So you're telling me the Islamic State still exists???

[liminal_luke]

RC,

 

Point taken that Islamic violence predates American opposition of Islam -- and therefore can`t be said to "cause it."  Touche!

 

Still, contempt doesn`t help.  When you tell someone over and over again that they are terrorists it`s that much easier to fall into that groove.  Hatred doesn`t engender warm, tender feelings -- it just doesn`t.  That`s not something I learned from a misguided left-wing Californian education; it`s just common sense.  Let`s continue with your tiger analogy.  Tigers can be dangerous, yes.  And when they are treated hatefully do they turn into pussy cats?  No, they do not.  We gain nothing from disrespect.

 

I`m not saying we shouldn`t protect ourselves.  Lets put all our resources to work to identify where the real threats are and neutralize them.  If that means some terrorists are killed I`m OK with that.  If it means some people deemed dangerous are not allowed in the country, I`m OK with that too.  What I`m not OK with is sending the message to millions of people that they are somehow less than human. If we follow Aetherous directives and start imprisoning fellow countrymen for saying things like "not all tigers kill" or putting CoExist bumber stickers on their Volkswagon Vans, we`ll be in trouble.

 

Got a clear-minded strategy to keep us safe?  I`m all for it.  It`s the zenophobic posturing that irks me.  You may be right that the roots of violence in Islam are deeper than the current political hysteria.  If so, they also predate the era of hippy love-ins and modern California style public education.  Telling me that I`m responsible for a child`s death because I dare to say that there`s such a thing as moderate (read: not murderous) Islam is just wrong. 

 

 

Edited May 24, 2017 by liminal_luke

[Bindi]

Reading this article Suicide attacks and Islamic law by an Islamic Professor of Law from an Islamic university it does seem that Islamic terrorism is unlawful according to the koran and sharia law.

 

If the conclusions that this article comes to are correct, it is reasonable to distinguish between Islamic terrorism and Islam, and to imagine that better Islamic education for all young muslims might be part of the solution to the problem.

 

 

 

Edited May 24, 2017 by Bindi

[windwalker]

"Labour Party candidate Afzal Khan, who is campaigning to be the Member of Parliament for the area in which Abedi lived, told reporters hours before the bombing: I don’t think immigration is a problem… It has transformed Manchester into a world class city.” 

 

No problems here.

[Apech]

5 hours ago, windwalker said:

Quite, that is all. 

So pray tell what promises would you have him live up to in only a little over 100 days in office?

Did you ask the same of our last President of 8 yrs in office. Did he live up to his promises, was he a fucking joke too. 

 

A fucking joke,,,,such language considering no one is laughing now. 

 

Import people from a war, and some how don't expect to import the war....

carry on, 

 

Well, in his inaugural address he said something about eliminating Islamic terrorism from the face of the earth - so start with the Saudis who fund it - he needs to do a bit more than make a speech.

[windwalker]

One should try understanding what an islamists is and one who pactices Islam 

 

The president offered another way of looking at this that allows others who practce Islam  to join the fight against it.

 

What happened in the previous 8 years with the former president and others have given us what we are now having to deal with.   

 

Time to change the play book

Edited May 24, 2017 by windwalker

[Apech]

2 hours ago, windwalker said:

One should try understanding what an islamists is and one who pactices Islam 

 

The president offered another way of looking at this that allows others who practce Islam  to join the fight against it.

 

What happened in the previous 8 years with the former president and others have given us what we are now having to deal with.   

 

Time to change the play book

 

 

So do tell - what's the new playbook?

[Apech]

UK government being as informative as usual ...

 

 

Quote

 

Amber Rudd, the home secretary, has recorded a clip for broadcasters about this morning’s Cobra meeting. Sky News is playing it now.

She said good progress had been made with the investigation.

And 984 members of the armed forces were being deployed, initially in London but then elsewhere, she said.

Q: Your French counterpart says Salman Abedi had gone to Syria.

Rudd says she is not going to comment on the operation.

Q: Was Abedi subject to a temporary exclusion order or a Tpim

Rudd says she cannot comment.

Q: And can you say anything about Abedi’s father, who is reported to be in Libya.

Rudd says she cannot comment on the investigation. It must be allowed to proceed.

Q: Have you sent messages to the Americans about the leaking of information?

Rudd says the Americans understand the importance of maintaining the integrity of the UK investigation.

(That means, the Americans have agreed not to do it again – see9.35am.)

 

 

... so shut up you yanks!!!!!

 

Edited May 24, 2017 by Apech

[Marblehead]

9 hours ago, Apech said:

 

This bomber - which I posted about above - had Libyan parents who fled from Gaddafi - so they were refugees originally.  he was quiet, respectable and well behaved.

Conflicting reports indicate that he recently visited Libya or Syria.  That should have been a heads up for your security people.

 

Reports state that three people have been detained in connection to the investigation.

 

You have home grown terrorism.

 

[Apech]

1 minute ago, Marblehead said:

Conflicting reports indicate that he recently visited Libya or Syria.  That should have been a heads up for your security people.

 

Reports state that three people have been detained in connection to the investigation.

 

You have home grown terrorism.

 

 

Exactly - these facts are only just coming out.  But an immigration ban won't work now - it's too late.  But I think they should not have let him back from Libya/Syria ... 

[Marblehead]

2 minutes ago, Apech said:

 

Exactly - these facts are only just coming out.  But an immigration ban won't work now - it's too late.  But I think they should not have let him back from Libya/Syria ... 

I won't be defending Saudi Arabia.  But, if Trump can get them to stop supporting the Islamic terrorists that would be a great help for the region.

 

If need be Israel can take care of Syria and Iran.

 

At least the Egyptians woke up and realized how badly the Obama administration was fucking up their country.  I hope Trump can make them our friends again.

 

[windwalker]

 

old play book

 

 

 

New play book

 

"Drive them out of this earth"

D. Trump  President of the United States"   

 

 

 

Edited May 24, 2017 by windwalker

[windwalker]

 

[Marblehead]

I have no words for that.  Well, maybe "Sick"?

 

[Apech]

Just words ... that's all.

[Marblehead]

The police have taken a fourth suspect into custody.

 

The French are saying that the bomber had established links with ISIS.

 

 

[Aetherous]

11 hours ago, liminal_luke said:

 

Call my ideas ridiculous.  Refuse to read another word I write.  Report me to the moderators and circulate a petition asking to get me banned from the forum.  Swear.  Place me on ignore.  Just don`t imprison me for 25 years -- that´s a step too far.

 

 

Don't worry I'll just do the first one when appropriate.

[Aetherous]

3 hours ago, Marblehead said:

I have no words for that.  Well, maybe "Sick"?

 

 

I have some words: worst President in all of US history, who is guilty of treason.

[liminal_luke]

8 hours ago, windwalker said:

 

 

Ugh!  How awful that we have a president who needs to appeal to our lowest playground sensibilities by calling names.  Lets prosecute criminals.  Lets do what we can to prevent crime.  Name calling -- "losers" -- that`s beneath the presidents dignity.  Or should be.  Is this video intended to make me like Trump?  (It`s not working yet, guys.)

 

It is unfortunate, however, that we don`t hear Obama directly giving his condolences to the families.  I wonder if he never did, or it was just edited out of this clip?

Edited May 24, 2017 by liminal_luke

[windwalker]

looks like some have missed the last 8 yrs.   Its not name calling its called framing 

a conversation, something that was not allowed in the last administration. 

Yep by not naming them it wont piss em off...That always works...

 

Lets not call them Islamic terrorist, lets not understand their point of view. Seems like the other often quoted 90 % of those who practice Islam do understand....The new President just affirmed that he like them also gets it,  he understands and is taking actions to destroy it...not appease it,  not change it,  not affirm it.  

 

Destroy it

 

By saying what it is,  President  trump is allowing those who say they are not Islamist to make a choice, and prove it...It's time to step up to the plate.

 

 

Edited May 24, 2017 by windwalker

[liminal_luke]

18 minutes ago, windwalker said:

looks like some have missed the last 8 yrs.   Its not name calling its called framing 

 

 

It`s not naming per se that turns me off.  There`s lots of names I wouldn`t mind -- criminals, murderers, terrorists, Islamic Jihadists.  These are names that do what names are supposed to do, indicate what something is.  

 

Calling someone a "loser" is something else.  It`s a playground taunt.  A rhetorical device designed to appeal to our emotions, bait for the lowest-common-denominator reptilian part of our collective minds.  Unfortunately, it works.  If there`s one thing my time here on Off Grid has proven to me, it`s this -- that this kind of low-level pandering to the very worst of who we are works.

Edited May 24, 2017 by liminal_luke

[windwalker]

I would disagree.  It acknowledges them for what they are. It's not a taunt it's a statement of fact.

 

A mirror,  that they can view themselves and see if this is really what they want to be or already are.

 

[Brian]

2 minutes ago, liminal_luke said:

 

It`s not naming per se that turns me off.  There`s lots of names I wouldn`t mind -- criminals, murderers, terrorists, Islamic Jihadists.  These are names that do what names are supposed to do, indicate what something is.  

 

Calling someone a "loser" is something else.  It`s a playground taunt.  A rhetorical device designed to appeal to our emotions, bait for the lowest-common-denominator reptilian part of our collective minds.  Unfortunately, it works.  If there`s one thing my time here on Off Grid has proven to me, it`s this -- that this kind of low-level pandering to the very worst of who we are works.

I agree, Luke. That sort of juvenile name-calling, though effective, is beneath the standard of conduct I expect from the holder of that Office.

 

That video of Obama with the Gold-Star Mom, however, I'd truly disgusting. The layers of dissembling, deceit and outright lying are stunning -- he is not someone ignorant of Islam merely parroting apologist narrative but is someone who was literally schooled in Islam.  He is looking that woman in the eye and lying to her about the beliefs and motives of the people who took her son's life under his command.

 

I find name-calling is less offensive.

[liminal_luke]

Thanks, Brian

 

I haven`t watched the video you mentioned yet.  For the record though, I`m not an Obama fan.

[Brian]

36 minutes ago, liminal_luke said:

Thanks, Brian

 

I haven`t watched the video you mentioned yet.  For the record though, I`m not an Obama fan.

At the beginning of the '08 campaign, I took him at face-value and actually sent him a donation -- the only politician to whom I have EVER donated.  He presented himself as a reasonable, grass-roots anti-Hillary.  Then I started doing some research...

Edited May 24, 2017 by Brian
Fat fingers

[Aetherous]

1 hour ago, liminal_luke said:

 

Ugh!  How awful that we have a president who needs to appeal to our lowest playground sensibilities by calling names.  Lets prosecute criminals.  Lets do what we can to prevent crime.  Name calling -- "losers" -- that`s beneath the presidents dignity.  Or should be.  Is this video intended to make me like Trump?  (It`s not working yet, guys.)

 

It is unfortunate, however, that we don`t hear Obama directly giving his condolences to the families.  I wonder if he never did, or it was just edited out of this clip?

3

 

I guess if everyone thought and felt the same things, the world would be an incredibly dull place. But are you really talking about name calling being this horrendous thing, in a thread that's about the random murder of (what is it) 22 little kids?

Please give it some thought, Luke. Take a day or two.

I'm not going to try to be manipulative in saying this, and try to get you to leave or be silenced or something - but I find your posts here to be incredibly offensive. It doesn't seem like you're intending them to be that way at all...but think of why this thread was started. Read up about what happened. Then think of how crazy it is to be complaining about murderous terrorists being called losers in a thread about what happened.

Maybe you want to make another one that's about the subject of how to appease terrorists and whether the coexist strategy can work? This thread is absolutely not about that. Or feel free to stay here...I just hope you get what I'm saying.