[DDJ Meaning] Chapter 15

[Stosh]

In old times the perfect man of Tao was subtle, penetrating and so profound that he can hardly be understood.
Because he cannot be understood, I shall endeavour to picture him:

He is cautious, like one who crosses a stream in winter;

He is hesitating, like one who fears his neighbours;

He is modest, like one who is a guest;
He is yielding, like ice that is going to melt;

He is simple, like wood that is not yet wrought;

He is vacant, like valleys that are hollow;

He is dim, like water that is turbid.
Who is able to purify the dark till it becomes slowly light?

Who is able to calm the turbid till it slowly clears?

Who is able to quicken the stagnant till it slowly makes progress?
He who follows these principles does not desire fullness.

Because he is not full, therefore when he becomes decayed he can renew.

 

If he IS,  then he is not the man of Old times. 

Crossing a river in winter , is not cautious , unless its frozen and therefore no big deal. You just trudge across. 

One who fears his neighbors , is likely to be hostile at a moments notice. 

Ice un-melted is still hard , ice that is actually melted, is yielding.

Wood unhewn has the great complexity of living things , and it is reduced in its chopping to some particular example of its original potential. 

The hemmed in valley fills its bounds. 

Water that is turbid is opaque and defined , you can actually see where it is. 

Distilled darkness is still dark , very very dark.

One cannot do anything to calm turbid waters.

There is nothing unprogressed  because there is 'nothing needing to be done'. 

Following principles, has an intended aim ,and therefore indicates desire. 

If one is not finished there's no need to restart. 

[Marblehead]

Well, that's a different perspective.  (I'm still trying to be without my own opinion so I will stop here.)

 

 

[Stosh]

20 minutes ago, Marblehead said:

Well, that's a different perspective.  (I'm still trying to be without my own opinion so I will stop here.)

 

 

The point is to understand the perspective of what has been written , I think he dodged the point , that this thing can still be seen in both perspectives ,, the issue remains whether he likes certain  presentations to others, or not. 

[Marblehead]

1 minute ago, Stosh said:

The point is to understand the perspective of what has been written , I think he dodged the point , that this thing can still be seen in both perspectives ,, the issue remains whether he likes certain  presentations to others, or not. 

Yeah, but I will remain on the side of action with caution which is what I feel the first two sections peak to.

 

But then adventurers often throw caution to the winds, don't they?

 

[Stosh]

46 minutes ago, Marblehead said:

Yeah, but I will remain on the side of action with caution which is what I feel the first two sections peak to.

 

But then adventurers often throw caution to the winds, don't they?

 

They, and us fools do.  

[Marblehead]

2 hours ago, Stosh said:

They, and us fools do.  

Yeah, been there, done that.

 

[Stosh]

Unmasked , the chaper reads as follows ,

 

 

Those who follow the Way, are simple obvious and easy to relate to. 
You can recognize who the sage is , because he appears as follows. 

He is carefree , knowing the earth is not going to suddenly open up and swallow him.
The way of the world is completely dependable. 

 

He is outgoing , because he befriends all.
 And does not treat neighbors like strangers. 

He is frank and sincere , because he is among his friends. 

 

He doesnt change his mind , until he has good reason. 
But once he does , the old form is forgotten., and he moves on. 

He is full of life and energy. 
He is a light in a dark forest. 

 

No one is perfect , nor can become what he is not. 

No one can change the way the world is, nor has life a destiny to fail at. 

Not to live this way is foolish,
 and such a one has not experienced his life to the brim.

 

Stosh 
 

[Marblehead]

Nice iteration Stosh.

 

 

[Sketch]

• Verse Fifteen

The good old ways were subtle, delicate, but no longer very well known. 

People kept themselves to themselves, and they were strong.

They had self control, like they were crossing a stream in winter.

Cautious, like they were afraid of bothering the neighbors.

Respectful, like guests.

They made themselves scarce, like melting ice. 

They were simple and useful, like a grain silo, 

or like a piece of wood with the bark still on, unprocessed, unshaped. 

 They were broad and open like a valley.

It is hard to see through muddy waters.They  learned to let them settle and had the practiced skill of maintaining their calm.

They had the ability to move through the green unripe world,To keep the trail clear.

They didn’t stockpile wealth, just made sure they had enough. They left wiggle room, and room to respond to changes and challenges.

 

[Taomeow]

I have always read this chapter as a set of taiji practice instructions.  Every single image can be tested for meaning and accuracy in tuishou (sparring).  They are accurate.    

 

Feng/English

 

15
The ancient masters were subtle, mysterious, profound, responsive. 
The depth of their knowledge is unfathomable. 
Because it is unfathomable, 
All we can do is describe their appearance. 
Watchful, like men crossing a winter stream. 
Alert, like men aware of danger. 
Courteous, like visiting guests. 
Yielding like ice about to melt. 
Simple, like uncarved blocks of wood. 
Hollow, like caves. 
Opaque, like muddy pools.

 

Who can wait quietly while the mud settles? 
Who can remain still until the moment of action? 
Observers of the Tao do not seek fulfillment. 
Not seeking fulfillment, they are not swayed by desire for change.

 

 

[Sketch]

My time exploring the language has me convinced that you are correct, that instructions on breath and movement are the key level of meaning, and that there are levels of meaning that only unfold relative to particular experiences within the context of breath and movement/stillness.