no 'comparison' between them? Where are all the attacks to pressure points to demolish the opponent? Where is the qi in the moment of need?

 

Given to today's life-style and time, it is true that to be proficient in Taijichuan in martial applications takes many, many years. In 19th Century Qing China, a young man spent 5 long years, training almost 24/7 in Chenjiakou's Chen-jia taijichuan as a stay-in disciple. Except for the Lunar New Year holidays, he trained daily at the break of dawn. In those feudal days, Taijichaun was never a sport like today, nor was it taught like today. At the end of the 5 year stint, his sifu told him that he had learnt all that was to be taught and was asked to leave the village. That young man was Yang Luchuan who made a name for himself in Peking (now Beijing) defeating all challengers and well known for his 'listening' jing which he demonstrated by not allowing a bird to lift off from his opened palm. This was the feat that the recently defeated Taijichuan master, Wei Lei Lei boasted to have mastered and Xu Xaodong, the MMA fighter wanted to prove that the former was a fraud.

 

Whether or not a single strike could kill or maim the opponent depends on the control and intent of the martial artist. Likewise, can MMA techniques kill the opponent? Sure, why not with sufficient force and at the right spot. With deadly intent, MMA is no longer a sport. For a matured internal MA practitioner, qi is always present and is raised when mental intent Yi, is triggered; and mental intent is automatically raised by perception of an incoming attack or in executing an aggressive or defensive move. There is no conscious thinking to move the qi to anywhere in the body. Like a adrenaline rush. Its humbug that qi needs to be settled or channeled before a fight. However, qi can be prevented from rising because of fear. Fear happens when the fighter has not enough fight experience. So, the three pre-requisites of a good fighter: firstly, he must be bold, secondly, he must have strength and stamina, and lastly, he must be able to use his martial arts, kungfu. Yes, kungfu comes last.

Edited May 26, 2017 by Sudhamma

[Starjumper]

Some of this is heading off into the boonies.  With the deadliest arts there is NO sparring, ever.  If you are trained for a fight to only last one second and most of your movements are automatic and deadly then you just do not have sparring in your system, it is too dangerous.  All there is is push hands and the practicing of techniques.  

 

Big tough fighters used to come from around the country to attack my applications teacher, Dave, who was advanced enough to put people down without hurting them and I would say he was probably more effective at the subtle stuff than his kung fu brother, Bruce, was.  It is obvious, when you see what happens, that as soon as the attacker moves that he becomes completely lost.  I asked Dave about why not go to an MMA match and show them the real thing.  He said that if the master won then people would say that he was bad because the mean old master hurt the widdle Lummox.  If the Lummox won then people would say he was bad because he beat up an old man. So it's a no win situation.  Dave also said that we do not want fighters to see our methods because then possibly they could develope techniques to defend themselves against them.

 

Really what it comes down to is things like rules and other stuff, other stuff like:  on the street if you throw someone on the ground hard enough, which is how we often do it, a person can smash their skull like a watermelon ( a useful technique to end a fight), but if you throw them down in the ring they'll just bounce right off the springy floor unhurt and come at you again, which makes it a useless technique.  Also we are advised to throw people in front of oncoming busses or against masonry walls.  If you smash someones face against a brick wall and then slide their face down the wall it's called Face Eraser.  Not allowed in the ring.

Edited May 26, 2017 by Starjumper

[Marblehead]

13 minutes ago, Starjumper said:

 Also we are advised to throw people in front of oncoming busses ...

I never learned that one.  Sounds like it would be effective.

 

[Starjumper]

2 minutes ago, Marblehead said:

I never learned that one.  Sounds like it would be effective.

 

 

Ya  =) , it's inconvenient to practice that one.

[Marblehead]

Yeah, it's difficult to find busses in the jungle.

 

[Starjumper]

1 hour ago, Marblehead said:

Yeah, it's difficult to find busses in the jungle.

 

 

There are some busses in the jungle, the more difficult part is getting someone to attack you right when a bus is coming.

 

Dave said:  "If you break your (practice) partner then you don't get a new one."

 

Actually my property borders the Pan American highway, which around here is a little two lane mountain country road, but that is on the outside of the volcano crater, here inside the crater it's like being in the middle of nowhere.

Edited May 26, 2017 by Starjumper

[cold]

My uncle a peace officer wasn't afraid of much, he served in the navy during WW2 afterwards joining the Detroit Mi. police.

( In between the riots from time to time the motor city was called the murder city.) First day on the job he answered a call for a rabid dog. Shot the crazed beast three times with the city issued 38 police special. Returning at the end of the day he was shocked at the paperwork required for discharge of his weapon.

 

The paper work and the fact that it took three bullets was the reason he offered for carrying a 45 as primary and the 38 as backup.

Now this was in the days before PCP and I can only imagine that he would lump someone on PCP as crazy. But he said only two things scared him, a crazy person / people or a mother moose.

Not a bear in the woods not sane people even if they had a gun or a knife.

 

He faced all of them crazy person / people in the riots.

A few bears in the woods while hunting.

Once was enough with the moose!

[Wu Ming Jen]

Brocade leg and flower fist is the term used for those who practice Tai Chi and have no kung fu / skill in fighting.

 

For fighting one must train the martial methods, sparring, free fighting and a lot of conditioning.

 

We have many MMA and black belts that come and train and many are unable to do a simple task like standing front kick extended and only  last a few minutes. Many fail with the plum flower post. 900 kicks few can last.

 

There are many  MMA when they become professional that do way more training than any weekend warrior.  Sport fighting is much different than real life so one can be easily mislead as an observer of fighting skill.

 

School yard fighting in a ring is not something to be respected. Not fighting has great respect.

 

so yes Tai Chi is totally fake and also unbeatable.

[Taomeow]

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Edited May 27, 2017 by Taomeow

[Marblehead]

11 hours ago, Taomeow said:

.

 

 

 

Sometimes the clarity of your written word amazes me.

[liminal_luke]

5 hours ago, Marblehead said:

Sometimes the clarity of your written word amazes me.

 

If you appreciate Taomeow`s clarity now, you oughta of seen it before the edit.  Even better!

[Marblehead]

2 hours ago, liminal_luke said:

 

If you appreciate Taomeow`s clarity now, you oughta of seen it before the edit.  Even better!

Sadly my timing was bad and I missed it.

 

[cold]

I recall something about an early bird?

My timing suffers as well...