So you're telling me the Islamic State still exists???

[liminal_luke]

15 minutes ago, Aetherous said:

 

Responding to a terrorist attack with calls for increased security and counter-terrorism.

 

I agree that meeting increasing violence with increased security seems a rational response.

13 minutes ago, Aetherous said:

 

Nope...there's something wrong with projecting those emotions onto the people who respond responsibly, in an attempt to make their position seem weak.

 

It`s unfortunate that  much of our culture sees even just having feelings -- nevermind their open expression -- as a sign of weakness. That attitude has led to so much needless suffering.  To me it`s just the opposite.  To be in touch with one`s feelings and willing to appropriately and forcefully express them is a great strength. There`s power in emotional sensitivity. 

Edited May 26, 2017 by liminal_luke

[Aetherous]

7 minutes ago, liminal_luke said:

 

I agree that meeting increasing violence with increased security seems a rational response.

 

It`s unfortunate that  much of our culture sees even just having feelings -- nevermind their open expression -- as a sign of weakness. That attitude has led to so much needless suffering.  To me it`s just the opposite.  To be in touch with one`s feelings and willing to appropriately and forcefully express them is a great strength. There`s power in emotional sensitivity. 

 

I totally agree. Nothing wrong with having feelings...just need to keep rationality in control in the midst of it.

[Brian]

I have an annoying tendency (my only annoying tendency, I'll have you know! ) of seeing many natural processes through the lens of differential calculus.  As a result, I think about this situation as a harmonic oscillator and the objective should be critical dampening.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harmonic_oscillator#Damped_harmonic_oscillator

Edited May 26, 2017 by Brian

[liminal_luke]

22 minutes ago, Brian said:

I have an annoying tendency (my only annoying tendency, I'll have you know! ) of seeing many natural processes through the lens of differential calculus.  

 

It`s not like I really need another way of annoying people, but I`d love to be able to add differential calculus to my mental torture toolbox.  Very cool.

[cold]

Brian I don't know about those harmonic tendencies (that being said I generally appreciate harmony!). I do have some first hand experience with phugoid oscillations which are associated with negative feedback, lol!

 

"Whereas positive feedback leads to instability" ....

versus

"Negative feedback loops in which the right amount of correction is applied with optimum timing leads to stability."

 

Feed the fire being positive feedback.

versus

Not feeding the fire negative feedback.

 

Less is more.

The war on terrorism has been about as successful as the war on drugs.

 

 

[Brian]

13 minutes ago, cold said:

Brian I don't know about those harmonic tendencies (that being said I generally appreciate harmony!). I do have some first hand experience with phugoid oscillations which are associated with negative feedback, lol!

 

"Whereas positive feedback leads to instability" ....

versus

"Negative feedback loops in which the right amount of correction is applied with optimum timing leads to stability."

 

Feed the fire being positive feedback.

versus

Not feeding the fire negative feedback.

 

Less is more.

The war on terrorism has been about as successful as the war on drugs.

 

 

Phugoids'll kill you.

 

 

"War on terrorism" can't work for the same reason the "war on drugs" can't work.  "Terrorism" isn't the problem, it's a methodology, an approach.  Defending against a method is operationally appropriate but it isn't a solution.

[Marblehead]

6 hours ago, Brian said:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2017/05/26/egypt-gunmen-attack-coptic-christians/102183116

See what fucking cowardly people those terrorists are?  Killing unarmed, defenseless women, old men and children.

 

And sadly this is a result of Obama's policy of supporting "Arab Spring" which consisted of Islamic terrorist organizations.

 

What a fucking mess Trump has to deal with!  I hope he can make friends with Egypt after what Obama did to them.

 

 

[Apech]

2 minutes ago, Marblehead said:

See what fucking cowardly people those terrorists are?  Killing unarmed, defenseless women, old men and children.

 

And sadly this is a result of Obama's policy of supporting "Arab Spring" which consisted of Islamic terrorist organizations.

 

What a fucking mess Trump has to deal with!  I hope he can make friends with Egypt after what Obama did to them.

 

 

 

You've got to stop with this self referential thing.  There's a whole world out there which is nasty and violent both before and after Obama and Trump.  Leaders should protect their own nations and stop thinking they can fix the world.

 

 

[Marblehead]

1 minute ago, Apech said:

 

You've got to stop with this self referential thing.  There's a whole world out there which is nasty and violent both before and after Obama and Trump.  Leaders should protect their own nations and stop thinking they can fix the world.

 

 

No, I must put blame where the blame lies.  Obama made things three times worse than any of the presidents prior to him.  And yes, it goes all the way back to Carter and my country keeps doing the wrong thing.

 

I agree with your last sentence.  But the present chaos must be stopped first before anything like that can ever happen.

 

I do not deny the existence of violence in the world.  It has always been that way.  But doing things that naturally make things worse is not a cure for the problems.

 

Do away with religions and nations and you will solve 90% of the world's problems.

 

[Apech]

59 minutes ago, Marblehead said:

No, I must put blame where the blame lies.  Obama made things three times worse than any of the presidents prior to him.  And yes, it goes all the way back to Carter and my country keeps doing the wrong thing.

 

I agree with your last sentence.  But the present chaos must be stopped first before anything like that can ever happen.

 

I do not deny the existence of violence in the world.  It has always been that way.  But doing things that naturally make things worse is not a cure for the problems.

 

Do away with religions and nations and you will solve 90% of the world's problems.

 

 

You're a globalist?

[Marblehead]

1 minute ago, Apech said:

 

You're a globalist?

I am a Cosmopolitan.  A label defined by Albert Camus.

[Apech]

Just now, Marblehead said:

I am a Cosmopolitan.  A label defined by Albert Camus.

 

Like this?

 

[Marblehead]

 

Well, you tried.  Failed but that doesn't matter.

 

No, not like that.

 

[liminal_luke]

2 hours ago, Marblehead said:

 

Well, you tried.  Failed but that doesn't matter.

 

No, not like that.

 

 

That`s too bad.  Imagine how awesome it would be if Marblehead was exactly like that.  After all these years, I have this one impression of him in my mind and it turns out to be stunningly, stupefyingly wrong.  Marblehead comes out from behind his fishpond or wherever, and says "fooled ya!"

Edited May 27, 2017 by liminal_luke

[windwalker]

 

 

"Obama 'heartbroken' by Manchester attack"

https://www.yahoo.com/news/obama-heartbroken-manchester-attack-112331139.html

 

Not much to say about the ex President.  I hope in time people will start to wake up about him and 

that history shows what happened and is happening when the US made an 8yr  mistake. 

 

[Apech]

 

[windwalker]

 

Why doesn't the west hold it to the same standards as other ideologies found to be incompatible

with most western values.    

[Brian]

29 minutes ago, windwalker said:

 

Why doesn't the west hold it to the same standards as other ideologies found to be incompatible

with most western values.    

Because our leaders, in collaboration with ideological front groups, have been Islamic apologists for decades?

 

Places like Hungary seem to have longer memories.

[redcairo]

I like relabeling them losers, Luke. Here's why:

 

1. Generally: I think one of the genuine problems we have as a social-culture with issues such as islamic terrorism (which is the vast vast vast vast majority of terrorism here and in Islamic countries, though not all others) is that nobody wants to call anything what it is and all the whitewashed phrasings and labelings pretty much err on the side of making everything prettier and not so bad. So first off, the fact that he is just brutally clear in the various things he has said about -- totally outside the normal "political speech" -- I think is great.

 

2. Second, specifically to the label losers, I like it -- if you call them muslims people get pissed ("because my muslim neighbor hasn't bombed anybody yet so how rude") and if you call them terrorists you merely highlight their terror and I suspect make them feel like yeah, we're he-man, we're bad-ass, be terrified. He is trying to instantiate -- and there is a bigger picture to this -- a change in how the world thinks about this including arabic countries, and to create a reaction that is not about terror but about disgust. Marginalization, to minimize the terror. Enough disgust that it loses the glossy, may be less attractive to young people to join, and so that even other muslims will be more willing to report them and not support them. You can't just call them killers and slavers -- hell by Islam's standards you've done good for Allah if you're those things.

 

You (and others) see it as just a simple, childish name calling. I see it as a deliberate, and probably carefully thought out beforehand, "strategy" -- just like you'd have in business or marketing -- intentionally simple spit-wadding level. He is refusing to give them the "drama" that they WANT and the terror that they WANT, and instead "reframing" it into something else.

 

RC

[windwalker]

 

the clarity is very stark compared to the last 8yrs of pandering and misdirection.

Barbaric criminals, losers , good and evil...about time some  one put it into context.

 

"drive them out of this earth"  about says all that needs to be said.  

Edited May 29, 2017 by windwalker

[liminal_luke]

RC,

 

You may be right.  Like I say, I have an almost gut-level negative reaction to that kind of talk.  But then again, it`s not really my reaction that matters.  If it really is a well thought out strategy and it works, well, more power to him.

 

LL

[ralis]

On 5/26/2017 at 2:01 PM, Brian said:

I have an annoying tendency (my only annoying tendency, I'll have you know! ) of seeing many natural processes through the lens of differential calculus.  As a result, I think about this situation as a harmonic oscillator and the objective should be critical dampening.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harmonic_oscillator#Damped_harmonic_oscillator

 

https://www.amazon.com/Scale-Universal-Innovation-Sustainability-Organisms/dp/1594205582

[Apech]

11 hours ago, windwalker said:

 

the clarity is very stark compared to the last 8yrs of pandering and misdirection.

Barbaric criminals, losers , good and evil...about time some  one put it into context.

 

"drive them out of this earth"  about says all that needs to be said.  

 

 

I agree it's a lot better than pandering - but he is still addressing his audience of terrorist funders talking about good versus evil as if they are not signed up to an ideology which actually does not believe in equality and freedom but in Theocracy and authoritarianism.  He's describing ISIS etc as if they operate to a different code, in a different sphere with a different Koran.  They don't - it's the same one.  This explains the faces of the Saudis - at once indifferent and sneeringly antagonistic, sitting as they do in opulence while setting the world on fire.  He's appealing to them to drive out evil when they don't even think it is evil.  So calling them losers and so on does not amount to a strategy as far as I can see.

 

 

 

 

[Marblehead]

You didn't notice some of those Arab delegates squirming is their seat while Trump was talking?

 

[Apech]

6 minutes ago, Marblehead said:

You didn't notice some of those Arab delegates squirming is their seat while Trump was talking?

 

 

 

they looked slightly pissed off it's true