That thing about patience ... again...

[qicat]

I swear I asked this question before here, but could not find the thread...

So...

please fellow Bummers, remind me again what is it about patience, how do you cook and what do you eat it with. Any references to TTJ, i-Ching, classics, etc. ( i.e old texts) are welcome. Personal experiences are welcome as well. How do you train patience? If you need to do something, how do you do it with patience ( if the world is crashing on you), how do you do "patience" but not "check-out", "indifferent" or "lethargic"...

 

meow

 

p.s. winner gets a cookie. 

[Michael Sternbach]

One approach I like is to focus on the Lower Dantian. Breathe into it. Feel your center. Relax your shoulders. Stand firmly on the ground (if you happen to be standing). Then stretch your back and neck. Align your whole body. Feel you are at home in yourself, and in control of the circumstances.

 

Awaiting cookie now. It's not a Brekkies, is it???!!!

[Gerard]

Patience is developed through:

 

1. Persistence

2. Discipline

3. Correct training method that works for you and not because someone or everyone else is doing it

4. Solitude. Time alone in the natural environment, fully relaxed and slowly letting go of everything. Watch the workings of nature, you'll realise how much in tune you are with it rather than that what society wants: the constant search of never satisfied needs. This will cause a lot of impatience in the mind.

 

The Shen/Heart/Spirit is a 'hungry creature' always wanting something. We need to train it with a firm hand.

 

Happy practice dear friend.

[Marblehead]

Hi Qicat,

 

The mental condition of being patient is losing ground in the Western world.  Everybody (well, many) want it all and they want it now.  They at driving themselves crazy.

 

That old story about timing is everything.  Yeah, there is a "best" time for everything.  If our mind is all clutter with in-needed thoughts we likely won't even notice when the "best" time arrives.

 

Clarity of mind is very important here.

 

Line 1,  Chapter 60 of the Tao Te Ching: (Henricks)

 

1. Ruling a large state is like cooking small fish.

 

If we constantly mess with it (the large state or small fish) it will fall apart.

 

Same thing in our personal life.  Keep messing with it and things will fall apart.  

 

Sure, some things need attending to as soon as possible.  But other things, those that will not get worse over time, can be acted on when the time is right.  Most times our intuition will tell us when it is time to act upon something.

 

Everything matters but nothing really mattes.  The world isn't going to fall apart if I don't do the dishes immediately after I finish eating.

 

[AussieTrees]

I don't like fishing anymore,lost the patience for it.

This is happy for the fish,that like to swim.

i don't like cooking anymore,lost the patience for it.

so we eat less.

patience takes patience,what the

take a slow walk from your back door to any usual destination

then can you slower again next time

count the flowers did you see the yellow ones

if you missed them need to slow up

 

years ago when still a young boy,we had rats living under our avery

sometimes these rats would overpopulated and sometimes kill and eat the birds

so we learned patience,we would get a piece of old cheese and place it about three or four inches

just outside the rat hole

then we would get a chair sit on it and watch the rat hole,sitting watching holding a slug gun,being as quiet as possible

for as long as it tookfor a rat to show it's interest in the cheese,we did this a least once a day for many days in a row

dispatching many rats using cheese and patience

very rarely we would get no show,these were the longest hours of entertainment for a young boy

 

[Marblehead]

Well, you had stupid rats too.  They were supposed to learn from the others' mistakes.

 

[QiBody]

You know what they say, "What is the reward of patience?"  "More patience." 

 

When spirit and breathing

        stay together,

keeping their clarity

        and naturalness is

called “not forgetting”.

        Going along with

 their clarity is      

        called “not forcing.”

Not forgetting,        

        not forcing,     

               quietly,  gently,  

                                 the breath is vigorous

                       and       

                                          the mind is free.. 

[doc benway]

The way I work with impatience is to first notice it, that very awareness is the key. Once noticed, it is fully felt - in body, mind, words, action, outcome, ... all of it. Then I look at the one who is having the experience and when I see clearly, the impatience is OK. There may be reasons, there may not. When the subject is connected with at a more fundamental level than the emotions and explanations, there is liberation - nothing to hold onto. The peace is always there. It is the subject that obstructs and so gets primary attention in this method, not the object.

[qicat]

14 hours ago, steve said:

The way I work with impatience is to first notice it, that very awareness is the key. Once noticed, it is fully felt - in body, mind, words, action, outcome, ... all of it. Then I look at the one who is having the experience and when I see clearly, the impatience is OK. There may be reasons, there may not. When the subject is connected with at a more fundamental level than the emotions and explanations, there is liberation - nothing to hold onto. The peace is always there. It is the subject that obstructs and so gets primary attention in this method, not the object.

 

but what do you do with that energy? When you are impatient, there is an energy surge, I noticed it. Is this what Sifu trying to show me? Get that energy and do something with it instead of being blinded by it? 

 

Clueless kitty

[qicat]

and here is cookies for all of you!

[Marblehead]

19 minutes ago, qicat said:

 

but what do you do with that energy? When you are impatient, there is an energy surge, I noticed it. Is this what Sifu trying to show me? Get that energy and do something with it instead of being blinded by it? 

 

Clueless kitty

I think you are on to something.  Yes, thee is that energy.  It's Yang dominate energy.  It wants to do something.  Yin has to tell it to mellow out or find a way to release the energy such that it doesn't effect other people.

 

[QiBody]

I notice when I am impatient, it feels like I am being blocked, but in a particular direction. If breathing and sighing do not dissipate then perhaps keep the energy flowing, but in another direction that is open and affirming. I had 4 kids so impatientience was a normal day. 

Has something got the kitty by the  toe? Nice Cookies! Thanks

[doc benway]

16 minutes ago, qicat said:

 

but what do you do with that energy? When you are impatient, there is an energy surge, I noticed it. Is this what Sifu trying to show me? Get that energy and do something with it instead of being blinded by it? 

 

Clueless kitty

 

I don't do anything with the energy, that is sort of the point. Certainly you can harness and transform that energy using breath, body movement, and so forth; but this particular approach is to allow the problem to liberate effortlessly through recognizing the nature of the problem and the one having the experience. It's simple but not easy and it does take work and experience to become proficient. 

 

The key is in allowing ourselves to experience that energy with full awareness and connection. Feel it in the body, in the thoughts and emotions, in our response; feel it fully without judgement or analysis. Feel the need to do something about it and just let that be there, rest in the experience fully. We learn to host the fullness of that experience. Then we look directly at the subject of the experience. Looking at the subject is an interesting thing. We can look and look and there really is nothing to find other than over-identification with a role in a relationship and unsatisfied expectations.

 

A big part of this method is learning to allow things to be as they are and seeing that things are fine, even when things are not exactly as I would like them to be. It is my expectations that are causing the problem, not the external circumstances. If I can let go of the one who is creating the expectations, I can theoretically be OK regardless of the circumstances. If you can change the circumstances, by all means do it; but when you cannot, there is no reason to punish yourself. 

 

There are specific exercises and techniques that are useful with this method. For example, when I mentioned 'seeing clearly', there is a very specific way of looking that can be cultivated. It is seeing without all of the baggage of the self - expectations, concepts, judgement, etc... It's often referred to as nakedly seeing. All of the baggage is created by the mind and all of that is the source of the problem.

 

[QiBody]

Yeah, what that guys says! Beautifully expressed Steve. Love the one who is impatient without recourse or judgement. 

[thelerner]

You know what teaches me patience.  Counting my breaths to a 100.  It's slow, tedious.. my mind rebels but its a good teacher. 

[Stosh]

How would one measure patience ? 

When I was little , waiting till Christmas morning seemed a long time. Now they come and go , but can I say that this is an improvement ? or simply having less expectation and hopes for fun.

 I went on a trip the other day , on a boat , and it was to leave the dock at 600 or so , and we wouldn't get back till the afternoon... well I thought some folks had enough luggage food and water to go a week at sea.

I just had a couple liters of water, I tend to just strip my requirements down and forgo things rather than lug stuff around,, ( which could be frugality or laziness- dunno)  but ,,  I thought to myself , "Just  how soon-often , does someone need to eat? ... days get divided into meals , and as that clock strikes a mealtime ,and there's this idea that pops up that eating is needed.  

So I imagine,  much of the idea of impatience revolves around what a clock says ,, that is to say ,,  'What makes one think one is being impatient , do you even need " fixing"  ?'  

One can be of sound mind , having a lot of healthy enthusiasm , or , be programmed to do things at times, and so I guess that one has to evaluate the validity of ones motives,  to decide if their impatience really needs adjusting. 

[QiBody]

I think the most impatient demonstration I have ever heard, seen, felt is a tea kettle (the whistling kind) come to a boil on the stove. That sound and the steam are so single mindedly focused with pure intent at being relieved from the heat of the burner. To me it feels like the kettle is wholeheartedly impatience and I am moved to action. Without that insistent whistle, I'd forget the tea and ruin another perfectly good tea pot. As our friend says above, is impatience always something that requires transformation?

Such a great question qicat!

[Stosh]

That actually was a prompting question and not necessarily rhetorical. 

[Marblehead]

17 minutes ago, Stosh said:

That actually was a prompting question and not necessarily rhetorical. 

Well, I know that if it ain't broke you don't have to fix it.

 

[Stosh]

5 minutes ago, Marblehead said:

Well, I know that if it ain't broke you don't have to fix it.

 

Quite right, but if I understand your point .. Quicat may not be in need of more patience , but may indeed still feel like she is short of it , ,, and if that is counterproductive ,, then potentially that would be something left to rectify , No? besides,, I didn't offer to fix anything , I wanted to know why she thought she should consider herself impatient ( as in , having some negative value) 

[Marblehead]

Yeah, regarding the problem solving technique the first step is to identify the problem.  But even prior to that we should ask, "Is there really a problem?"  This can be a challenge because we are trying to view the objective subjectively.

 

 

 

 

[Brian]

One thing about patience -- you can't rush it.

 

[QiBody]

patient

noun

1.a person who is under medical care or treatment.

2.a person or thing that undergoes some action.

3.Archaic. a sufferer or victim.

adjective

4.bearing provocation, annoyance, misfortune, delay, hardship, pain,etc., with fortitude and calm and without complaint, 

anger, or the like.

5.characterized by or expressing such a quality: a patient smile.

6.quietly and steadily persevering or diligent, especially in detail or exactness: a patient worker.

7.undergoing the action of another (opposed to agent ).

 

By definition the word does not seem to carry  a very passive feeling.  Seems to imply an effort ?

[Marblehead]

Responding to Shredem:

 

Yeah, I think that speaks to the saying, "A watched pot never boils."

 

Edited June 9, 2017 by Marblehead

[Marblehead]

An example:

 

I have a microwave in my kitchen.  Some frozen foods I put into it require several minutes (10 - 15) to prepare.  I have a stool in the middle of my kitchen that I patiently sit on while waiting for the minutes to pass.