Is the USA now a rogue state?

[Jetsun]

The USA is now in a small group of rogue nations who don't care about the future of the planet, environmental catastrophe is potentially a much more serious threat than nuclear war yet the biggest polluter in history is backing out from helping to clear up its mess. It could be time the rest of the planet starts considering the USA a "rogue state", hijacked by oligarchs putting personal profit above the welfare of the planet. If it were a smaller less powerful nation the rest of the world might start talking about intervention on behalf of the greater good. 

[Marblehead]

No.  People in Japan and China have to wear protective masks in order to breathe.  Americans do not.

 

The USA has always been, until recently, a rogue nation.  That is how we became the most powerful nation on the planet.

 

Human population growth is what is ruining the planet.  That is happening in Asia and the Middle East, not the USA.

 

 

 

[Jetsun]

1 hour ago, Marblehead said:

No.  People in Japan and China have to wear protective masks in order to breathe.  Americans do not.

 

The USA has always been, until recently, a rogue nation.  That is how we became the most powerful nation on the planet.

 

Human population growth is what is ruining the planet.  That is happening in Asia and the Middle East, not the USA.

 

 

 

 

Human population growth is slowing in all industrialised countries, and in some like Japan and some European countries there are dangers of decline without immigration, (which is a principal reason for the migrant crisis) 

 

99.9% of credible scientists agree that climate change is a thing and most agree that there is enough evidence that mans influence on it is a threat to the future of humanity, or at least that it isn't worth the gamble. Even North Korea are on board, they only people who don't seem to think it exists are the Republican party. Some of them say that God will take  a care of it and Trump believes the paranoid notion that it is all a Chinese plot. The lunatics are running the asylum!

 

The people who are going to get rich out of this don't care as they won't be around to face the consequences. They are relics of the fossil fuel era trying to grasp hold of their power, which is inevitably doomed as clean energy becomes cheaper, but they will do whatever they can to stay in control.

 

 Being the most powerful nation on earth is worse than useless if you are going to use that power to screw up the world and take a dump on your own front lawn then refuse to help clean it up. 

[Brian]

The Paris Accord is fraudulent.  It is a power grab which uses bogus "science" (the facts and the history show the "big lie" for what it is) as the basis to siphon billions of Dollars out of the economies of nations like the US in a global redistribution scheme that lines the pockets of major financial & political players while doing virtually nothing to address the "problem" on which the whole deal is predicated.

[Taoist Texts]

33 minutes ago, Jetsun said:

Even North Korea are on board,

And all the useful innocents too!

[Aetherous]

1 hour ago, Jetsun said:

99.9% of credible scientists

 

Where did that statistic come from? Is it legitimate?

[Aetherous]

5 hours ago, Jetsun said:

hijacked by oligarchs putting personal profit above the welfare of the planet

 

I think this is what we see as the problem with the Paris Accord. Apparently it's going to be renegotiated so it's not such a waste of money, and actually accomplishes something.

 

 

http://www.dailywire.com/news/12519/lomborg-paris-climate-accord-wont-change-climate-aaron-bandler

Edited June 2, 2017 by Aetherous

[Brian]

9 minutes ago, Aetherous said:

 

Where did that statistic come from? Is it legitimate?

No, it isn't.

 

BTW, in the mid-1970s, the near-unanimous proclamation of "credible scientists" was that manmade global cooling was an undeniable looming catastrophe of epic proportions and that we were only a couple decades away from the next ice age unless the world was forced into unity and government focused on solving this problem.

[Kar3n]

It is little more than global welfare. Trump said, "America first" months ago. When will people begin to recognize he is doing exactly what he said he would do, putting America and American people first by not imposing new or inflated taxes to cover the costs of the Agreement?

[Aetherous]

On the other hand, because I like both sides of the story, apparently the MIT calculations were misconstrued or misunderstood by the Administration...

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-paris-agreement-science-research-wrong-misunderstood-latest-a7768296.html

 

http://news.mit.edu/2016/how-much-difference-will-paris-agreement-make-0422
 

MIT speculates that temperatures could raise by 5 degrees in 2100, and reducing emissions could help offset that by a few degrees.

[Jetsun]

43 minutes ago, Aetherous said:

 

Where did that statistic come from? Is it legitimate?

 

I was talking about Global warming in general, very few legitimate scientists disagree with it, some just disagree with the man made influence

[Aetherous]

5 minutes ago, Jetsun said:

I was talking about Global warming in general, very few legitimate scientists disagree with it, some just disagree with the man made influence

 

I think even that's questionable.

[Jetsun]

Saying it's global warfare just sounds like propaganda from the fossil fuel industry. It is a fact that solar power is taking over and increased spending in renewable energy will actually increase jobs in the USA even if the richest US oil barons lose out to Chinese investors, so how is supporting the fossil fuel industry putting America first? It is putting the 1% richest first at the expense of regular working Americans as well as the rest of the world. 

[Brian]

I find it interesting that Big Government, Big Media and Big Business (the "Progressive" Trinity) are all in favor of this unprecedented consolidation & centralization effort (including corporations like Chevron and ExxonMobil).

 

The people who will be most hurt by this sort of scheme are those who struggle to make ends meet now -- especially those who wear protective gear like steel-toed boots and leather gloves when they go to work.  When Obama said that, under his plan, "energy costs would necessarily skyrocket," who do you imagine would gain from skyrocketing energy costs and who do you think would suffer?

 

As in so many things, follow the money.

Edited June 2, 2017 by Brian

[Brian]

Seriously, stop and think about this for a moment...

 

BP, Chevron, ExxonMobil, Royal Dutch Shell, DuPont, Monsanto, Dow Chemical, Unilever, General Mills, Kellogg, Johnson & Johnson -- these are just a few of the supporters of the Paris Agreement.

 

Hmmm...

[RiverSnake]

Yes to everything Brian just said. Look past the thin veneer of titles. There was nothing Patriotic about the Patriot Act and there is nothing "world saving" about the Paris Accords. 

Edited June 2, 2017 by OldSaint

[Jetsun]

"The Republicans who urged Trump to pull out of Paris deal are big oil darlings"

 

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jun/01/republican-senators-paris-climate-deal-energy-donations

 

Nearly all those opposed to the Paris agreement are massive beneficiaries of the oil , gas and coal industries. Do you really think Trump and the Republicans are going up against these interests who fund their party? Come on they are doing their bidding. Follow the money 

[Brian]

$10 million spread across the campaigns of 22 Senators over three election cycles?  How much did they donate to those who support the Paris Accord over the last 12 years?

 

Yawn...

 

http://www.greenpeace.org/usa/campaign-updates/hillary-clintons-connection-oil-gas-industry/

Edited June 2, 2017 by Brian

[ralis]

2 hours ago, Jetsun said:

 

Human population growth is slowing in all industrialised countries, and in some like Japan and some European countries there are dangers of decline without immigration, (which is a principal reason for the migrant crisis) 

 

99.9% of credible scientists agree that climate change is a thing and most agree that there is enough evidence that mans influence on it is a threat to the future of humanity, or at least that it isn't worth the gamble. Even North Korea are on board, they only people who don't seem to think it exists are the Republican party. Some of them say that God will take  a care of it and Trump believes the paranoid notion that it is all a Chinese plot. The lunatics are running the asylum!

 

The people who are going to get rich out of this don't care as they won't be around to face the consequences. They are relics of the fossil fuel era trying to grasp hold of their power, which is inevitably doomed as clean energy becomes cheaper, but they will do whatever they can to stay in control.

 

 Being the most powerful nation on earth is worse than useless if you are going to use that power to screw up the world and take a dump on your own front lawn then refuse to help clean it up. 

 

 

The responses to your new thread are the same old conservative mindset rhetoric based on fear, ignorance of solid climate research and money. Doesn't surprise me one bit.

 

The biosphere is a complex dynamic system which is sensitive to initial conditions and in this case, CO2. That is an undeniable fact and no amount of propaganda and cherry picked documents will change what is occurring at this very moment in the environment.

 

Thanks for posting!

 

 

[Brian]

9 minutes ago, ralis said:

 

 

The responses to your new thread are the same old conservative mindset rhetoric based on fear, ignorance of solid climate research and money. Doesn't surprise me one bit.

 

The biosphere is a complex dynamic system which is sensitive to initial conditions and in this case, CO2. That is an undeniable fact and no amount of propaganda and cherry picked documents will change what is occurring at this very moment in the environment.

 

Thanks for posting!

 

 

Let me make sure I got this straight...

 

Those who say "Ignore all the evidence of scientific fraud and political opportunism! This is a crisis and the world is doomed --DOOMED, I SAY!!! -- if we don't act NOW!!!" are the rational ones not basing their position on fear & ignorance but those saying "let's not be hasty, something seems off here and the rhetoric isn't matching up with the details" are without exception ignorant, fear-mongering, brainwashed, science-denying rubes?

 

Really?!?

Edited June 2, 2017 by Brian

[ralis]

13 minutes ago, Brian said:

Let me make sure I got this straight...

 

Those who say "ignore all the evidence of scientific fraud and political opportunism! This is a crisis and the world is doomed --DOOMED, I SAY!!! -- if we don't act NOW!!!" are the rational ones not basing their position on fear & ignorance but those saying "let's not be hasty, something seems off here and the rhetoric isn't matching up with the details" are without exception ignorant, fear-mongering, brainwashed, science-denying rubes?

 

Really?!?

 

You are claiming that you are in the rational group? Climate scientists are irrational? I have suggested several sources for further study and it seems you have chosen to disregard even a look at Korzybski or Strogatz.

 

You are in the category of denying AGW!

 

 

Edited June 2, 2017 by ralis
Edit

[Brian]

Food for thought (no doubt the fevered dreams of brainwashed lackeys of the fossil fuel mega companies (who, inconveniently, actually support the Paris Accord...))

 

http://www.isthereglobalcooling.com/

http://www.davidpratt.info/warm.htm

https://wattsupwiththat.com/2013/03/01/global-cooling-compilation/

 

That last one, entitled "The 1970’s Global Cooling Compilation – looks much like today" is particularly entertaining.

 

The current doomsday-crying is nothing new, you see.

 

Here are a few more worthwhile links:

https://www.aei.org/publication/18-spectacularly-wrong-apocalyptic-predictions-made-around-the-time-of-the-first-earth-day-in-1970-expect-more-this-year-2/

http://dailycaller.com/2015/05/04/25-years-of-predicting-the-global-warming-tipping-point/

http://thefederalist.com/2015/04/24/seven-big-failed-environmentalist-predictions/

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/430380/al-gore-doomsday-clock-expires-climate-change-fanatics-wrong-again

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/427838/paris-climate-talks-obama-rhetoric?target=topic&tid=1916

Edited June 2, 2017 by Brian

[Jetsun]

3 hours ago, Brian said:

The Paris Accord is fraudulent.  It is a power grab which uses bogus "science" (the facts and the history show the "big lie" for what it is) as the basis to siphon billions of Dollars out of the economies of nations like the US in a global redistribution scheme that lines the pockets of major financial & political players while doing virtually nothing to address the "problem" on which the whole deal is predicated.

 

Why would countries like the traditional allies of the USA , such as many European countries, Japan, South Korean etc want to strengthen countries like China and India at the expense of the USA ? It makes no sense strategically or economically for that to be a priority.

 

It reeks of paranoia that this is some kind of global conspiracy targeted at weakening the USA. It is far more likely that people are looking at the science and worried about the environment that their grandchildren are going to inherit.

[windwalker]

7 hours ago, Jetsun said:

The USA is now in a small group of rogue nations who don't care about the future of the planet, environmental catastrophe is potentially a much more serious threat than nuclear war yet the biggest polluter in history is backing out from helping to clear up its mess. It could be time the rest of the planet starts considering the USA a "rogue state", hijacked by oligarchs putting personal profit above the welfare of the planet. If it were a smaller less powerful nation the rest of the world might start talking about intervention on behalf of the greater good. 

Why are you posting propaganda without looking into facts and what it was actually about. Would you rather the u.s. release It's control over its own resources to outside countries. I wouldn't but maybe you and others would.  

 

You also might want to check how this was implemented, it was not done in a democratic process by the former Administration.  If you're good with having centralize power command and control in one person there are many countries in which this is the way they operate that others and you can go to.  

 

 

Edited June 2, 2017 by windwalker

[gendao]

3 hours ago, Jetsun said:

Human population growth is slowing in all industrialised countries, and in some like Japan and some European countries there are dangers of decline

Uh, what are the "dangers" of population decline?  Restoring the environment - that is getting ravaged by WEIRD lifestyles & population growth?

Quote

coral researchers say the reefs of the past will probably never be seen again because human activity has devastated them

Reefs suffer simultaneously from dredging, over-harvesting, pollution, sewage, sediments and steadily increasing temperatures

Human activity has already dramatically altered many of the planet’s coral reefs in recent years

the world now faces “a fundamentally different reality [where] it is no longer possible to restore coral reefs to their past configurations.

 

Edited June 2, 2017 by gendao