Taichi, Qigong, Neigong Advice Please!

[Awakener]

I'm a very cerebral person so when I'm passionate about something I have an intense desire to learn everything I can about something before proceeding to give myself a clear vision of the future. This has helped me in the past, but also hindered in some instances.

 

I've made considerable progress down the paths of developing the senses and becoming familiar with certain forms of meditation and energy work like Reiki, but now I'm focusing my energy into more diligent and stringent practices.

 

I want to pick up two styles of practices, one External (Probably Chen Style Taichi) and an Internal Practice (Neigong of some kind) so I can provide a very strong "as above, so below" action going on.

 

Of course, as a very hardy person with many experiences at this point, I want to get right to the strong, high quality stuff. My wife is pregnant and I feel a Very strong need to apply myself and gain some Serious Ground spiritually so I can guide my Wife and my future young ones and any souls who I find on my path along the way.

 

I am widely open to discussion, suggestion, and opinion and would like to know sources where I can find solid material I can use to begin my practices and hit the ground running! lol Just my personality. Very fiery. xD

 

And thank you!

Edited May 25, 2017 by Awakener

[Marblehead]

Caution:  Being tunnel-visioned can cause one to lose awareness of other things that are happening around them.

 

However, your goal seems proper.  I don't talk about practices so I likely won't post in this thread again.  Best Wishes!

 

[Awakener]

52 minutes ago, Marblehead said:

Caution:  Being tunnel-visioned can cause one to lose awareness of other things that are happening around them.

 

However, your goal seems proper.  I don't talk about practices so I likely won't post in this thread again.  Best Wishes!

 

 

Thank you for your words and advice. I will heed them and strive for a proper balance.

 

May I inquire as to the reason you don't talk about practices? Purely out of curiosity. I like to understand people and their views. I find that understanding others helps us to better understand ourselves.

[Marblehead]

16 minutes ago, Awakener said:

May I inquire as to the reason you don't talk about practices? Purely out of curiosity. I like to understand people and their views. I find that understanding others helps us to better understand ourselves.

Sure, I have few secrets.

 

Except for Tai Chi I have no practice I adhere to.  I don't know enough about the various practices to be able to speak with any level of knowledge or common sense.

 

Plus, practices are very specific regarding the individual, their needs, and their capabilities and capacities.  These things can be determined only by one-on-one discussions and observations.  And although I do not advise getting a teacher I try to not speak about the need for many, or most, to have a teacher.

 

My only advice would be to start out simple and see where the path take you.  If it seems "natural" for you then continue to more in-depth understandings and abilities.  If not, stop and find a better path.

 

[Awakener]

42 minutes ago, Marblehead said:

My only advice would be to start out simple and see where the path take you.  If it seems "natural" for you then continue to more in-depth understandings and abilities.  If not, stop and find a better path.

 

Very good advice. Thank you again for your words of wisdom.

 

Blessed Be.

[Fate]

Welcome!

 

I am excited to see someone taking their spiritual growth to heart! My wish for you is that you gain some non-serious ground as well spiritually so that you can love your wife and future children and nourish them on their path as well.

 

I'm also a fan of "all in one paths" because in the end they all converge at the center. It may be tempting at first to have a practice for each thing, aka "I do Taiji for my external body, meditate for my mind, chanting practice for emotions" etc etc. but at some point these will begin to converge as specially as your space for practice may be taken up by responsibilities. Then your practice may become a refuge for fun and relaxation than a 'serious' cultivation exercise.

[Awakener]

25 minutes ago, Fate said:

Welcome!

 

I am excited to see someone taking their spiritual growth to heart! My wish for you is that you gain some non-serious ground as well spiritually so that you can love your wife and future children and nourish them on their path as well.

 

I'm also a fan of "all in one paths" because in the end they all converge at the center. It may be tempting at first to have a practice for each thing, aka "I do Taiji for my external body, meditate for my mind, chanting practice for emotions" etc etc. but at some point these will begin to converge as specially as your space for practice may be taken up by responsibilities. Then your practice may become a refuge for fun and relaxation than a 'serious' cultivation exercise.

 

My Wife and future children are always my priority! lol She is equally interested in these things as myself, but she has less time for that at the moment. Also, I'm usually the one that combs the ether to find what's right for the family's future before introducing it. I hope one day to happily be practicing meditation with my children.

 

The "Serious Ground" bit is just my passionate heart wanting to catch up to my Wife's crazy advanced innate cultivation so that we can be in equal playing fields as parents. She's meandering on her path so that I can catch up. She doesn't do it intentionally but I feel guilty for holding her back. She can telepathically communicate with the spirit of our child even before she was pregnant but has no interest in cultivating further because she can't share it with me yet.

[Rakiel]

Where do you live? Some places don't have great offerings, some do.

 

As a beginner, I tried out a Chen-style class. It wasn't for me, not yet anyways because it is pretty complex. although all styles are complex in their own ways. I found a 37-form class which is nice because I can focus on learning only 37 postures. best of luck in your search

Edited May 25, 2017 by Rakiel

[Awakener]

3 minutes ago, Rakiel said:

Where do you live? Some places don't have great offerings, some do.

 

I live in Naples Florida. It's a good place to live but it's still growing. Mostly retired people here. lol

[Seatle185]

Well you might be happy to know that many good taiji classes will have elements of nei gong, and the external excercise you seek, some even nei dan. Like others have said there might not be need for more than one teacher. I personally found it pretty hard to find a teacher who only teaches nei gong by itself in my area. But i do beleive the good internal martial arts teacher will have a great curriculum for nei gong. Good luck in your journey. Also im not very familiar with your area but i would seek out groups of pratitioners and then ask them recomendations and where they are learning from, as sometimes there are great teachers in your area without a web presence. 

[dawei]

Keep following what unfolds in front of you.   Much of your description reminds me of me in terms of wondering where to go with energy practices.   At one time, I resigned that I was not going to go anywhere as I just couldn't find any open doors... then one day, I saw a flyer at a store on Taiji and everything from that moment till the present has simply shown itself.    I can't try and claim that is how it will work for everyone but I can simply encourage you to realize you may find a path at the least expected place. 

 

At one time, I was doing both Taiji and Medical Qigong.   I had to learn to turn on and off certain habit switches as they interfered with what each was trying to show me.   I eventually came to a place where it was not about what you turn off or on but what you simply naturally follow.  The 'ah-ha' moment was when I realized, Internal=External.     I had pursued these 'two' ideas and then within them, pursued more separation and compartmentalization of ideas when I need to let that all go and see it all as a singular occurrence.   Then after experiencing that, I could then again see the separateness as our mind perceives it.

[Awakener]

Yeah, I just started to realize that. I "knew it" but it hadn't sunken in yet, you know? My "ah-ha" moment was reading about SaiyaMan's Dao Yin Shu experiences about his Cup being full and spilling over and it was time to Drink before he can fill his cup anymore... I realized it was time for me to Drink from that which I have been given and BE that which I KNEW rather than trying to Know More so I can create a path for myself... Now that I have begun a regimented daily practice, I've begun experiencing growth again and it is very rewarding. I still research to learn more, but I make sure I practice what I know first.

[Spotless]

When your child is born after not too long they will go to bed for the night (hopefully - we got lucky that way) but will need to settle. During this time is a perfect time to meditate. I would settle my son around 8pm, sit and meditate for 1-3 hours.

 

I happened to also get up around 3:30 and meditate in his room until he woke up around 7am.

 

Putting your child to sleep and meditating while they settle in is a great way to need less sleep and have more patience.

[Awakener]

 

4 minutes ago, Spotless said:

When your child is born after not too long they will go to bed for the night (hopefully - we got lucky that way) but will need to settle. During this time is a perfect time to meditate. I would settle my son around 8pm, sit and meditate for 1-3 hours.

 

I happened to also get up around 3:30 and meditate in his room until he woke up around 7am.

 

Putting your child to sleep and meditating while they settle in is a great way to need less sleep and have more patience.

 

Yeah, since I've started meditating for roughly an hour every day, I've noticed I need less sleep and it's really nice because I always had this unconscious resentment towards sleeping because I was loosing out on 1/3 of my life, you know? I work at UPS so I get up around 3:30 as well so thank you very much for the advice, I'll Definitely use it!

[Barracuda1975]

In your case it would be the best choice to start Internal practices (Neikung). Qigong will yield negligent results. 

You need lots of energy. I recommend you to read Waysun Liao books  first and contact his notorious student Gary Clyman.

Basically, it is a shortcut to your fast development.

[qicat]

27 minutes ago, Barracuda1975 said:

In your case it would be the best choice to start Internal practices (Neikung). Qigong will yield negligent results. 

You need lots of energy. I recommend you to read Waysun Liao books  first and contact his notorious student Gary Clyman.

Basically, it is a shortcut to your fast development.

 

may I ask your length and depth of working with this? Qigong will yield negligent results if body, energy and mind do not work together. Basically, if you practice qigong and think about cupcakes, you just wasted your time. But if you practice qigong set/taichi/etc and trace your energy with movement and mind, the result will present itself. 

Yet you advice someone to skip one part and go directly to middle level stuff. With a new baby and lack of sleep and his wife not interested in sex I doubt he will be in a proper state of mind for the practice... Physical qigong however, might help at this stage of life...

 

p.s. have you ever wondered why kabbalah and other spiritual studies were advised for men who already "build a house, planted a tree and raised their son"? I think there are lots of wisdom in old teachings and guidelines... Perhaps seeking enlightenment at this stage of life ( new baby) shows escapism from reality? 

[Awakener]

18 hours ago, qicat said:

With a new baby and lack of sleep and his wife not interested in sex I doubt he will be in a proper state of mind for the practice...

 

I'd like to state that none of these are the case... My wife is 11 Weeks along in her pregnancy, I get plenty of sleep, and our libido is just fine. Not only that, I'm one of the rare few men who prefer romance over lust and am not controlled by the urges of my body. Before I knew it was actually a spiritual practice, I would choose to retain and not climax because it wasn't important to me, I didn't need to in order to feel satisfied. To that end, I don't feel assumptions like these without base are appropriate. 

 

18 hours ago, qicat said:

You advice someone to skip one part and go directly to middle level stuff.

 

Though I agree with your initial statements regarding the alignment and balance of our triune nature, I find messing not agreeing that I am skipping anything. When it comes to energy work, I'm not a novice.

 

Sometimes I'll ask people advice and they'll give me an advanced meditation to be careful with because it can be dangerous... only to find out that the meditation was actually the first meditation I ever learned and practiced exclusively for a long time which allowed me to develop my ability to sense energies and manipulate forces outside of myself. I didn't have a traditional path of growth so I am fairly far along in my practices with energy even though I have only just begun practicing Flying Phoenix Qigong. I haven't necessarily skipped any steps, I have just taken a different path.

 

I seek higher level forms of Qigong and Neigong because with a child on the way, I only have so much time before my time becomes very limited and I want to progress so that I can catch up to my Wife's innate spiritual development and when my child is old enough to begin meditating, to be able to be a spiritual leader for my family. 

 

18 hours ago, qicat said:

Perhaps seeking enlightenment at this stage of life ( new baby) shows escapism from reality? 

 

I see where you are coming from, but I seek enlightenment from a truly innocent place. I've kept my child's heart intact, even though I am 26 years old and most have had theirs destroyed long ago. I have a deep passion and love for Life Itself, Sharing this gift with others, and Serving Others. It is my calling to help others but right now, I have to help myself grow so that I can be in a position to help others.

 

Seeking Enlightenment for me is like a Child wanting to know what's inside of a Box. My fascination with what is inside the box isn't an indication of a lack of interest in stuff Outside of the Box, but a deep love for knowing what this world has to offer. I see the walk towards enlightenment to be a noble path of walking Life's Truest Purpose that can only be gained by truly Living Life... I don't believe enlightenment is even possible to be gained by someone who just wants to... escape... It's like asking someone to light a fire because you want to cool off... axiomatically, it just doesn't line up.

 

Enlightenment is seeing the world for what it truly is and becoming one with all things where as escaping is... separating yourself from all things. If one seeks escapism while striving for enlightenment, they are forever walking a road that can never be progressed, a path of illusions.

 

19 hours ago, Barracuda1975 said:

In your case it would be the best choice to start Internal practices (Neikung). Qigong will yield negligent results. 

You need lots of energy. I recommend you to read Waysun Liao books  first and contact his notorious student Gary Clyman.

Basically, it is a shortcut to your fast development.

 

I'll definitely look into that, thank you. I'm just having issues finding reliable material on Neigong. Thank you for the tips, I'll definitely look into them!

Edited June 13, 2017 by Awakener

[Gerard]

Hi,

 

Tai Chi is already internal and it's a complex Qigong  system. Your quest will be finding a competent and caring teacher, not a 'shiny peacock.' This isn't easy.

 

Good luck!

Edited June 20, 2017 by Gerard

[doc benway]

On 5/25/2017 at 4:39 AM, Awakener said:

I'm a very cerebral person so when I'm passionate about something I have an intense desire to learn everything I can about something before proceeding to give myself a clear vision of the future. This has helped me in the past, but also hindered in some instances.

 

I've made considerable progress down the paths of developing the senses and becoming familiar with certain forms of meditation and energy work like Reiki, but now I'm focusing my energy into more diligent and stringent practices.

 

I want to pick up two styles of practices, one External (Probably Chen Style Taichi) and an Internal Practice (Neigong of some kind) so I can provide a very strong "as above, so below" action going on.

 

Of course, as a very hardy person with many experiences at this point, I want to get right to the strong, high quality stuff. My wife is pregnant and I feel a Very strong need to apply myself and gain some Serious Ground spiritually so I can guide my Wife and my future young ones and any souls who I find on my path along the way.

 

I am widely open to discussion, suggestion, and opinion and would like to know sources where I can find solid material I can use to begin my practices and hit the ground running! lol Just my personality. Very fiery. xD

 

And thank you!

 

My recommendation would be to focus more on quality of local instruction and authenticity than specific method unless there is one that clearly clicks. If you are as much a purist and passionate as I am, there is almost nothing that is as exciting and rewarding as the human connection to a lineage through an accomplished and enthusiastic teacher. The only thing more powerful is the direct experience of the fruition of practice.

 

As far as what to practice, I study taijiquan, qigong, and neigong. They naturally support and enhance one another - they are a bit like nesting dolls with neigong in the center and taiji on the outside. Taijiquan is the most physically demanding (although martial qigong can be demanding). I use qigong mostly for healing qualities. Not sure where you like to classify zhan zhuang but standing is a practice worth considering as well, in and of itself (you'll get it in Chen taiji). Also, read a little about yi quan 意拳. I've had a taste and it is amazing. It is based on the principles of xingyiquan and taijiquan which help cultivate awesome strength, and integrates a much more spontaneous and un-fabricated practice experience.

 

I would suggest you start with one, really dig in for a while, and then add something else, if needed. Any of these disciplines is worthy of your full attention for a time. If you are very cerebral, consider starting with taijiquan (and check your intellect at the door!). It will take you more thoroughly into the body and be an excellent transition to more subtle arts. 

[RiverSnake]

Drop the intellect, you can practice this an hour everyday and start growing spiritually. 

 

 

Edited June 28, 2017 by OldSaint

[RiverSnake]

I'd also say that practicing Karezza with your wife as cultivation practice would probably be the healthiest thing possible for your marriage and family. 

[Awakener]

2 hours ago, OldSaint said:

I'd also say that practicing Karezza with your wife as cultivation practice would probably be the healthiest thing possible for your marriage and family. 

 

I honestly thought it was a type of Qigong or something but when I looked it up, I laughed out loud because this is a practice that I already employ and have used for several years and didn't know that it was a thing with a name all its own. I actually enjoy it more without the whole dramatic conclusion getting in the way. Plus, I get to show my wife love and passion without needing to take a break from cultivating and draining my jing.

 

9 hours ago, OldSaint said:

Drop the intellect, you can practice this an hour everyday and start growing spiritually. 

 

23 hours ago, steve said:

If you are very cerebral, consider starting with taijiquan (and check your intellect at the door!).

 

Sorry for any confusion but I realize now that Cerebral implies analytical and emotionless and that is actually very Not like me. I'm highly inquisitive out of a great love for life. I've managed to keep my child-like wonder intact somehow. I very much love deep, emotional, and impassioned musings of universal intricacies and spiritual truths alike. The only problem i have with my cerebral nature is that sometimes I turn to seeking knowledge rather than seeking internal treasures but I have gotten this under control recently.

 

23 hours ago, steve said:

 

My recommendation would be to focus more on quality of local instruction and authenticity than specific method unless there is one that clearly clicks. If you are as much a purist and passionate as I am, there is almost nothing that is as exciting and rewarding as the human connection to a lineage through an accomplished and enthusiastic teacher. The only thing more powerful is the direct experience of the fruition of practice.

 

As much as I would love this, my problem is that I live in a deadzone for cultivation. There isn't a community of cultivators down here. The biggest thing down here spiritually is Reiki and other energetic therapies but I realized cultivation is the missing ingredient to true healing.

 

23 hours ago, steve said:

As far as what to practice, I study taijiquan, qigong, and neigong. They naturally support and enhance one another - they are a bit like nesting dolls with neigong in the center and taiji on the outside. Taijiquan is the most physically demanding (although martial qigong can be demanding). I use qigong mostly for healing qualities. Not sure where you like to classify zhan zhuang but standing is a practice worth considering as well, in and of itself (you'll get it in Chen taiji). Also, read a little about yi quan 意拳. I've had a taste and it is amazing. It is based on the principles of xingyiquan and taijiquan which help cultivate awesome strength, and integrates a much more spontaneous and un-fabricated practice experience.

 

I will definitely keep these in mind! Thank you. Right now I am working on Flying Phoenix Qigong and Qibody Cultivation. I'll start branching out from there when I stop needing instructional videos to practice.

[dawei]

I'll come back in to comment...

 

Qigong: This is the simplest energy art to harness as it is simple and natural... you can feel energy from a tree or a person.  You can teach your wife and do pairs stuff... it is family friendly.

 

Taiji:  This is a long game thing... I might guess that most of the western folks who try this will never realize nor harness what it is intended to teach and provide.   You need a lifetime dedication to it.   I'd forget about it.

 

Neigong: This is a long game without any true outcome in most cases.   Unless you know you have past life understanding that this is your path for your future lifetimes,  you'll not realize much, if anything, in this lifetime.   

 

Focus on this life experience, unless there is clear sign of long game stuff.

[Wu Ming Jen]

María O. Baum
Golden Gate Community Center 4701 Golden Gate Parkway, Naples, Florida (239) 252-4180

 

I have no idea if this is a good school for what you are looking for. Maybe worth checking out Tai Chi, Chi Gung offered.