London Bridge

[Brian]

Just now, Apech said:

 

"The objection of the British to Kurdish self-rule sprang from the fear that success of an independent Kurdish area would tempt the two Arab areas of Baghdad and Basra to follow suit, hence endangering the direct British control over all Mesopotamia."

 

Ah! fully justified then

We can't be having people just up and be independent, just like that!  I mean, if we allow one group to be independent, soon they'll all be doing it.  How can we maintain proper control if people think they have freedom to live their lives in... in... well... in freedom?!?

[Apech]

Just now, Brian said:

We can't be having people just up and be independent, just like that!  I mean, if we allow one group to be independent, soon they'll all be doing it.  How can we maintain proper control if people think they have freedom to live their lives in... in... well... in freedom?!?

 

 

Yes!  let's not back project modern values to 100 years ago tho.  Everyone was at it in those days.

[Chang]

The creation of borders on anything other than racial or tribal lines is doomed to end in bloodshed.

[Apech]

3 minutes ago, Chang said:

The creation of borders on anything other than racial or tribal lines is doomed to end in bloodshed.

 

 

Sadly true.

[Chang]

7 minutes ago, Apech said:

 

 

Sadly true.

 

And the Cultural Marxist social experiment of mass immigration of an alien culture and religion into Europe is doomed to end in bloodshed - which has already began and will increase in intensity as time goes on and the number of migrants grows.

 

I rest my case.

[Michael Sternbach]

7 hours ago, Apech said:

 

 

Being peaceful will not stop those with intent to kill you.  Sorry but just examine history.  If you want peace you have to be in a position of strength.  We have to be realistic.

 

You do have to stop those commiting those acts of violence - if and when you can. But you will be fighting symptoms, not causes.

[Michael Sternbach]

On 9.6.2017 at 3:49 PM, Chang said:

As always your posts appear the epitome of reason and sound common sense.

 

Not to forget, they are beautiful too!

 

On 9.6.2017 at 3:49 PM, Chang said:

But appearance is not always reality.

 

 

What you fail to accept is that Islam is simply not happy to follow its own way and happily co-exist with followers of other religions or no religion at all.

 

 

Muslims are told to fight unbelievers until they are either dead, converted to Islam, or in a permanent state of subjugation under Muslim domination.

 

 

I know from previous posts that you are fully aware of this fact and yet you still suggest that the west is in some way to blame for what Muslims are honour bound to do - subjugate, convert or kill unbelievers. The most that far right groups can expect to achieve is spur Muslims on to a more fundamentalist manner of following their Prophets wishes.

 

Taking many centuries old books too literally and trying to implement all that they are saying in the modern world indeed usually leads to disaster. For instance, there are also passages in the Bible (even in the New Testament) strongly condemning non-believers.

 

Now most people in the West have been imbued with Christian values, but luckily, the majority of them are not following the ancient doctrines to the letter. In fact, the ones really adament about all of them are few and far between.

The same generally applies to Muslims as well. I am aware that there are orthodox groups representing extreme positions in certain countries. But fact is, most Muslims are neither religious fanatics nor susceptible to hate preachers. This is true especially for the ones who have had a significant degree of exposure to Western culture - such as the immigrants that you believe are bent on undermining our societies.

 

On 9.6.2017 at 3:49 PM, Chang said:

I do not doubt that you are good man Michael and your posts remind me of a prayer I repeat often. "May God protect us from good men."

 

Once again, your knowledge of what I am amazes me. Or should I say, your ability to project your own shadow onto me and others. It is so typical of conspiration theorists.

 

Myself, I make no claims of being "good" - I am too aware of my shadow self for that.

[Apech]

19 minutes ago, Michael Sternbach said:

 

Not to forget, they are beautiful too!

 

 

Taking many centuries old books too literally and trying to implement all that they are saying in the modern world indeed usually leads to disaster. For instance, there are also passages in the Bible (even in the New Testament) strongly condemning non-believers.

 

Now most people in the West have been imbued with Christian values, but luckily, the majority of them are not following the ancient doctrines to the letter. In fact, the ones really adament about all of them are few and far between.

The same generally applies to Muslims as well. I am aware that there are orthodox groups representing extreme positions in certain countries. But fact is, most Muslims are neither religious fanatics nor susceptible to hate preachers. This is true especially for the ones who have had a significant degree of exposure to Western culture - such as the immigrants that you believe are bent on undermining our societies.

 

 

Once again, your knowledge of what I am amazes me. Or should I say, your ability to project your own shadow onto me and others. It is so typical of conspiration theorists.

 

Myself, I make no claims of being "good" - I am too aware of my shadow self for that.

 

Survey of British Muslim attitudes

 

Quote

How do you react to the news – the result of a major BBC survey - that 11 per cent of British Muslims sympathise with fighting against the West? That 20 per cent of them believe Western liberal society can never be compatible with Islam? That 11 per cent feel that organisations which publish images of the Prophet Mohammed deserve to be attacked?

 

Edited June 10, 2017 by Apech

[Brian]

38 minutes ago, Apech said:

 

Survey of British Muslim attitudes

 

 

"Some 51 per cent do not believe that Muslim clerics who preach for violence against the West are out of touch with mainstream Muslim opinion."

 

 

[Apech]

 

Quite long but worth the while.