Church of Jediism ?

[Starjumper]

On 8/12/2017 at 1:52 AM, Hancock said:

The Jedi is kind a like a warrior monk mixed with mysticism an philosophy. An a lot of the jedi I've met are for the most part celibate only if their particular internal practices call for it.

 

These guys I've met have 4 primary areas that are required of Jedi, Volunteering to help the community, physical exercising, philosophy, mysticism/energetic development.

The no sex thing isn't an issue usually.

 

Could you comment a bit on what energy development means to them, how they do it?  I guess if their leadership read my web page then they already know about it.  Physical exercising is good, but I imagine it's not chi kung they are using for that.

Edited August 16, 2017 by Starjumper

[Starjumper]

16 hours ago, Wu Ming Jen said:

Do it ! its fictional with a bases of reality or old stories as fiction.

 

Opportunity knocks might be worth seeing where it goes. Your actual identity can be concealed under contract.

 

Thanks to your suggestion I wrote back to see what they had in mind.  Earlier I had said I wasn't interested.  We shall see.  I won't tell them that they are a bastard child of Taoism, although that may be tough.  Anyway lots of new age BS is a bastard child of Taoism.

[Hancock]

7 hours ago, Starjumper said:

 

Could you comment a bit on what energy development means to them, how they do it?  I guess if their leadership read my web page then they already know about it.  Physical exercising is good, but I imagine it's not chi kung they are using for that.

They do it from all different types of ways, or at least that was my experience with them. As long as you learn some metaphysical ability, reiki is big because it's easiest for most, there are qigong practitioners, cultivators, it's not just one way. A person chooses and develops, usually with the guide of someone in the position of experience that feels led to assist that person to take them on as a "padawan" aka Jedi disciple.

 

They really focus more nowadays on the intellectualism an anyhow I'm not really apart of it anymore yeah. But there's core energy skills they do want people to know or at least where I was which was Jedi institute forum, grounding, energy sensing, chakra work, centering. Other than that it's dealers choice.

[Starjumper]

Well I wrote back to the 'church' and told them I was interested.  The lady in charge was like 'wow that's great because your vision is so in alignment with ours'.  Then after going back and forth a few times and me finally agreeing to join then I get a message that  they don't want me because their leader says they already have a martial arts expert.  Well this 'expert' they have is a karate mental jerkoff, and karate is the opposite of the internal martial arts.   Also I had told them it would be more in alignment with their vision  for me to teach how to cultivate chi power and how the Force represents chi power.

 

It seems probable that the real reason is because they would see me as competition and the leaders don't really want the followers to know the roots of their silly religion, which is Taoism, and their practice, which is Taoist chi kung.  That could hit them in the pocketbook.

Edited August 18, 2017 by Starjumper

[MooNiNite]

Who had a higher metachlorian count Luke or Anakin? 

[silent thunder]

I recall it struck me back in college that to many in the galaxy, Luke would have been a terrorist.

 

I really remember genuinely upsetting a buddy back in college who was a hardcore fan, when I explained this to him over pints; that from the perspective of the son of the Heating/Air Conditioning Installation and Repair Man, who died on the Death Star when Luke blew it up... to that boy... Luke was a murdering terrorist, because his Dad was the most wonderful, hard working, loving, kind and humorous man in the galaxy... and Luke blew him up.

 

perspective is my ally and my ally is perspective.  no wait. 

[Starjumper]

31 minutes ago, silent thunder said:

I recall it struck me back in college that to many in the galaxy, Luke would have been a terrorist.

 

I really remember genuinely upsetting a buddy back in college who was a hardcore fan, when I explained this to him over pints; that from the perspective of the son of the Heating/Air Conditioning Installation and Repair Man, who died on the Death Star when Luke blew it up... to that boy... Luke was a murdering terrorist, because his Dad was the most wonderful, hard working, loving, kind and humorous man in the galaxy... and Luke blew him up.

 

perspective is my ally and my ally is perspective.  no wait. 

 

Yes, the resistance or whatever you call them, in the Star Wars movies, were like terrorists here on Earth.

[9th]

It was called "the rebellion"

 

but Star Wars was just a bunch of stolen ideas to begin with, even back in the 70s... Ive already pointed out a part of the script in the first movie that were directly plagarised from Castaneda's books, when Obi-Wan is describing "the force" to Luke..

 

 

Quote

 

Power is something a warrior deals with. At first it's an incredible, far-fetched affair; it is hard to even think about it. Then power becomes a serious matter; one may not have it, or one may not even fully realize that it exists, yet one knows that something is there, something which was not noticeable before. Next power is manifested as something uncontrollable that comes to oneself. It is not possible for me to say how it comes or what it really is. It is nothing and yet it makes marvels appear before your very eyes. And finally power is something in oneself, something that controls one's acts and yet obeys one's command.

 

- Castaneda

 

Ben Kenobi: Remember, a Jedi can feel the Force flowing through him.

Luke Skywalker: You mean it controls your actions?

Ben Kenobi: Partially, but it also obeys your commands.

 

 

and then there was the Lensman series of books that came way before Star Wars, with the psychic-powered laser sword wielding super hero good guys (the titular Lensman).. and the war of Good psychics vs Evil psychics and so on

 

and then of course there is the fact that the main movie plot points are lifted from Kurosawa's "The Hidden Fortress"

 

and the character design based on Joseph Campbells identification of the trinity of "Hero - Shadow - Old Man".. and on with the whole "i am your father, luke" business and all of that

 

 

On 8/18/2017 at 9:51 AM, Starjumper said:

Well I wrote back to the 'church' and told them I was interested.  The lady in charge was like 'wow that's great because your vision is so in alignment with ours'.  Then after going back and forth a few times and me finally agreeing to join then I get a message that  they don't want me because their leader says they already have a martial arts expert

 

So it seems strange to me that you would be surprised that a sham-"religion" derived from a sham-mythos would be anything other than a total sham to begin with.  Or are you just trying to inject some reality into their situation?  Im just wondering if an entirely unreal sham-"religion" is a fertile ground for such growth.  It seems highly questionable that a situation which is entirely based on fictional fantasies taken out of context in such a way as to present the maximum level of "acceptability" or "marketing potential" would even be able to accommodate actual reality to begin with.

[Starjumper]

50 minutes ago, 9th said:

and then of course there is the fact that the main movie plot points are lifted from Kurosawa's "The Hidden Fortress"

 

Thanks, I'll look for that movie to watch, and thanks for all the other info, it's good to know.

 

Quote

but Star Wars was just a bunch of stolen ideas to begin with, even back in the 70s... Ive already pointed out a part of the script in the first movie that were directly plagarised from Castaneda's books, when Obi-Wan is describing "the force" to Luke..

 

It's been said that all stories are rehashes of ever more ancient stories, going back who knows how far.

 

Quote

So it seems strange to me that you would be surprised that a sham-"religion" derived from a sham-mythos would be anything other than a total sham to begin with.  Or are you just trying to inject some reality into their situation?  Im just wondering if an entirely unreal sham-"religion" is a fertile ground for such growth.  It seems highly questionable that a situation which is entirely based on fictional fantasies taken out of context in such a way as to present the maximum level of "acceptability" or "marketing potential" would even be able to accommodate actual reality to begin with.

 

Well at first I thought that way, but then their teaching organizer actually approached me for help.  I had no interest and consider them the enemy so told them to forget it but later, due to a post here and my need for some more cash I thought, what the hell I'll do it.  Of course I thought it would be a good challenge for me and nice to educate the weenies as to what the Force was really about and how to cultivate the force, because that's what I'm all about.  When their scumbag 'leader' found out he nixed the idea with a lame excuse.  In my book I'm not only going to show the parallels between the Force and chi power , which I have already planned, but I'm going to fry those morons.  Some of your comments will fit nicely in there.

 

The one definition of the difference between a spiritual practice and a religion that really struck me as truth and stuck with me goes like this:  A spiritual practice is where a person works on becoming a realizer, and a religion is where people go to hear about (what some power hungry individual says) what some realizer said.  That sham religion, though, isn't even based on what some idiots want people to think some realizer said.

 

May the Force be with you.

Edited August 21, 2017 by Starjumper

[9th]

33 minutes ago, Starjumper said:

It's been said that all stories are rehashes of ever more ancient stories, going back who knows how far.

 

Right, and thats the whole point of Joseph Campbell's work as well.  And so the fact that Lucas took his character ideas directly from him ties into the fact he was deliberately trying to be as derivative as possible and make a modern Hero Myth for the Space Age or whatever.  He was going for that "meta-story" in an intentional way.  Its pretty much the same thing Tarantino does, except he goes for the underground, hipster angle - whereas Lucas was going for the mainstream universally appealing pop culture phenomena type thing.  Honestly it did become an iconic phenomena - so he succeeded in that and there is something to be said for it.  But ultimately it was a hollow shell of an artwork - and the resulting legacy was exclusively used to sell toys to little kids... not to tell a "good story" or to "impart wisdom" or "pass down knowledge" or whatever.  Who knows if it started out that way or not, but apparently Hollywood got what it wanted out of him and then turned him out - and now its all said and done anyways. 

 

Storytelling, myths and so forth are indeed a part of humanity that stretches back before prehistory - and in fact, history itself is built upon its foundation.  And yes there are universal patterns that continually repeat throughout the eras in many different forms and varieties.  So, it certainly has a purpose beyond just selling toys or pokemons or whatever - but not in the case of "Star Wars" and all that kind of shit.  It could have been, but it wasnt in that case.  And it has been done before in other cases.  And its still being done today in other cases.  

 

So yeh - fuck star wars.

[Starjumper]

34 minutes ago, 9th said:

Right, and thats the whole point of Joseph Campbell's work as well.  And so the fact that Lucas took his character ideas directly from him ties into the fact he was deliberately trying to be as derivative as possible and make a modern Hero Myth for the Space Age or whatever.  He was going for that "meta-story" in an intentional way.  Its pretty much the same thing Tarantino does, except he goes for the underground, hipster angle - whereas Lucas was going for the mainstream universally appealing pop culture phenomena type thing.  Honestly it did become an iconic phenomena - so he succeeded in that and there is something to be said for it.

 ...

So yeh - fuck star wars.

 

Ya, fuck the church of Jediism

 

I had a mentor who was an extremely old Taoist, who I deem to have been an immortal, who was friends with Campbell.  They discussed those movies and didn't see eye to eye on some of the aspects.  He told me that after the first movie three Taoists visited Lucas and got him straightened out as to some of the Campbellian errors  that were in the first movie.  I mean, Campbells errors concerning Taoism and 'the Force'.

Edited August 21, 2017 by Starjumper

[Starjumper]

I forgot to explain an important point.  The reason Campbell's views on the subject mattered is because he advised Lucas on some of the key aspects of the movies.

Edited August 21, 2017 by Starjumper

[rene]

What I like about Star Wars - is that, back in the 70s, it introduced the idea that there was something out there - other than the judeo-christian god. For many people that was a first. And a good one, imo. Prior to Star Wars the choices were believe in god or not; then suddenly! there was another option...put into words what was previously only instinctually felt.

Edited August 21, 2017 by WuDao

[9th]

34 minutes ago, WuDao said:

What I like about Star Wars - is that, back in the 70s, it introduced the idea that there was something out there - other than the judeo-christian god. For many people that was a first. And a good one, imo. Prior to Star Wars the choices were believe in god or not; then suddenly! there was another option...put into words what was previously only instinctually felt.

 

Sorry but I see this as an entirely ridiculous view and laughable to an extreme degree - but of course, this is just my opinion.

 

Suffice to say that numerous alternative philosophies, religions, traditions, practices, etc. etc. etc. had come to America since the late 1800s, and I would say these are things that provided far, far, far more in the way of introducing people to other things besides christianity in an actually productive way.  Frankly I doubt more than a handful of people took "star wars" seriously enough to regard "the force" as something that was truly "real" - considering star wars is just fuzzy little puppets and laser guns and shit like that.

 

During the 60s and 70s, Castaneda himself introduced an entire generation to "alternate realities" based on "energy" and all that - and again, those ideas were directly used in star wars in a much more watered down and impotent way..  Castaneda was a really big deal back in that time.  So were a lot of other metaphysical groups and cults and all kinds of things like that.  Kids today dont know shit about it - but they do know star wars because fuzzy little puppets are always appealing to children.

 

 Yeh there are some obsessive fanboys (see: fanatics) out there that want Jedis to be real and so they play dress-up with lightsabers... but thats a pretty small minority - and an incredibly silly one to boot.  In many ways its quite sad - because they are so happy and satisfied with just substituting complete bullshit for an actual practice of self-development.  If it leads to something real, then great - but Jedis arent real.  You cant be a Jedi.  You can only pretend to be one.  They are just fictional characters from a pulp movie designed for the lowest common denominator.  But your life is not fictional, so it deserves something real.

[rene]

16 minutes ago, 9th said:

 

Sorry but I see this as an entirely ridiculous view and laughable to an extreme degree - but of course, this is just my opinion.

 

Suffice to say that numerous alternative philosophies, religions, traditions, practices, etc. etc. etc. had come to America since the late 1800s, and I would say these are things that provided far, far, far more in the way of introducing people to other things besides christianity in an actually productive way.  Frankly I doubt more than a handful of people took "star wars" seriously enough to regard "the force" as something that was truly "real" - considering star wars is just fuzzy little puppets and laser guns and shit like that.

 

During the 60s and 70s, Castaneda himself introduced an entire generation to "alternate realities" based on "energy" and all that - and again, those ideas were directly used in star wars in a much more watered down and impotent way..  Castaneda was a really big deal back in that time.  So were a lot of other metaphysical groups and cults and all kinds of things like that.  Kids today dont know shit about it - but they do know star wars because fuzzy little puppets are always appealing to children.

 

 Yeh there are some obsessive fanboys (see: fanatics) out there that want Jedis to be real and so they play dress-up with lightsabers... but thats a pretty small minority - and an incredibly silly one to boot.  In many ways its quite sad - because they are so happy and satisfied with just substituting complete bullshit for an actual practice of self-development.  If it leads to something real, then great - but Jedis arent real.  You cant be a Jedi.  You can only pretend to be one.  They are just fictional characters from a pulp movie designed for the lowest common denominator.  But your life is not fictional, so it deserves something real.

 

9th, hello!

 

I'm glad you found something to laugh at this morning. (-:

 

Not sure why you'd find others finding happiness and satisfaction as quite sad. I like that we each have our own way; I leave them to theirs, as I leave you to yours, with best wishes on your path.

 

warmest regards

Edited August 21, 2017 by WuDao

[9th]

1 minute ago, WuDao said:

Not sure why you'd find others finding happiness as quite sad. I like that we each have our own way; I leave them to theirs, as I leave you to yours, with best wishes on your path.

 

I already explained why - If you are happy with eating a peice of candy while dreaming its a plate of fresh vegetables, its sad to me because you wont actually be improving your health.  Eventually your health will degrade because candy has no nutritional value - and because you were happy and satisfied with the dreams of being healthy instead of actually being healthy.  At some point you may even convince yourself that the illnesses you have imposed on yourself through a steady diet of candy alone is the same thing as being healthy.  Thats sad to me.  Its a waste of potential and a perversion of the most sacred impulse there is, IMHO.  If you cant understand that, I dont know what else to say.

 

Moreover, this is not really applicable to people who have no interest in self-development or working on themselves.  They are so asleep as to be entirely inconsequential at a personal level - so I dont really have any kind of personal interest in what they do.  Their happiness is meaningless to me.  Its not sad to me, its not happy to me - its of no concern at all - because I dont care about what they are doing beyond its overall impact as another factor in the world itself.  However when it comes to people who have made a conscious choice to approach a conscious lifestyle - thats when I do care about what they are doing.

 

But yeh - go ahead and have fun.  Live it up while you can.  Again, this is all just my opinion.  You are free to do whatever you want - just like everyone else.

[rene]

18 minutes ago, 9th said:

 

I already explained why - If you are happy with eating a peice of candy while dreaming its a plate of fresh vegetables, its sad to me because you wont actually be improving your health.  Eventually your health will degrade because candy has no nutritional value - and because you were happy and satisfied with the dreams of being healthy instead of actually being healthy.  At some point you may even convince yourself that the illnesses you have imposed on yourself through a steady diet of candy alone is the same thing as being healthy.  Thats sad to me.  Its a waste of potential and a perversion of the most sacred impulse there is, IMHO.  If you cant understand that, I dont know what else to say.

 

Moreover, this is not really applicable to people who have no interest in self-development or working on themselves.  They are so asleep as to be entirely inconsequential at a personal level - so I dont really have any kind of personal interest in what they do.  Their happiness is meaningless to me.  Its not sad to me, its not happy to me - its of no concern at all - because I dont care about what they are doing beyond its overall impact as another factor in the world itself.  However when it comes to people who have made a conscious choice to approach a conscious lifestyle - thats when I do care about what they are doing.

 

But yeh - go ahead and have fun.  Live it up while you can.  Again, this is all just my opinion.  You are free to do whatever you want - just like everyone else.

 

Your point and words were easy enough to understand, lol. I was curious about your apparent need to judge others, and find them lacking.

 

Thanks for your reply!

[Brian]

10 minutes ago, Earl Grey said:

 

Do you like Frank Herbert's Dune?  I was a Star Wars fan for years, but when my dad finally convinced me to read the original, I was hooked. 

 

I'm surprised we don't have a Bene Gesserit or Honored Matres to this day if we have the Jedi and Sith faux religions already. 

My favorite fictional series ever.

 

On web forums where anonymity is needed, I sometimes use "Miles Teg."

Edited August 21, 2017 by Brian

[Starjumper]

1 hour ago, Earl Grey said:

Do you like Frank Herbert's Dune?  I was a Star Wars fan for years, but when my dad finally convinced me to read the original, I was hooked. 

 

I'm surprised we don't have a Bene Gesserit or Honored Matres to this day if we have the Jedi and Sith faux religions already. 

 

I loved Dune, it was a great book, and formative for me as it helped me to understand how religions work.  I also really liked how the Bene Gesserit and their abilities were presented.  I think probably there is no fake Bene Gesserit religion because it's always men who start religions, which are basically all fake, and it seem that such a religion as Bene Gesserit would need to be started by a woman.

 

Frank Herbert wrote some other really great books that you would like:  "Whipping Star", and the "Dosadi Experiment" is very good!

 

Another book that really helped explain how religions work is "Stranger in a Strange Land".

Edited August 21, 2017 by Starjumper
speeling - sentence structure

[Brian]

1 minute ago, Earl Grey said:

 

Heinlein! My favorite author in middle school!

 

...Perhaps I should create a science fiction thread in the rabbit hole later...

There are several Heinlein fans here, BTW.

 

I think Number of the Beast tied it all together (in a fun and over-the-top kind of way...)

[Brian]

3 minutes ago, Earl Grey said:

 

Heinlein! My favorite author in middle school!

 

...Perhaps I should create a science fiction thread in the rabbit hole later...

I think such a thread should be focused on discussing a single work or series because it will otherwise devolve into a "what about this one?" sort of thing.

[Starjumper]

13 minutes ago, Starjumper said:

 ...  and the "Dosadi Experiment" is very good!

 

The Dosadi Experiment is an exciting read and also great commentary on what is happening in the world today as far as the mass poisoning is concerned as well as presenting a kind of 'Matrix' view of people control.

Edited August 21, 2017 by Starjumper

[9th]

Yeah the Dune series is incredible.  Its insightful to an almost freakish degree in terms of extrapolating things into their own world.  Great stuff.  IIRC Herbert said he researched about 140 books before beginning to write it.. which is pretty crazy.  

[9th]

1 hour ago, WuDao said:

 

Your point and words were easy enough to understand, lol. I was curious about your apparent need to judge others, and find them lacking.

 

Thanks for your reply!

 

My need to judge others is no different than your own need to judge others.  Its also no more or less relevant to anything else other than the person in question who is making those judgements.  Perhaps you consider yourself above the need to judge others, but that would just be yet another lie you tell yourself to help you continue sleeping so soundly.

 

But yes, I find you lacking.  This is true.  However, people who simply stumble through their life in a state of self-imposed hypnosis cannot help it.  So you really cant be blamed for lacking.  And its not necessarily something that is always a permanent situation, although it usually tends to be for the vast majority of people.

 

So its a bit more nuanced than you might think, lol

[rene]

9 minutes ago, 9th said:

 

My need to judge others is no different than your own need to judge others.  Its also no more or less relevant to anything else other than the person in question who is making those judgements.  Perhaps you consider yourself above the need to judge others, but that would just be yet another lie you tell yourself to help you continue sleeping so soundly.

 

But yes, I find you lacking.  This is true.  However, people who simply stumble through their life in a state of self-imposed hypnosis cannot help it.  So you really cant be blamed for lacking.  And its not necessarily something that is always a permanent situation, although it usually tends to be for the vast majority of people.

 

So its a bit more nuanced than you might think, lol

 

Thank you for sharing your ideas. (-: