So you're telling me the Islamic State still exists???

[Marblehead]

Well, it is a proven fact that appeasing the terrorists only emboldens them.  They find ways to kill more people.  Those terrorists and those who support them need to be killed.  That is exactly how I feel about it.

 

[Brian]

Mark my words -- the Manchester Islamic Centre & Didsbury Mosque Manchester will be revealed through the investigation to be squarely at the center of this incident but will be unscathed due to political correctness. This is a now-familiar pattern.

[Apech]

2 minutes ago, Brian said:

Mark my words -- the Manchester Islamic Centre & Didsbury Mosque Manchester will be revealed through the investigation to be squarely at the center of this incident but will be unscathed due to political correctness. This is a now-familiar pattern.

 

 

I used to live in Didsbury - it has a nice Nepalese Restaurant called The Third Eye and a Chinese Restaurant called the Happy Buddha. (just a little context for you).

 

When are you Americans going to fix your security leaks????? - first you leaked the bombers name, then pics of the bomb which were part of police forensic investigation.  Why?  Its an ongoing investigation and they are trying not to let the terrorist network which he appears to have been part of know what they know.  Arrests are still being made.

 

 

[Brian]

1 minute ago, Apech said:

 

 

I used to live in Didsbury - it has a nice Nepalese Restaurant called The Third Eye and a Chinese Restaurant called the Happy Buddha. (just a little context for you).

 

When are you Americans going to fix your security leaks????? - first you leaked the bombers name, then pics of the bomb which were part of police forensic investigation.  Why?  Its an ongoing investigation and they are trying not to let the terrorist network which he appears to have been part of know what they know.  Arrests are still being made.

 

 

When the FBI "investigated" the San Bernardino shooting, they didn't haul away the contents of the couple's apartment for scrutiny.  One might wonder whether they really wanted to discover possible linkages, associations or accomplices.

 

The US intelligence community is still largely managed by those same appointees, hence all the superficially incriminating leaks intended to undermine Trump.

[Marblehead]

14 minutes ago, Apech said:

When are you Americans going to fix your security leaks????? - first you leaked the bombers name, then pics of the bomb which were part of police forensic investigation.  Why?  Its an ongoing investigation and they are trying not to let the terrorist network which he appears to have been part of know what they know.  Arrests are still being made.

 

 

Agree.  A very bad case of sensational journalism.  They do it here in the States too.

[Apech]

The UK Government is fuming.

 

Mind you it seems to me now this is all coming out that they majorly fucked this one up.  The bomber just returned from Libya a couple of days before the bombing, his family are all involved, his father fought for some Islamist Group against Gadaffi - and people had reported his strange behaviour.  So seems to me anyone coming back from Libya or Syria etc. without a good explanation as to what they have been up to out there should be detained or at least put under 24 hr surveillance.

 

The UK Govt. has put troops on the streets to support the police and raised the alert level to critical - which means another attack is expected.  Some might say this is a cynical ploy in the middle of a General Election campaign to gain support for the Conservatives - and I think in this case those people might have a point.

Edited May 25, 2017 by Apech

[liminal_luke]

4 hours ago, Aetherous said:

 

I guess if everyone thought and felt the same things, the world would be an incredibly dull place. But are you really talking about name calling being this horrendous thing, in a thread that's about the random murder of (what is it) 22 little kids?

Please give it some thought, Luke. Take a day or two.

I'm not going to try to be manipulative in saying this, and try to get you to leave or be silenced or something - but I find your posts here to be incredibly offensive. 

 

It sounds like you`re picking up that it`s a little hard to be an active poster here in these political Daobums threads right now for someone like me.  If so, you`re right. The vast majority seem to lean to the right and I feel a bit out on a limb.  Every so often Trunk will post an interesting (to me) video -- and Ralis can always be counted on to argue with Brian -- but there`s not a lot of Bums pushing back against the conservative tide.  Just me.  And really, I don`t push that hard.  (It might not seem like it, but my views have actually been greatly influenced by what I`ve read here from more conservative bums.  I believe you guys are having a much greater influence on me than I`m having on you.  For better or worse.)

 

I`d like you to know that a lot of time and effort goes into those posts you find so offensive.  It`s a little silly how much of myself I`ve been putting into Daobums lately, probably a whole lot more than makes sense.  I don`t want to be silenced either, but it might make sense for me to put my creative energies into some other project.

 

OK, so now to your question: do I really find Trump`s name calling a horrendous thing?  Well, it`s not as horrendous as killing 22 kids -- obviously.  But then I wasn`t comparing Trump`s behavior to the terrorists in question; I was judging it on it`s own merits.  When I hear Trump call the perpetrators "losers," well yeah, I just feel sort of disgusted.  Disgusted that our level of political discourse has sunk to such a base level.  You said the other day that "everyone roots for the home team."  I don`t want to believe that.  That seems so unspiritual to me, so the opposite of the kind of consciousness I look for in myself and hope to see in others.

 

So now of course the question is what do I think of Obama.  Why am I criticizing Trump if I didn`t criticize Obama.  Well, better late than never, OK?  Obama might be worse than Trump because he`s so much less obvious.  It only takes me a minute of watching Trump before I`m aghast that someone so puffed up and seemingly shallow could possibly be so popular.  Obama is sneakier.  To my way of thinking (and I know you hate this) Trump is an obvious narcissist, and Obama is a not so obvious sociopath.  We`re probably better off with a narcissist than a sociopath.

 

Before you get too offended by my reply, I hope you`ll take a second to consider how I might feel knowing you think I deserve to be imprisoned for 25 years.  At first I thought you were being a little hyperbolic about criminalizing free speech, so I asked for clarification and you gave it to me: 25 years  It seems so preposterous to me that it`s hard to really believe you mean it, but I guess I have to take you at your word.  I don`t think I`d survive in prison that long.  So the way I look at it, you`re really saying you want me dead.  I can`t think of anything I could possibly say to you that would be more offensive than that.

 

 

Edited May 25, 2017 by liminal_luke

[Apech]

Calling them 'losers' just seems to me and extension of the old political rhetoric of 'good guys and bad guys' which I think Bush used.  This is so simplistic it's painful.  It is as if Americans really believe that there are cowboys in white hats and black hats.  The world is a very complex place and while there are evil acts like this bombing of innocents - its all mixed up with centuries if not millennia of conflict.  What the world is crying out for is an intelligent and properly articulated response to islamic terrorism and it would be better if the so called leader of the free world could provide it.  To see Trump addressing a group of Muslim leaders telling them to drive out something they actually fund and layer this on our ridiculous response to the Arab spring and so on - all you are witnessing is confusion and posturing.

 

 

[Apech]

The woman in this used to be my MP in Salford/Manchester:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kgbSgG6ifiQ

[Taoist Texts]

2 hours ago, Apech said:

To see Trump addressing a group of Muslim leaders telling them to drive out something they actually fund and layer this on our ridiculous response

From the catbird seat it may seem ridiculous. Yet somehow the sheikhs did not seem amused. Syria, Lebanon, Iraq, Gaza, Libya  are soberingly close to them. They know  they are next in line.

Edited May 25, 2017 by Taoist Texts

[Apech]

Just now, Taoist Texts said:

From the catbird seat it may seem ridiculous. Yet somehow the sheikhs did not seem amused. Syria, Lebanon, Iraq, Gaza are uncomfortably close to them. They know  they are next in line.

 

In line for what?

[Taoist Texts]

4 minutes ago, Apech said:

 

In line for what?

The regime change, bombing raids optional.

[Apech]

Just now, Taoist Texts said:

The regime change, bombing raids optional.

 

 

What I liked about Trumps candidacy was America First and lets stop interfering in the Middle East.  What happened to that?

 

The way to tackle this Islamist ideology is not to bomb or invade Muslim countries.

 

[Taoist Texts]

2 minutes ago, Apech said:

What I liked about Trumps candidacy was America First and lets stop interfering in the Middle East.  What happened to that?

Reality)

3 minutes ago, Apech said:

 

The way to tackle this Islamist ideology is not to bomb or invade Muslim countries.

Why not? Thats exactly what they do to our countries, after all.

[Apech]

1 minute ago, Taoist Texts said:

Reality)

Why not? Thats exactly what they do to our countries, after all.

 

Cos we've tried it already and it didn't work.

[Marblehead]

3 hours ago, Apech said:

Calling them 'losers' just seems to me and extension of the old political rhetoric of 'good guys and bad guys' which I think Bush used.  This is so simplistic it's painful.  It is as if Americans really believe that there are cowboys in white hats and black hats.  The world is a very complex place and while there are evil acts like this bombing of innocents - its all mixed up with centuries if not millennia of conflict.  What the world is crying out for is an intelligent and properly articulated response to islamic terrorism and it would be better if the so called leader of the free world could provide it.  To see Trump addressing a group of Muslim leaders telling them to drive out something they actually fund and layer this on our ridiculous response to the Arab spring and so on - all you are witnessing is confusion and posturing.

 

 

I respect your views regarding this.  However, I disagree with them.  If the world continues to lie to itself about the dangers of radical Islam and all their associated terrorists there are going to be many more innocent women and children killed. 

 

They are losers.  They had nothing to live for except the lies the clerics told them.  They lost all the potential of a productive life and opted for destruction.

 

Yes, there really are the "good guys" and the "bad guys".  It has always been that way.  This is why governments and religions were formed in the first place.

 

For a religion to state that it is okay for its members to kill innocent children is sick.  Those teaching such thing should be killed because it's not okay.

 

You can be as PC as you wish but I'm sure there are many parents right now who are very heart-broken. 

 

Those who are involved in this tragedy are losers.  Brain-washed ignorant people who think only of themselves. all beliefs being based on lies.  And these people will not change therefore they must be killed.

 

[Brian]

11 hours ago, Brian said:

When the FBI "investigated" the San Bernardino shooting, they didn't haul away the contents of the couple's apartment for scrutiny.  One might wonder whether they really wanted to discover possible linkages, associations or accomplices.

 

The US intelligence community is still largely managed by those same appointees, hence all the superficially incriminating leaks intended to undermine Trump.

As of today, internal British intelligence documents related to the Manchester bombing investigation include a specific admonition that they are not to be shared with the FBI.

[Marblehead]

34 minutes ago, Apech said:

What I liked about Trumps candidacy was America First and lets stop interfering in the Middle East.  What happened to that?

 

The way to tackle this Islamist ideology is not to bomb or invade Muslim countries.

 

No one can do miracles, not even Trump.  He has been in office for three months.  Some wars through history have lasted over five hundred years.

 

But then, after the major terrorist groups have been destroyed and the USA is still meddling in Middle Eastern affairs your question would be appropriate.

[Taoist Texts]

27 minutes ago, Apech said:

 

Cos we've tried it already and it didn't work.

But it did)

[Marblehead]

26 minutes ago, Apech said:

 

Cos we've tried it already and it didn't work.

Wouldn't it be better for the militaries of nations being effected by terrorism to go after the terrorists than to just sit back (like the UK government did) and allow its children to be slaughtered by terrorists?

 

[Apech]

2 minutes ago, Marblehead said:

I respect your views regarding this.  However, I disagree with them.  If the world continues to lie to itself about the dangers of radical Islam and all their associated terrorists there are going to be many more innocent women and children killed. 

 

They are losers.  They had nothing to live for except the lies the clerics told them.  They lost all the potential of a productive life and opted for destruction.

 

Yes, there really are the "good guys" and the "bad guys".  It has always been that way.  This is why governments and religions were formed in the first place.

 

For a religion to state that it is okay for its members to kill innocent children is sick.  Those teaching such thing should be killed because it's not okay.

 

You can be as PC as you wish but I'm sure there are many parents right now who are very heart-broken. 

 

Those who are involved in this tragedy are losers.  Brain-washed ignorant people who think only of themselves. all beliefs being based on lies.  And these people will not change therefore they must be killed.

 

 

 

yes, you misunderstand me.  They are losers sure, but I want world leaders, our leaders in the west to address the issue with more intelligence than 'good guys, bad guys'.  For instance is Putin a good guy or a bad guy?  Is Assad a good guy or a bad guy?  Is Erdrogan good or bad?  is Merkel good or bad?  Is Trump good or bad?

 

I'm not at all PC.  After all this bomber came from a family to whom the UK gave asylum - we took them in, educated them, fed them, gave them a future which was denied to them by Gaddafi - and in return they plot against us and blow up innocents.  That's the stark reality.  The sooner we face up to knowing we face an ideology which hates us the better.  So what i want to know is - Mr. Trump head of the richest, most powerful country in the free world - what's the plan????  Call them names?  Hardly.

[Apech]

Just now, Marblehead said:

Wouldn't it be better for the militaries of nations being effected by terrorism to go after the terrorists than to just sit back (like the UK government did) and allow its children to be slaughtered by terrorists?

 

 

 

Actually we were with you in Afghanistan and iraq - we have one of the best security services in the world and counter intelligence (despite this one slipping the net) - we have stopped up to 13 threats in recent years.  I don't think there is any nation does more than us.

 

 

[Taoist Texts]

5 minutes ago, Marblehead said:

just sit back

well, they dont just sit back. they are ordered to redeploy against their own kin.

[Marblehead]

5 minutes ago, Apech said:

yes, you misunderstand me.  They are losers sure, but I want world leaders, our leaders in the west to address the issue with more intelligence than 'good guys, bad guys'.  For instance is Putin a good guy or a bad guy?  Is Assad a good guy or a bad guy?  Is Erdrogan good or bad?  is Merkel good or bad?  Is Trump good or bad?

 

I'm not at all PC.  After all this bomber came from a family to whom the UK gave asylum - we took them in, educated them, fed them, gave them a future which was denied to them by Gaddafi - and in return they plot against us and blow up innocents.  That's the stark reality.  The sooner we face up to knowing we face an ideology which hates us the better.  So what i want to know is - Mr. Trump head of the richest, most powerful country in the free world - what's the plan????  Call them names?  Hardly.

Your response is acceptable. 

 

We don't know yet what Trump's goals are for that part of the world.  If he stands firm to what he has suggested is his philosophy I would suspect that it is the destruction of the terrorist groups and then bring the troops home and allow the economy to rule the interactions of the Middle Eastern countries with the countries of the West.

 

And the West would then allow the Middle East countries to deal with their own problems according to their culture.

 

[Marblehead]

7 minutes ago, Apech said:

Actually we were with you in Afghanistan and iraq - we have one of the best security services in the world and counter intelligence (despite this one slipping the net) - we have stopped up to 13 threats in recent years.  I don't think there is any nation does more than us.

 

No argument with that.  The West invading Iraq was unjustified.  Invading Afghanistan was. 

 

But the trend recently not only in your country but mine as well has been to pretend terrorists don't exist, That they are only an illusion.  That is bullshit and so ignorant it's pathetic.

 

Yes, the UK screwed this one up badly.  They had information the French had shared with them but your government decided to do nothing.