Breath vs Mantra meditation

[Living]

Focus on Breath vs Mantra which is a better meditation technique to develop concentration?. I would love to hear from people that have used both for a considerable time. Some people feel that mantra is something that you throw in from outside creating and promoting stories and illusions within the mind whereas when you focus on the breath you are not introducing anything unnecessary from the outside and that breath is natural. Some others think that mantra lets them go deeper in concentration meditation and mind whereas the focus on breath keeps them at the surface and aware of the body (which makes it difficult to go deeper). Yet others think that mantra is better because it will go with you the day you are without the body and the breath. As I said I would love to hear the perspective of experienced meditators who have used both techniques for a while and can compare them.

[C T]

The efficacious nature of mantra recitation becomes evident only in the spacious, palpable silence that follows the chanting. 

 

Chanting removes subtle wind blockages and promotes evenness of breath, clarity of mind and aligns the heart. With these three in balance, concentration will arise effortlessly. 

[C T]

I would like to add that there are a variety of ways to chant a mantra - some are more result-prone than others. 

 

Chanting one rep of a mantra correctly is infinitely more beneficial than chanting a thousand reps devoid of knowledge of correct application. Chanting is a precise art which requires guidance for the serious practitioner - watching the breath is not so demanding. 

Edited June 1, 2017 by C T

[Fa Xin]

I'd say whatever method resonates with you. 

 

If if I tell you, "mantra creates stronger concentration", but you dislike doing the practice, you won't concentrate on it. 

 

I used to switch it up. Mantra for a few months, breath or vipassana for a year, back to mantras. 

 

Whatever I was passionate about got my focus. 

[Living]

3 hours ago, Fa Xin said:

I'd say whatever method resonates with you. 

 

If if I tell you, "mantra creates stronger concentration", but you dislike doing the practice, you won't concentrate on it. 

 

I used to switch it up. Mantra for a few months, breath or vipassana for a year, back to mantras. 

 

Whatever I was passionate about got my focus. 

 

Thanks for this and where are you now? What works for you and why?  and what does not work for you and why?

[Living]

5 hours ago, C T said:

I would like to add that there are a variety of ways to chant a mantra - some are more result-prone than others. 

 

Chanting one rep of a mantra correctly is infinitely more beneficial than chanting a thousand reps devoid of knowledge of correct application. Chanting is a precise art which requires guidance for the serious practitioner - watching the breath is not so demanding. 

 

Thanks CT.  What then is the way to learn to chant correctly ? Can you please give some guidance and/or point to a source ?

[C T]

2 hours ago, Living said:

 

Thanks CT.  What then is the way to learn to chant correctly ? Can you please give some guidance and/or point to a source ?

The ideal way to learn to chant correctly is to seek guidance from a teacher or chant master who will likely also kindle the lineage blessings for the initiate, and perhaps advice on which chant is best suited to a particular individual. Different mantras reverberates the channels and winds in different frequencies according to specific guttural and tonal sounds. 

[taoguy]

I find the important part to be the internal hearing when chanting. If I use the awareness to direct the function towards internal hearing when either chanting mantra aloud or internally, it seems to produce a far greater effect.

[Living]

1 hour ago, C T said:

The ideal way to learn to chant correctly is to seek guidance from a teacher or chant master who will likely also kindle the lineage blessings for the initiate, and perhaps advice on which chant is best suited to a particular individual. Different mantras reverberates the channels and winds in different frequencies according to specific guttural and tonal sounds. 

 

Thanks for your helpful post. Totally agree with you on the ideal way. But for some of us who are in less than ideal circumstances can you kindly provide some tips/guidance for effective chanting? We maybe able to benefit from your tips and guidance in the interim till we find the enlightened master with the blessed lineage. Meta..

[rex]

'Scuse me for sticking my nose in, not sure if you're having a laugh Living though there's 27 guidlines, or tips as you will, on mantra recitation here:

https://greatmiddleway.wordpress.com/2011/03/22/how-to-recite-mantra/

[Fa Xin]

5 hours ago, Living said:

 

Thanks for this and where are you now? What works for you and why?  and what does not work for you and why?

Right now I just sit in the moment and be. So no particular technique. who knows what I'll do in the future.

[Living]

2 hours ago, rex said:

'Scuse me for sticking my nose in, not sure if you're having a laugh Living though there's 27 guidlines, or tips as you will, on mantra recitation here:

https://greatmiddleway.wordpress.com/2011/03/22/how-to-recite-mantra/

 

Thanks for this link. Its a useful read. No i am not just having a laugh. Sincerely seeking way forward. I do like to smile though with friends but not at the cost of anyone. 

[doc benway]

17 hours ago, Living said:

Focus on Breath vs Mantra which is a better meditation technique to develop concentration?. I would love to hear from people that have used both for a considerable time. Some people feel that mantra is something that you throw in from outside creating and promoting stories and illusions within the mind whereas when you focus on the breath you are not introducing anything unnecessary from the outside and that breath is natural. Some others think that mantra lets them go deeper in concentration meditation and mind whereas the focus on breath keeps them at the surface and aware of the body (which makes it difficult to go deeper). Yet others think that mantra is better because it will go with you the day you are without the body and the breath. As I said I would love to hear the perspective of experienced meditators who have used both techniques for a while and can compare them.

 

There is no better or worse in an absolute sense, only better or worse for individual practitioners at specific times in their lives. What works for one doesn't necessarily work for another. You need to find what works for you. For some a mantra is supportive, for others a distraction.

 

In general, if you tend to have a lot of thoughts, images, and distractions in your mind while trying to practice, a mantra can be very helpful to drown out and replace the noise. If you tend to have a spacious, settled, and open mind, simply attending to breathing may be enough. No need to fill that space with anything, it is the space you are inviting during meditation in the first place.

 

Mantra is an integral part of the tantric path. For that a credible teacher is absolutely essential. 

[rex]

2 hours ago, Living said:

 

Thanks for this link. Its a useful read. No i am not just having a laugh. Sincerely seeking way forward. I do like to smile though with friends but not at the cost of anyone. 

You're welcome Living and sorry for the suspicion.

 

Watching the breath and mantra recitation can have the similar goal of quieting the mind at the beginning stages of practice by acting as objects for calm abiding. As the experience of practice deepens the still mind and mantra recitation can each relflect and compliment the other - from stillness mantra can proceed and mantra in turn can lead to stillness.

 

The subject of mantra is deep and profound and a subject unto itself. The same too with stillness.

[Miroku]

I think you could try for yourself and see what suits you the best. Maybe alternating between breath watching and mantra chanting could be a great way for you to develop your practice. At the very least chanting a mantra could help you integrate the meditation into your daily life as with mantra chanting you deal bit more with some sort of movement.

[Fa Xin]

I also found exploring some of the mantras, their meanings, deepened other aspects of my practice. For instance, researching the mani mantra lead me to the great books of Dilgo Khentsye Rinpoche and helped me to understand compassion. Searching YouTube for "om nama shivaya" lead me to listening to Krishna Das, which lead me to Ram Das. Which then lead me to my next "hit", the next teaching, the next book. 

 

the practice seems to deepen on its own if you let it take you where it will. 

[Sudhamma]

"Focus on Breath vs Mantra which is a better meditation technique to develop concentration?"

Follow the Teacher, The Buddha who began with Breathing Meditation. There are 40 meditation 'objects' in Buddhist Meditation, each with their specific objective. Begin with Breathing Meditation.

 

"Some people feel that mantra is something that you throw in from outside creating and promoting stories and illusions within the mind whereas when you focus on the breath you are not introducing anything unnecessary from the outside and that breath is natural."

Both techniques discipline the Mind as the ultimate goal. However, unhealthy dependence on mantras create a mental obstacle for future development of Faith, Knowledge and Wisdom unless, you can put them (mantras) aside after it served their purpose.

 

"Some others think that mantra lets them go deeper in concentration meditation and mind whereas the focus on breath keeps them at the surface and aware of the body (which makes it difficult to go deeper)."

As said earlier, The Buddha began with Breathing Meditation, not mantra chanting.  The use of Sound is one of the 40 meditation objects, not necessarily mantras. As one renowned Australian Buddhist monk once advised, use the words 'coka cola' as a mantra and you still get the same effect.

 

"Yet others think that mantra is better because it will go with you the day you are without the body and the breath."

What goes together with you to the next  life is not mantras, but your karma. Meditation creates a discipline for your Mind to be aware of your ensuing thoughts, words, and deeds after reacting with a situation. How you react depends upon your prejudices and experiences as you perceive the situation. Being aware of your thought-formation helps to bring about peace and harmony to those around you. Keep the 5 precepts for they ensure that you would reap good karma now in this life as well as in the next. The force of karma will propel you to the quality of your next birth.

 

"As I said I would love to hear the perspective of experienced meditators who have used both techniques for a while and can compare them."

Just go and enroll into a Buddhist Sunday class to weed away misconceptions, otherwise, start reading basic Buddhism. Don't jump into the deep end of the pool without knowing what Buddhism is about. There are three parts in this journey, 1. gain knowledge and wisdom into what is 'Right', 2. put in effort and develop confidence and faith, and 3. mental concentration to rid oneself of mental toxins, fetters and to bring out the buddha-in-you, Don't go into 3, without the first two.

 

Just my humble suggestion to you.

 

[onelotus]

On 5/31/2017 at 7:10 PM, C T said:

 

Chanting one rep of a mantra correctly is infinitely more beneficial than chanting a thousand reps devoid of knowledge of correct application. Chanting is a precise art which requires guidance for the serious practitioner - watching the breath is not so demanding. 

please expound on the art of chanting mantra correctly!!  thank you!!!

[thelerner]

I agree with those who say work with what resonates with you.   Ones practice doesn't haven't be either or.   Still, seems to me everything other then a quiet mind is kind of a crutch (good ones) but still keeping you from the hard work of facing and learning to control the monkey mind. 

 

While I'll enjoy and practice chant and guided meditations, to me the real work is letting breath meditation fade into emptiness and balancing there. 

[Sudhamma]

My little understanding of mantras: it is a two-fold, one on the sound level and its vibrancy. To achieve it, correct pronunciation is essential. The second is the 'thought' which centers on visualization of the deity with its shape and colors that synchronise with the verbalising. Well, tell me if I'm wrong.

[Spotless]

On 5/31/2017 at 6:01 PM, C T said:

The efficacious nature of mantra recitation becomes evident only in the spacious, palpable silence that follows the chanting. 

 

Chanting removes subtle wind blockages and promotes evenness of breath, clarity of mind and aligns the heart. With these three in balance, concentration will arise effortlessly. 

I've never considered Chanting and Mantra recitation related.

[taoguy]

My understanding of mantras is the following:

 

1. Mantras serve as a way to 'tie up' the discriminatory mind so that it cannot produce further bright or dark 'karma' by reacting to the egoic mindstream. Instead of engaging the crazy mind-stream of perceptions and sensations, the mind is actively engaging the mantra. Instead of allowing it to amplify in karmic effect for example, we do the Vajrasattva 100-syllable purification mantra. True practice is like the Pureland practice - continuously reciting even when doing daily chores, settling down the mind at the same time.

 

2. Mantras are to be matched with the breath and said internally if possible. If done correctly, the breath should calm down and the entire mental state should become still, especially if done in everyday life.

 

3. Mantras have an effect that only high-level Bodhisattvas are able to describe in mechanism (low-bhumi ones also can't!). But in gist, mantras allow some kind of connection between the mantra and the being called.

 

I wouldn't say mantras are completely different from the breath. But mantras deal with the 8th alaya consciousness and the 5 senses, as compared to breath meditation which focuses on gong-fu, working on the 6th and 7th consciousnesses.

Edited June 12, 2017 by taoguy

[Spotless]

Quote from Sudhamma:

 

"As said earlier, The Buddha began with Breathing Meditation, not mantra chanting.  The use of Sound is one of the 40 meditation objects, not necessarily mantras. As one renowned Australian Buddhist monk once advised, use the words 'coka cola' as a mantra and you still get the same effect."

End Quote

 

These would be my words as well.

For the engineers (those that believe in directing and control this is not precisely true) but for those seeking to Awaken and with this intent - the above is true.

 

Intenal Mantra use is entirely different and not related to Chanting. 

Chanting can use mantras but from the get-go in this conversation the word Chanting was introduced as though it was naturally a part of the definition of Mantra as used in the original post (Breath vs Mantra). 

 

The use of mantras in meditation does not require in depth teaching and one will find it quite helpful in the beginning and possibly for a very long time. Coka Cola would be fine though something simpler is nice and the ancient Om is very good.

 

The original poster asked for our perspectives on breath vs mantra in meditation - unless things have changed way beyond my current use of these words it was asking about internal awareness of breath and internal use of mantra.

 

With this in mind, both are of great value and both are tools - particularly in the beginning when learning to settle into real meditation. 

 

Breath awareness  greatly facilitates moving out of mind - and it greatly facilitates embodiment - and eventually it greatly facilitates (embodiment) as internal energies become known and then very well known. The internal energies and awareness of them may expand so much so that the physical is by far the less real less robust and less "fixed".

 

Mantra helps to settle the mind - and in the practice the mantra becomes elongated - very very elongated so that a mantra may go from an OOOOOOOOOOOMMMMMMMMMM of say 20-40 seconds to an OM of several pages - days. One can be in a meditation that is 10 or 15 hours and the same mantra is still going - not repeating but still sounding.

 

One will naturally come to this without a teachers aid.

 

At some point breath awareness ceases to a great extent as the seat in the middle of head become the residence. This will be superceeded several times again with other expansions.

 

Breath is generally misunderstood - frequently by the teachers and almost always in the interpretations of masters who have written about it. This is primarily true because 99.999999999999999% of students reading the material think they understand it prior to experiencing it - the translations barely even point to the reality.

 

Nearly everyone thinks they understand the no-breath state and most meditators believe they have experienced it. Quit the opposite - most do not Breath enough and most have never come close to the no-breath state.

 

Not breathing enough is a major stumbling block to meditation - is a leading cause of trancing during meditation.

 

Chanting verbally externally is a leading cause of detour because it is almost always trance inducing and often Ecstatic Trance inducing - in which case the addiction to it is generally quick and hard to shake. Fun and with some benefits - but if you wish to Awaken and are interested in Enlightenment it is generally not helpful - trance and living our lives in trance is why we are not Awake. It can have some positive effects and for some for a time it can be quite helpful (generally those that do not like it) but many things can have "some positive effects" and not be particularly helpful in certain endeavors.

 

Back to meditation and Breath vs Mantra:

 

In the very long run breath will increasingly be with you - it will transform from the physical to the energetic to a motion of the whole well beyond the body - it will become no-breath.

 

Mantra will find its place and then be discarded in a sense - yet every time I hear the word I can hear the resonance still running.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Spotless]

On 6/1/2017 at 1:36 AM, C T said:

The ideal way to learn to chant correctly is to seek guidance from a teacher or chant master who will likely also kindle the lineage blessings for the initiate, and perhaps advice on which chant is best suited to a particular individual. Different mantras reverberates the channels and winds in different frequencies according to specific guttural and tonal sounds. 

If Chanting is something you wish to pursue then CT has framed it pretty well.

 

It certainly is not necessarily a detour and regarding the winds and channels - in general the nadis and fine energies of the bodies - Chanting particularly the Tibetan varieties are quite good. Most of it is all westernized and the western teachers tend to be pretty clueless in these things.

Edited June 12, 2017 by Spotless

[C T]

7 hours ago, onelotus said:

please expound on the art of chanting mantra correctly!!  thank you!!!

this is a function that, in my view, only a qualified master/teacher can impart with the greatest benefit to the initiate. 

 

One thing that I am able to highlight though is the importance of motivation in chanting.. to continuously refine one's intent behind the act of chanting. Mahayana chanting practice is ultimately aimed at strengthening one's resolve (to be of benefit to others thru removing blockages related to thoughts and words) thru the process of purification of sound. It is training in Right Speech basically. Chanting without fully understanding the finer aspects and principles will still be beneficial, but with the right guidance the benefit will be multiplied tenfold. There is also the danger of unknowingly chanting a 'secret' mantra which can be potentially harmful - which is why, in Vajrayana especially, there are restrictions put in place with respect to some mantras, not because anything other than to safeguard the welfare of the practitioner at a particular stage of the path.