Breath vs Mantra meditation

[taoguy]

4 hours ago, C T said:

this is a function that, in my view, only a qualified master/teacher can impart with the greatest benefit to the initiate. 

 

One thing that I am able to highlight though is the importance of motivation in chanting.. to continuously refine one's intent behind the act of chanting. Mahayana chanting practice is ultimately aimed at strengthening one's resolve (to be of benefit to others thru removing blockages related to thoughts and words) thru the process of purification of sound. It is training in Right Speech basically. Chanting without fully understanding the finer aspects and principles will still be beneficial, but with the right guidance the benefit will be multiplied tenfold. There is also the danger of unknowingly chanting a 'secret' mantra which can be potentially harmful - which is why, in Vajrayana especially, there are restrictions put in place with respect to some mantras, not because anything other than to safeguard the welfare of the practitioner at a particular stage of the path.  

 

Very true. And just to add on, some mantras require 'empowerments' (I think there are three types) in order to be used. It's a highly secretive, or even formalized thing that taps into lineages, so that's why it's extremely strict.

 

I had an empowerment for Om Ami Dewa Hrih and I realized that there was a difference before reciting and after, but that may be placebo, I do not know, but I can feel a tangible joyful feeling in the heart. I can't reveal more than that. It is also worth going for empowerments by recognised, genuine tulkus because you tend to be in the presence of other unseen beings  I once smelt lotuses or jasmine-like smells in the air, as if someone was throwing flowers.

 

The ones that are safe to chant are generally Avalokitesvara or Chenrizig mantras. Most commonly is the Great Compassion Dharani/Mantra or the 6-word-syllable chant. I think you can still get empowerment for them as well, not too sure. I'm also not sure about the Vajrasattva ones, but you can do a search on them - be sure that the books have legit lineages and are by Rinpoches, etc. 

 

Other mantras like Surangama Mantra can require a person to be vegetarian and avoid the 5 spices, as well as follow the direct instructions of the Surangama Sutra itself - so you gotta read it completely too. If not the dharma-protectors (not the Buddhas!) can get angry and cause problems for the practitioner. 

 

Some require altars. Some powers vanish when you take onions or garlics, etc. So got to be careful before reciting them.

 

I don't think I'm being superstitious here at all because even Theravadan chants have showed great power in driving away evil spirits. It's just unseen to a majority of us.

 

The absolute safest one is propagated by Zen master Nan Huai Chin, known as the Zhunti mantra or Cundi mantra. The empowerment comes from the Cundi Mother Buddha herself after about 200,000 repetitions (or more depending on merit). It's a light empowerment/baptism through the crown.

[C T]

3 hours ago, taoguy said:

 

Very true. And just to add on, some mantras require 'empowerments' (I think there are three types) in order to be used. It's a highly secretive, or even formalized thing that taps into lineages, so that's why it's extremely strict.

 

I had an empowerment for Om Ami Dewa Hrih and I realized that there was a difference before reciting and after, but that may be placebo, I do not know, but I can feel a tangible joyful feeling in the heart. I can't reveal more than that. It is also worth going for empowerments by recognised, genuine tulkus because you tend to be in the presence of other unseen beings  I once smelt lotuses or jasmine-like smells in the air, as if someone was throwing flowers.

 

The ones that are safe to chant are generally Avalokitesvara or Chenrizig mantras. Most commonly is the Great Compassion Dharani/Mantra or the 6-word-syllable chant. I think you can still get empowerment for them as well, not too sure. I'm also not sure about the Vajrasattva ones, but you can do a search on them - be sure that the books have legit lineages and are by Rinpoches, etc. 

 

Other mantras like Surangama Mantra can require a person to be vegetarian and avoid the 5 spices, as well as follow the direct instructions of the Surangama Sutra itself - so you gotta read it completely too. If not the dharma-protectors (not the Buddhas!) can get angry and cause problems for the practitioner. 

 

Some require altars. Some powers vanish when you take onions or garlics, etc. So got to be careful before reciting them.

 

I don't think I'm being superstitious here at all because even Theravadan chants have showed great power in driving away evil spirits. It's just unseen to a majority of us.

 

The absolute safest one is propagated by Zen master Nan Huai Chin, known as the Zhunti mantra or Cundi mantra. The empowerment comes from the Cundi Mother Buddha herself after about 200,000 repetitions (or more depending on merit). It's a light empowerment/baptism through the crown.

Thank you for sharing your experiences, Taoguy. I have also many times caught whiffs of sweet scents similar to what you have described. Sometimes this can happen just by being around a realised spiritual friend (teacher). 

 

In the Nyingma tradition empowerment is not required for the Vajrasattva purification mantra. The 100 syllable mantra is indeed very powerful for the swift removal of obstacles. 108 reps is sufficient to bring about immediate tangible changes to outer and inner perceptions. The dakinis and buddhas begin to form an affinity with the chanter very quickly with enough practice. 

 

 

[roger]

On May 31, 2017 at 4:44 PM, Living said:

Focus on Breath vs Mantra which is a better meditation technique to develop concentration?. I would love to hear from people that have used both for a considerable time. Some people feel that mantra is something that you throw in from outside creating and promoting stories and illusions within the mind whereas when you focus on the breath you are not introducing anything unnecessary from the outside and that breath is natural. Some others think that mantra lets them go deeper in concentration meditation and mind whereas the focus on breath keeps them at the surface and aware of the body (which makes it difficult to go deeper). Yet others think that mantra is better because it will go with you the day you are without the body and the breath. As I said I would love to hear the perspective of experienced meditators who have used both techniques for a while and can compare them.

 

In TM, one doesn't use concentration. Yet, TM can greatly improve one's ability to concentrate. That's just TM, though. Concentrating on a mantra is also an effective technique.

 

For mindfulness of breathing, it's good to effortlessly bring your attention back to the breath whenever your mind wanders. You can eventually get very, very good at keeping your attention on the breath.

 

I do TM regularly, and occasionally mindfulness of breathing, and also choiceless awareness. But mainly I meditate in the way Fa Xin said- just sit there and be, without effort or a technique. I call it non-meditation.

 

[sageofthesixpaths]

Being also a dharma master, I can say that mantra is much easier for you or for everyone else. Breath is naturally more subtle and is more difficult to hold unto by a person as time goes by during meditation. When it comes to mantra, which mantra then? There are many choices. There are many things to consider. My advice is to choose one and stick to it. And if you would ask me how many hours you should chant? I would say, the more hours the better. Mantras have fruits along the way. If you chant them properly, you should obtain them. Unless there is something wrong with your practice. 

[yyitself]

On 31/05/2017 at 9:44 PM, Living said:

Focus on Breath vs Mantra which is a better meditation technique to develop concentration?. I would love to hear from people that have used both for a considerable time. Some people feel that mantra is something that you throw in from outside creating and promoting stories and illusions within the mind whereas when you focus on the breath you are not introducing anything unnecessary from the outside and that breath is natural. Some others think that mantra lets them go deeper in concentration meditation and mind whereas the focus on breath keeps them at the surface and aware of the body (which makes it difficult to go deeper). Yet others think that mantra is better because it will go with you the day you are without the body and the breath. As I said I would love to hear the perspective of experienced meditators who have used both techniques for a while and can compare them.

 

Namaste Living,

 

First of all, I want to thank you about the important questions that you are sharing here.

 

It's very important to share our experiences and leave here some suggestions for improvement of our sadhanas.

 

Focus on Breath or verbally or mentally vocalize a mantra can produce the same results. These methods were created to calm down your mind.  And why do you want to calm down the mind? To take you to YOU. To realize that there is a witness who either is aware of his breath or is carried away by the words that are being spoken through the mantra. What is certain is that it does not matter what method which you use but rather if you give yourself to your Self. That will make all the difference. Do it and you will see. 

 

 

[yyitself]

I leave here a mantra that I have done throughout the day when I do my chores.

 

I hope you like it.